Darth Bane Runs The Gauntlet!

Exactly, shatterpoint is way overrated, and really, I see no way of Mace winning this.

Kopekz thought he might be the sith'ari (the sith's chosen one) aka the ultimate sith and perfect/near immortal being after only just one conversation with Bane. Bane was untrained at this point, Kopekz hadn't seen any displays of the force from Bane, and he knew who powerful sith were (he knew of people such as Darth Revan, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow), yet he still believed that Darth Bane could possibly become the most powerful of all of them, so clearly he sense that the darkside within Bane was on the next level.

Githany believed his power was beyond the level of pretty much any jedi or sith master when he had only received a few months worth of training. The jedi and sith during those times were pretty uber (most martial order of sith, had been in constant war with the jedi for hundreds of years..), this speaks for quite a lot.

Kaan, the leader of the BoD was scared shitless of him before he had ever even met him; this was based purely on descriptions of his power, and Bane scared the crap out of him.

When he was 18, he was able to instinctively choke his father to death, which greatly speaks for how prodigious he was, and how strong in the force he was.

He once lost his temper, and was able to instinctively project his fury on an entire room full of people, and drive them all wild with fury; that speaks for truly how strong he was in the darkside.

He pretty much mastered force lightning after just 1 hour of having learnt the technique, and was even able to create a miniature storm. By BotS, after having grown much more powerful, he would likely be able to replicate this to much greater effect.

He was able to release a wave of energy that was able to collapse the entire 20 story Rakatan Temple, and the temple wasn't even hit by the entire attack (it wasn't hit by the portion that hit Kas'im).

He was able to effortlessly choke Quordis to death like he was a child in seconds, and Quordis was one of the top sith in the BoD, the head of the academy in fact.

He was able to control the power of over 20 sith lords combined with his own and direct it to destroy an entire world. This speaks quite a lot for his mastery and control by that point.

He was able to pull a moon out of orbit, and pretty casually too given he did it while riding on top of a flying beast.

He knew every move and sequence of the saber staff perfectly (and those are the moves and sequences for all 7 forms, and not just the regular forms, but Kas'im's perfected forms), and thus would be able to wield one to the same effect as Kas'im. He would be able to switch between these different forms, giving him a somewhat unique style.

Sirak, the top apprentice at the BoD Academy was incredibly powerful; he was able to move in blurs (those are Yoda speeds), had mastered multiple forms..and Bane was able to completely outclass him in saber combat; his shatterpoint ability was so great that he was able to sense weaknesses in Sirak's style seconds after the duel began, and constantly throughout the battle, but held back because he wanted to humiliate Sirak, and tire him down first, and towards the end, was able to tool him with one masterful manoeuvre; his movements were faster than the eyes of everyone present could see, so fast that it seemed like time had stopped for them. In other words, he was able to toy with and outclass someone as strong as Sirak, had the ability to end the fight in seconds, and constantly throughout the fight, and was able to move at speeds faster than the eyes of trained force user could see towards the end of a tiring duel. His speed here is incredible, and is much much greater by BotS.

He as good as defeated Kas'im in a duel; Kas'im was basically The master of the lightsaber; he mastered every from, every primary art of the saber, and then furthered and perfected each form and constantly refined his skills, and Kas'im was only able to defeat him when he used a style that was alien to Bane.

While he was choking Quordis to death, Quordis begged him to stop and let them fight with sabers so that he could die with honour, and Bane said that he would be able to just as easily defeat him with a saber, and Quordis seemed to know this. This implies that Bane would have been able to defeat him in seconds with a saber, and Quordis was one of the top sith of a pretty impressive order. It also shows that his saber skills were likely on par with his force abilities.

Bane possesses the orbalisk armour, which constantly pumps dark side energies and adrenaline into his body, and strengthens his muscles and keeps them constantly flexed. It's also completely immune to the cutting power of even a lightsaber, and covers his entire body, except for his head (the only area where he can be physically affected), and a few joints where the gaps are too small for a lightsaber to pass through anyway. It also heals non lethal wounds instantaneously.

His knowledge base was also pretty considerable too;

1. He pretty much knew the entire BoD archives inside out. The archives were huge, and contained much information regarding sith history and lore.

2. He had received most of the teachings that the then current Masters could offer via Githany. Nothing too great, but still something.

3. He had gained most of the knowledge (the most important knowledge at least) found inside Darth Revan's holocron. Darth Revan probably has the single greatest knowledge base with the exception of Darth Sidious, whatever he later found in Nadd's tomb, and the Ancients .

4. He was able to access a jedi holocron. This would give him a great understanding of lightside powers as well as darkside ones.

5. He was able to plunder the tomb of Nadd's holocron, and gain access to his holocron. This source of knowledge, by Bane's own admission, was even greater than Revan's, and gave him the power to 'play with gravity and orbits like a child might play with coloured balls'.

Until Mace can do that^, I see no reason as to why he would beat Bane.

How does the 'cutting power' have anything to do with it?

Mace's battle on Dantooine was confirmed specifically in the databank and he can lunch six punches before someone can even blink...way faster than Baney boy.

@ allfg

You must remember that what happened to Darth Sidious when he fought against Mace. Mace would have defeated him, if Anakin would not have helped Sidious.

His Vaapad and Shatterpoint abilities are what actually makes him deadly against Sith Lords. He is a unique Jedi in this sense.

Bane might be more powerful then Mace. But you should note that Sidious is also more powerful then Mace and still this gave him no advantage.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How does the 'cutting power' have anything to do with it?

Mace's battle on Dantooine was confirmed specifically in the databank and he can lunch six punches before someone can even blink...way faster than Baney boy.

Because if a lightsaber can't cut through something, Mace certainly isn't going to be punching through it. Use your head?

And I think you need to read through what I said again, the story and many aspects of the cartoons are canon, however the skills and abilities of the jedi are completely inconsistent with the movies. As is his launching 6 punches before his opponent could blink. However I really don't see how that, as unrealistic as it is, is even faster than speeds that Bane can move at. Remember, Bane, while still a student, could move at speeds so fast that time seemed to stop for everyone else, and that he was simply a blur to the eyes of trained force users who would naturally have superior reflexes. This was also at the end of a long and tiring duel. By BotS, as I’m sure you’ll agree, Bane is much stronger in the force. Judging by the extra experience he has received (over a year), and the more knowledge he has received (Revan’s holocron, Nadd’s holocron and a jedi holocron), as well as the power surge he received from draining that family on Ambria, I’d say it’s safe to say that he’s at least 5 times more powerful with the force (I’d even go as far as to say 10 times as powerful, but whatever). His force speed would likely increase by the same amount too, so that’s at least 5 times faster. And it doesn’t stop there, his orbalisks make him even faster.

1. They constantly pump adrenaline into Bane’s body, which would make him much faster, much more energetic, and grant him much greater reflexes.

2. They constantly inject darkside energies into Bane, which can be channelled into Bane’s muscles to make them stronger, which in turn would make him much faster.

3. They constantly pump up Bane’s muscles and keep the constantly flexed, which would leave the same result as in 2.

Bane is definitely much faster than Mace, there’s no point in arguing it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@ allfg

You must remember that what happened to Darth Sidious when he fought against Mace. Mace would have defeated him, if Anakin would not have helped Sidious.

His Vaapad and Shatterpoint abilities are what actually makes him deadly against Sith Lords. He is a unique Jedi in this sense.

Bane might be more powerful then Mace. But you should note that Sidious is also more powerful then Mace and still this gave him no advantage.

@S_W_LeGenD.

1. Sidious outclassed Mace, and held back from killing him, and let Mace beat him. I've argued this a hundred times, and it's pretty obvious. He didn't even force a force duel, which if Bane does, Mace would be screwed.

2. Bane is much more powerful than RotS Sidious, especially in saber combat.

3. Shatterpoint is overrated. Read what I and Spidervlad have been saying.

4. Vaapad is the one thing Mace has going for him, however Bane's saber style would also be alien to Mace Windu anyway, so they would both possess the same advantage here. There's also the fact that Vaapad is no better against darksiders than other forms, people seem to think that Vaapad is extra strong against darksiders, and have completely blown one line in the RotS novelisation out of proportion.

Originally posted by allfg
Exactly, shatterpoint is way overrated, and really, I see no way of Mace winning this.

[b]Kopekz thought he might be the sith'ari (the sith's chosen one) aka the ultimate sith and perfect/near immortal being after only just one conversation with Bane. Bane was untrained at this point, Kopekz hadn't seen any displays of the force from Bane, and he knew who powerful sith were (he knew of people such as Darth Revan, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow), yet he still believed that Darth Bane could possibly become the most powerful of all of them, so clearly he sense that the darkside within Bane was on the next level.

Githany believed his power was beyond the level of pretty much any jedi or sith master when he had only received a few months worth of training. The jedi and sith during those times were pretty uber (most martial order of sith, had been in constant war with the jedi for hundreds of years..), this speaks for quite a lot.

Kaan, the leader of the BoD was scared shitless of him before he had ever even met him; this was based purely on descriptions of his power, and Bane scared the crap out of him.

When he was 18, he was able to instinctively choke his father to death, which greatly speaks for how prodigious he was, and how strong in the force he was.

He once lost his temper, and was able to instinctively project his fury on an entire room full of people, and drive them all wild with fury; that speaks for truly how strong he was in the darkside.

He pretty much mastered force lightning after just 1 hour of having learnt the technique, and was even able to create a miniature storm. By BotS, after having grown much more powerful, he would likely be able to replicate this to much greater effect.

He was able to release a wave of energy that was able to collapse the entire 20 story Rakatan Temple, and the temple wasn't even hit by the entire attack (it wasn't hit by the portion that hit Kas'im).

He was able to effortlessly choke Quordis to death like he was a child in seconds, and Quordis was one of the top sith in the BoD, the head of the academy in fact.

He was able to control the power of over 20 sith lords combined with his own and direct it to destroy an entire world. This speaks quite a lot for his mastery and control by that point.

He was able to pull a moon out of orbit, and pretty casually too given he did it while riding on top of a flying beast.

He knew every move and sequence of the saber staff perfectly (and those are the moves and sequences for all 7 forms, and not just the regular forms, but Kas'im's perfected forms), and thus would be able to wield one to the same effect as Kas'im. He would be able to switch between these different forms, giving him a somewhat unique style.

Sirak, the top apprentice at the BoD Academy was incredibly powerful; he was able to move in blurs (those are Yoda speeds), had mastered multiple forms..and Bane was able to completely outclass him in saber combat; his shatterpoint ability was so great that he was able to sense weaknesses in Sirak's style seconds after the duel began, and constantly throughout the battle, but held back because he wanted to humiliate Sirak, and tire him down first, and towards the end, was able to tool him with one masterful manoeuvre; his movements were faster than the eyes of everyone present could see, so fast that it seemed like time had stopped for them. In other words, he was able to toy with and outclass someone as strong as Sirak, had the ability to end the fight in seconds, and constantly throughout the fight, and was able to move at speeds faster than the eyes of trained force user could see towards the end of a tiring duel. His speed here is incredible, and is much much greater by BotS.

He as good as defeated Kas'im in a duel; Kas'im was basically The master of the lightsaber; he mastered every from, every primary art of the saber, and then furthered and perfected each form and constantly refined his skills, and Kas'im was only able to defeat him when he used a style that was alien to Bane.

While he was choking Quordis to death, Quordis begged him to stop and let them fight with sabers so that he could die with honour, and Bane said that he would be able to just as easily defeat him with a saber, and Quordis seemed to know this. This implies that Bane would have been able to defeat him in seconds with a saber, and Quordis was one of the top sith of a pretty impressive order. It also shows that his saber skills were likely on par with his force abilities.

Bane possesses the orbalisk armour, which constantly pumps dark side energies and adrenaline into his body, and strengthens his muscles and keeps them constantly flexed. It's also completely immune to the cutting power of even a lightsaber, and covers his entire body, except for his head (the only area where he can be physically affected), and a few joints where the gaps are too small for a lightsaber to pass through anyway. It also heals non lethal wounds instantaneously.

His knowledge base was also pretty considerable too;

1. He pretty much knew the entire BoD archives inside out. The archives were huge, and contained much information regarding sith history and lore.

2. He had received most of the teachings that the then current Masters could offer via Githany. Nothing too great, but still something.

3. He had gained most of the knowledge (the most important knowledge at least) found inside Darth Revan's holocron. Darth Revan probably has the single greatest knowledge base with the exception of Darth Sidious, whatever he later found in Nadd's tomb, and the Ancients .

4. He was able to access a jedi holocron. This would give him a great understanding of lightside powers as well as darkside ones.

5. He was able to plunder the tomb of Nadd's holocron, and gain access to his holocron. This source of knowledge, by Bane's own admission, was even greater than Revan's, and gave him the power to 'play with gravity and orbits like a child might play with coloured balls'.

Until Mace can do that^, I see no reason as to why he would beat Bane. [/B]

Good god Noobaris, you've copied and pasted this argument so many times already after it being defeated, it's nearly sad. This is seriously a waste of space, and bandwidth. And I suppose you added new bullshit like Bane's alleged age.. This isn't even worth attempting to refute, since it already was.

Originally posted by allfg
@S_W_LeGenD.

1. Sidious outclassed Mace, and held back from killing him, and let Mace beat him. I've argued this a hundred times, and it's pretty obvious. He didn't even force a force duel, which if Bane does, Mace would be screwed.

Yes, you've argued this a hundred times, and lost a hundred times. You still seem to think that trying to make an argument equates to victory. Unfortunately for you and your piss poor debating skills, Lucas said Mace overpowered him, so you have lost your 101st time. Congrats Noobaris.

[quote]2. Bane is much more powerful than RotS Sidious, especially in saber combat.

3. Shatterpoint is overrated. Read what I and Spidervlad have been saying.

4. Vaapad is the one thing Mace has going for him, however Bane's saber style would also be alien to Mace Windu anyway, so they would both possess the same advantage here. There's also the fact that Vaapad is no better against darksiders than other forms, people seem to think that Vaapad is extra strong against darksiders, and have completely blown one line in the RotS novelisation out of proportion. [/B]

Okay, a few thing about the shatterpoint/orbalisk situation:

1) The cutting power of a lightsaber is due to energy, and orbalisks may have a resistance to that energy (the way cortosis weave does), but that does not make them stronger or harder than durasteel, which Mace can apparently punch through. Meaning in terms of physical force, orbalisks could easily be more fragile than durasteel.

2)Of course any idiot can figure out that Bane's face is an opening, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence (who knows what they are talking about) can also see that:

3) Mace could find a shatterpoint that isn't his face. Shatterpoint is in no way useless in this fight. He could hit Bane and the knee, and have it split his femur like a twig or something. The man can tap a diamond (I repeat: tap), and have it shatter into a million pieces. With a full swing, powered by his force augmented strength and speed, using Vaapad, the most powerful form, he could break Bane.

4) One of the Stupidest things I've seen:

Originally posted by Spidervlad
shatterpoint only anaylzes the weaknesses, it doesn't give one the ability to still get to that weakness.

Someone has no idea what the Hell they are talking about. Yes, Shatterpoint analyzes weakness, and gives them the opportunity to capitalize on it. Do you know what Shatterpoint is? It is the force telling you where to hit, and if you take that attack, they're done for.

Now for a few things that may not have to do with that situation, but are relevant to the fight.

1) Mace has easily shown to be faster than Bane, but, if you want to argue otherwise, it really won't matter. Mace takes the dark side that his opponents use to augment their speed, and uses it as his own, meaning, he gets just as much of a boost in speed and strength and such as they do.

2) Mace is on par with Yoda (the most powerful Jedi, pre-Luke), who is as powerful as Sidious, and Mace beat Sidious in lightsaber combat. Relevance? Sidious > Bane (That is a fact, but the margin can only be determined by feats, where Sids trumps Bane).

3) Mo' fukin' Vaapad. Bane has been taught patters of attack and defense to fight Jedi. Here, he is up against a style he has never seen, which happens to be completely unpredictable, and also happens to be the most powerful style. Bane tries to attack him with rage, he gets all that back in his face. If he doesn't, he gets his ass handed to him.

4)
Mace beat Asajj.
Mace beat Sora.
Mace killed Jango freaking Fett speedy quick... without using force powers.
Mace punked Quinlain.
Mace beat Greivous a few times. (Lightsaber, force crush, force... speeder to the body)
Mace took on Dooku and Dooku called for reinforcements to get away.
Mace stopped an avalanche with the force.
The whole Sidious thing.

There is a lot more, but... meh. Basically: Watch Clone Wars, read a few comics on SW Timeline, and Read Shatterpoint .

And despite all that, I'm willing to give Mace this after a tough match. Bane is too physically impressive and skilled to be a pushover, even for Mace.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Good god Noobaris, you've copied and pasted this argument so many times already after it being defeated, it's nearly sad. This is seriously a waste of space, and bandwidth. And I suppose you added new bullshit like Bane's alleged age.. This isn't even worth attempting to refute, since it already was.

That's right, I copied my earlier argument, and what? It's better than what you do, which is copying other people's arguments. And FYI, this has never been refuted, but please, feel free to try, I like it when dumbasses step up to me.

Yes, you've argued this a hundred times, and lost a hundred times. You still seem to think that trying to make an argument equates to victory. Unfortunately for you and your piss poor debating skills, Lucas said Mace overpowered him, so you have lost your 101st time. Congrats Noobaris.

Oh my days, you are about to get owned.

The facts are:

1. Palpatine was dominating the entire fight; murdering 3 jedi masters in seconds, and Mace couldn't do a damn thing to prevent it, and putting Mace, an aggressive fighter on the defencive. He was clearly dominating the fight, it's kinda surprising that Mace was able to disarm him period, let alone just as Anakin entered the room. Coincidence? I think not. Remember, this is a universe where 'there is no such thing as luck or coincidences'. The timing was just too damn good to be true. The most likely explanation is that Palpatine had sensed Anakin coming, and knowing all about Mace's shatterpoint gift, had left an opening for Mace to disarm him like he did, leaving Anakin in a position where it seemed as if Mace was attempting to assassinate an unarmed prisoner.

2. There’s the fact that Palpatine fought much better against Yoda than he did against Mace, and it’s no like there’s a valid reason for him to not fight as well against Mace as he did against yoda, other than him going easy on Mace.

3. Palpatine was a master manipulator, probably the best ever and his foresight was incredible (it was stated in LoE that he was gifted enough to have access to "streams" of potential futures, and used his intellect to manipulate one into coming into fruition). It was not beyond Palpatine's intelligence and foresight to orchestrate such a thing. I mean he had been duping the jedi for years.

4. We know that Palpatine faked being weak in the force, is it that far off to assume that he faked the lightsaber part too, especially considering how perfect the timing was? Also, need I remind you that Palpatine clearly had Mace at one point; his lightsaber was stretched out against his chest, yet he chose not to finish him off. To ignore this is pure fanboyism; that's visual proof that Palpatine was holding back against Mace.

QED.

And you do realise that Mace overpowering Sidious doesn' necessarily dispute that Sidious was holding back, and let Mace win, right?

Arguing against facts is your fortay, so no need to poke fun at you after reading this crap. Go back to the drawing board.

And copying people who are smarter/more original/funnier than yourself is your "fortay".

Nobody cares for your opinion because it doesn't fit into your beliefs. Canon is canon, the end.

Why the fvck do you constantly come up with this whack shit? 'Canon is canon'? What the fvck does that have to do with anything? Do you even know what you're talking about? Please Sexy, how about you stick to cheerleading Advent and Ac's arguments, because debating really isn't your thing.

Bane's saber style? What would that be? Oh right you don't know. There's nothing "Alien" about Bane's saber style,

Yes, there is. Firstly, he knows every move and sequence to the saberstaff perfectly, and switching up between these during combat would give him a unique style. Secondly, those are the moves of Kas'im's furthered forms, which are beyond the standard 7 forms that Mace would be familiar with.

in fact he wasn't even known to be a good saber duelist.

"While he was choking Quordis to death, Quordis begged him to stop and let them fight with sabers so that he could die with honour, and Bane said that he would be able to just as easily defeat him with a saber, and Quordis seemed to know this. This implies that Bane would have been able to defeat him in seconds with a saber, and Quordis was one of the top sith of a pretty impressive order. It also shows that his saber skills were likely on par with his force abilities."

This, coupled along with his other saber related achievements proves you wrong. Isn't it hard always being wrong?

He knew Kas'im's moves backwards and forwards and still lost.

1 thing I will say that is good about you is that you don't seem to be a liar. Therefor (this is where the good stuff ends), the only thing I ca assume is that you're actually retard. Now get this straight, at the point in time when Bane was familiar with Kas'im's moves, he virtually won. It was when Kas'im pulled out a weapon and style that was unfamiliar with Bane that he lost. Get it right.

Vaapad IS strong against dark siders, but with your logic, everything is exaggerated, blown out of proportion, or flat out wrong, if it doesn't fit in with your beliefs. Nice job going from a piss poor debater, to looking like a jackass arguing against facts.

I'm loving the strong argument you coupled along with these fist grade level insults. 🙂

Okay insults don't help, they just ruin your credibility when you insult someone like Sexy. Anyway:

I don't have a problem with most of the things on your list (other than the over-glorified spin you put on everything). However, it's still not enough to take on Windu. He's just not that good.

And about the Mace/ Palpatine fight, you're dead wrong. The "most likely explanation" is what Lucas and the novels say; They were even, with Mace drawing off Palpatines darkside energies for strength, and then Mace overpowered him with Shatterpoint.

Originally posted by allfg
That's right, I copied my earlier argument, and what? It's better than what you do, which is copying other people's arguments. And FYI, this has never been refuted, but please, feel free to try, I like it when dumbasses step up to me.

Still in denial that anybody with a pulse can destroy your sad excuse for arguments? Stupid people usually are.

Originally posted by allfg
Oh my days, you are about to get owned.

The facts are:

1. Palpatine was dominating the entire fight; murdering 3 jedi masters in seconds, and Mace couldn't do a damn thing to prevent it, and putting Mace, an aggressive fighter on the defencive. He was clearly dominating the fight, it's kinda surprising that Mace was able to disarm him period, let alone just as Anakin entered the room. Coincidence? I think not. Remember, this is a universe where 'there is no such thing as luck or coincidences'. The timing was just too damn good to be true. The most likely explanation is that Palpatine had sensed Anakin coming, and knowing all about Mace's shatterpoint gift, had left an opening for Mace to disarm him like he did, leaving Anakin in a position where it seemed as if Mace was attempting to assassinate an unarmed prisoner.

2. There’s the fact that Palpatine fought much better against Yoda than he did against Mace, and it’s no like there’s a valid reason for him to not fight as well against Mace as he did against yoda, other than him going easy on Mace.

3. Palpatine was a master manipulator, probably the best ever and his foresight was incredible (it was stated in LoE that he was gifted enough to have access to "streams" of potential futures, and used his intellect to manipulate one into coming into fruition). It was not beyond Palpatine's intelligence and foresight to orchestrate such a thing. I mean he had been duping the jedi for years.

4. We know that Palpatine faked being weak in the force, is it that far off to assume that he faked the lightsaber part too, especially considering how perfect the timing was? Also, need I remind you that Palpatine clearly had Mace at one point; his lightsaber was stretched out against his chest, yet he chose not to finish him off. To ignore this is pure fanboyism; that's visual proof that Palpatine was holding back against Mace.

And you do realise that Mace overpowering Sidious doesn' necessarily dispute that Sidious was holding back, and let Mace win, right?

And copying people who are smarter/more original/funnier than yourself is your "fortay".

Why the fvck do you constantly come up with this whack shit? 'Canon is canon'? What the fvck does that have to do with anything? Do you even know what you're talking about? Please Sexy, how about you stick to cheerleading Advent and Ac's arguments, because debating really isn't your thing.

Yes, there is. Firstly, he knows every move and sequence to the saberstaff perfectly, and switching up between these during combat would give him a unique style. Secondly, those are the moves of Kas'im's furthered forms, which are beyond the standard 7 forms that Mace would be familiar with.

"While he was choking Quordis to death, Quordis begged him to stop and let them fight with sabers so that he could die with honour, and Bane said that he would be able to just as easily defeat him with a saber, and Quordis seemed to know this. This implies that Bane would have been able to defeat him in seconds with a saber, and Quordis was one of the top sith of a pretty impressive order. It also shows that his saber skills were likely on par with his force abilities."
Hey, quantify Qordis' power. Oh that's right, you can't! Another dumbass argument.

[quote]This, coupled along with his other saber related achievements proves you wrong. Isn't it hard always being wrong?

I could continue but this pwnage should be enough for you. Go back to the drawing board Noobaris, or take your antidepressants so you can postpone living in reality.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay, a few thing about the shatterpoint/orbalisk situation:

1) The cutting power of a lightsaber is due to energy, and orbalisks may have a resistance to that energy (the way cortosis weave does), but that does not make them stronger or harder than durasteel, which Mace can apparently punch through. Meaning in terms of physical force, orbalisks could easily be more fragile than durasteel.

Actually, the orbalisks differ in nature, in the sense that it's pretty much resistant to the cutting power of anything, no matter how strong or sharp. This is stated in the DSSB, and can be seen in BotS when it has the same effect on the giant beast bird that attacked Bane. It's not an energy thing like cortosis. I also find it funny that you think Bane would actually let Mace just go and punch him..

2)Of course any idiot can figure out that Bane's face is an opening, but anyone with a moderate amount of intelligence (who knows what they are talking about) can also see that:

3) Mace could find a shatterpoint that isn't his face. Shatterpoint is in no way useless in this fight. He could hit Bane and the knee, and have it split his femur like a twig or something. The man can tap a diamond (I repeat: tap), and have it shatter into a million pieces. With a full swing, powered by his force augmented strength and speed, using Vaapad, the most powerful form, he could break Bane.

1. Shatterpoint didn't exactly prove too useful against Mace or Sidious, and Mace even comments that he faces difficulty in using it during combat. Against someone as quick and aggressive as Bane, he'd never be able to capitalise on Bane's shatterpoint.

2. The point is, due to the orbalisk armour, Bane's only weakness is his face.

3. The diamond you're talking about is fallible. The orbalisks aren't in the same sense.

4) One of the Stupidest things I've seen:

Someone has no idea what the Hell they are talking about. Yes, Shatterpoint analyzes weakness, and gives them the opportunity to capitalize on it. Do you know what Shatterpoint is? It is the force telling you where to hit, and if you take that attack, they're done for.

Actually, Spiderman was 100% correct. Shatterpoint only points out weaknesses. It doesn't give Mace the skill or power to capitalise on those weaknesses.

Now for a few things that may not have to do with that situation, but are relevant to the fight.

1) Mace has easily shown to be faster than Bane,

No he hasn't, refer to my post, even his inconsistent EU abilities aren't as great as what Bane can do. There's also the fact that the highest form of canon shows how slow Mace is, and arguing against that is arguing against canon.

but, if you want to argue otherwise, it really won't matter. Mace takes the dark side that his opponents use to augment their speed, and uses it as his own, meaning, he gets just as much of a boost in speed and strength and such as they do.

Again, this is a complete mistruth. All this overhyping of Vaapad is due to one single line in the RotS novelisation being taken out of proportion. Now if you really want to argue that Vaapad alone would grant Mace the ability to match Bane's speed, prove up.

2) Mace is on par with Yoda (the most powerful Jedi, pre-Luke),

On par doesn't actually mean = to. And the movies disagree, anyway.

who is as powerful as Sidious, and Mace beat Sidious in lightsaber combat.

Refer to my earlier post, Sidious let Mace win, and held back. There's also the fact that Sidious' forte was his force abilities, so it's kinda irrelevant anyway.

Relevance? Sidious > Bane (That is a fact, but the margin can only be determined by feats, where Sids trumps Bane).

1. It's not a fact, the quote was inconclusive. There's also the fact that reference material is lesser than the stuff it's based on - original source material and is subject to being retconned by in-universe evidence.

2. In response to your second statement, that's 100% false. Sidious only pulls off top tier level feats after the PT. PT Sidious is in no way on Bane's level, refer to my earlier post.

3) Mo' fukin' Vaapad. Bane has been taught patters of attack and defense to fight Jedi. Here, he is up against a style he has never seen, which happens to be completely unpredictable, and also happens to be the most powerful style.

Bane's style is also unpredictable. Now that's Mace's one advantage, one that Bane also shares, now disregarding that, Bane is much faster, Bane is much stronger, Bane is much stronger in the force, Bane is much more technically gifted, and possesses armour that almost makes him physically invincible. There's also the fact that Bane doesn't actually need to even use his saber, and can just own him with the force.

Bane tries to attack him with rage, he gets all that back in his face. If he doesn't, he gets his ass handed to him.

Again, it's all a mistruth. Mace isn't invincible against any darksider like you see to think. And to add on to what I was saying earlier, it won't even come to that, Bane is far too quick and aggressive, and will put him on the defencive as easily as Sidious in RotS. Wait, hold up, scratch that: not just as easily, but with way more ease.

4)
Mace beat Asajj.
Mace beat Sora.
Mace killed Jango freaking Fett speedy quick... without using force powers.
Mace punked Quinlain.
Mace beat Greivous a few times. (Lightsaber, force crush, force... speeder to the body)
Mace took on Dooku and Dooku called for reinforcements to get away.
Mace stopped an avalanche with the force.
The whole Sidious thing.

There is a lot more, but... meh. Basically: Watch Clone Wars, read a few comics on SW Timeline, and Read Shatterpoint .

That's great, now let's compare that to what Bane has done (refer to my megapost above)...

And despite all that, I'm willing to give Mace this after a tough match. Bane is too physically impressive and skilled to be a pushover, even for Mace.

More like Bane tools him in a saber fight, and even worse with the force.

*Sigh*

This is just for you, allfg:

Vaapad, the seventh form of lightsaber combat, takes its name from a notoriously dangerous predator native to the moons of Sarapin: a vaapad attacks its prey with whipping strikes of its blindingly fast tentacles. Most have at least seven. It is not uncommon for them to have as many as twelve; the largest ever killed had twenty-three. With a vaapad, one never knew how many tentacles it had until it was dead: they move too fast to count. Almost too fast to see. So did Mace's blade.
Vaapad is as aggressive and powerful as its namesake, but its power comes at great risk: immersion in Vaapad opens the gates that restrain one's inner darkness. To use Vaapad, a Jedi must allow himself to enjoy the fight; he must give himself over to the thrill of battle. The rush of winning. Vaapad is a path that leads through the penumbra of the dark side.
Mace Windu created this style, and he was its only living master.
This was Vaapad's ultimate test.
Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind-the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.
The shadow he fought, that blur of speed-could that be Palpatine?
Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them-
But he could feel them in the Force.
The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent.
And it was darkening.
Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts.
There was no Jedi restraint here.
Mace Windu was cutting loose.
Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being.
Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center-
And let it fountain out again.
He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.
There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself. But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding: on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkness and had learned that the power of darkness is not to be feared.
He had learned that it is fear that gives the darkness power.
He was not afraid. The darkness had no power over him. But-
Neither did he have power over it.
Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse.
Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift.
The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind. While his blade spun and crackled, while his feet slid and his weight shifted and his shoulders turned in precise curves of their own direction, his mind slid along the circuit of dark power, tracing it back to its limitless source.
Feeling for its shatterpoint.
He found a knot of fault lines in the shadow's future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and the
now-
And it led him, astonishingly, to a man standing frozen in the slashed-open doorway. Mace had no need to look; the presence in the Force was familiar, and was as uplifting as sunlight breaking through a thunderhead.
The chosen one was here.
Mace disengaged from the shadow's blade and leapt for the window; he slashed away the transparisteel with a single flourish.
His instant's distraction cost him: a dark surge of the Force nearly blew him right out of the gap he had just cut. Only a desperate Force-push of his own altered his path enough that he slammed into a stanchion instead of plunging half a kilometer from the ledge outside. He bounced off and the Force cleared his head and once again he gave himself to Vaapad.
He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge.
Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop.
Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete.
Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.
One piece flipped back in through the cut-open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain toward the distant alleys below.
Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.

Still refuse to look at anything that isn't "Bane is teh roxorz!!1!"?

You are a blind little man.

Okay, everyone who hasn't been banned multiple times in the past few months, do you agree that Mace would win?

Why would we have to agree? This is an argument against Noobaris which is a guaranteed victory. Of course Mace would win, there's no doubt.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay insults don't help, they just ruin your credibility when you insult someone like Sexy.

Right, I lose credibility by supplementing my points with insults against a loser/troll, who just happened to be plainly and uselessly insulting me? OK...

Anyway:

I don't have a problem with most of the things on your list (other than the over-glorified spin you put on everything).

Coming from you? Don't even go there, unless you want me to point out your whole lumberjack argument..

However, it's still not enough to take on Windu. He's just not that good.

Bullshit.

1. He's stronger in the force.
2. He's faster.
3. He's physically stonger.
4. He possesses unbreakable argument that protects his entire body minus his face.
5. He's technically more gifted.

And about the Mace/ Palpatine fight, you're dead wrong. The "most likely explanation" is what Lucas and the novels say; They were even, with Mace drawing off Palpatines darkside energies for strength, and then Mace overpowered him with Shatterpoint.

All GL says is that Mace overpowered him. The novel doesn't elaborate into whether Sidious was going full out or not. And that's not what the novel said, all it says is that Mace sensed that Anakin was Sidious' shatterpoint. It didn't factor in on the fight one bit. And in response to the 'drawing off Palpatine's darkside energies', all that is, is one line that has been completely blown out of proportion.

Originally posted by allfg
Right, I lose credibility by supplementing my points with insults against a loser/troll, who just happened to be plainly and uselessly insulting me? OK...

Coming from you? Don't even go there, unless you want me to point out your whole lumberjack argument..

Bullshit.

1. He's stronger in the force.
2. He's faster.
3. He's physically stonger.
4. He possesses unbreakable argument that protects his entire body minus his face.
5. He's technically more gifted.

All GL says is that Mace overpowered him. The novel doesn't elaborate into whether Sidious was going full out or not. And that's not what the novel said, all it says is that Mace sensed that Anakin was Sidious' shatterpoint. It didn't factor in on the fight one bit. And in response to the 'drawing off Palpatine's darkside energies', all that is, is one line that has been completely blown out of proportion.

See, this is like Vaapad. You do this to my arguments, and I just reflect it.

Originally posted by allfg
Because if a lightsaber can't cut through something, Mace certainly isn't going to be punching through it. Use your head?

And I think you need to read through what I said again, the story and many aspects of the cartoons are canon, however the skills and abilities of the jedi are completely inconsistent with the movies. As is his launching 6 punches before his opponent could blink. However I really don't see how that, as unrealistic as it is, is even faster than speeds that Bane can move at. Remember, Bane, while still a student, could move at speeds so fast that time seemed to stop for everyone else, and that he was simply a blur to the eyes of trained force users who would naturally have superior reflexes. This was also at the end of a long and tiring duel. By BotS, as I’m sure you’ll agree, Bane is much stronger in the force. Judging by the extra experience he has received (over a year), and the more knowledge he has received (Revan’s holocron, Nadd’s holocron and a jedi holocron), as well as the power surge he received from draining that family on Ambria, I’d say it’s safe to say that he’s at least 5 times more powerful with the force (I’d even go as far as to say 10 times as powerful, but whatever). His force speed would likely increase by the same amount too, so that’s at least 5 times faster. And it doesn’t stop there, his orbalisks make him even faster.

1. They constantly pump adrenaline into Bane’s body, which would make him much faster, much more energetic, and grant him much greater reflexes.

2. They constantly inject darkside energies into Bane, which can be channelled into Bane’s muscles to make them stronger, which in turn would make him much faster.

3. They constantly pump up Bane’s muscles and keep the constantly flexed, which would leave the same result as in 2.

Bane is definitely much faster than Mace, there’s no point in arguing it.

*Yawn!* You're an idiot. An absolute, ****ing moron.

What's that? Leland Chee said that...*GASP!* There's no contradiction in Eu abilities? PWNED!

When did Bane punch through solid durasteel or hit someone six times before they could blink

You lose because you're a stupid, ignorant liar. There's no need to argue, everyone knows you're wrong. Oh, btw, Mace is also a blur to trained eyes. In fact, six times punching before a blink.

Btw, Palp's still stronger than Bane! Proven in any source!

Sorry, you stupid liar

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay insults don't help, they just ruin your credibility when you insult someone like Sexy.

Right, I lose credibility by supplementing my points with insults against a loser/troll, who just happened to be plainly and uselessly insulting me? OK...

Anyway:

I don't have a problem with most of the things on your list (other than the over-glorified spin you put on everything).

Coming from you? Don't even go there, unless you want me to point out your whole lumberjack argument..

However, it's still not enough to take on Windu. He's just not that good.

Bullshit.

1. He's stronger in the force.
2. He's faster.
3. He's physically stronger.
4. He possesses unbreakable argument that protects his entire body minus his face.
5. He's technically more gifted.

And about the Mace/ Palpatine fight, you're dead wrong. The "most likely explanation" is what Lucas and the novels say; They were even, with Mace drawing off Palpatines darkside energies for strength, and then Mace overpowered him with Shatterpoint.

All GL says is that Mace overpowered him. The novel doesn't elaborate into whether Sidious was going full out or not. And that's not what the novel said, all it says is that Mace sensed that Anakin was Sidious' shatterpoint. It didn't factor in on the fight one bit. And in response to the 'drawing off Palpatine's darkside energies', all that is, is one line that has been completely blown out of proportion.