Originally posted by Lord Evolution
Tyson would win in 3 rounds.Looking at the way both of them fought and how much force Tyson had and how much he could put into one punch, I just couldn't see Ali lasting long.
We are talking primes here right?
Tyson > Ali
Interesting. Are we talking primes as in Tyson with Damato? If so, pfft....Ali goes down 9/10 times.
Originally posted by StyleTime
Couldn't have said it better myself Sado22. Tyson was a master of the peek a boo defense under Damato. People are underestimating his skill level. Tyson wasn't just some street brawler and he has a very good chance of beating Ali. Everyone always likes to act as though Ali has never lost before.
Exactly. He was an extremely skilled fighter under Rooney and Damato. When Damato died, he still had Rooney for a good little bit -- at least until he fired him. This was the defining moment when Tyson's legend began to fade(that and when he married Robin Givens..)
Originally posted by Thundar
Isn't that what I said all along...🙄
My bad. But, I (and I think most) also tend to look at Mikey's overall body of work, and can't help but be jaded but what his career summed up to be-most notably due to his body of work in his later years, which sadly (justifiable or not) seems to sum up his career.
I will agree that Mikey had chapters to his career if that's how you want to look at it.
And in his first chapter with Damato by his side, Tyson was the greatest heavyweight EVER, period. NO ONE would have beaten him. Heck, he was the heavyweight champ at an age (18) when most are seniors in high school. Scary. Good point, and good thread Thundar. 😎
Originally posted by BobbyD
My bad. But, I (and I think most) also tend to look at Mikey's overall body of work, and can't help but be jaded but what his career summed up to be-most notably due to his body of work in his later years, which sadly (justifiable or not) seems to sum up his career.I will agree that Mikey had chapters to his career if that's how you want to look at it.
I'll admit, Tyson wasn't in the best fighting condition after his release from prison. But the only legitimate loss I'll give to him in his prime was the loss to Buster Douglas, as Buster was fighting with a lot more heart and a lot more motivation to win than Tyson was that night. But you must admit that both Holyfield fights were a crock. Mike was way past his prime in the Holyfield bouts, and even at this level Holyfield still didn't want to fight the man. I'm suprised he didn't get disqualified for the excessive hugging and headbutting. Mike shouldn't have bit him, but Holyfield had it comming.
Originally posted by BobbyD
And in his first chapter with Damato by his side, Tyson was the greatest heavyweight EVER, period. NO ONE would have beaten him. Heck, he was the heavyweight champ at an age (18) when most are seniors in high school. Scary. Good point, and good thread Thundar. 😎 [/B]
Yes! I gotta convert. 😆
Truer words have never been spoken. You should watch some of the earlier bouts on youtube, the man was steamrolling through people.
Originally posted by Thundar
Yes! I gotta convert. 😆Truer words have never been spoken. You should watch some of the earlier bouts on youtube, the man was steamrolling through people.
Silly wabbit, tricks are 4 kids. 🙄
You didn't get me to convert. I just need to see the point you were trying to address. 😉
Tyson loses everytime.Period,end of story.AGAIN Ali faught much much tougher competition.Many people agree on this as well.just the other day I was watching an old bout of Tysons where at that point he had been undefeated and was like 30 and o and EVEN the announcer was saying that Tyson hadnt really faced much tough competition on his way to earning those 30 victorys.No way could Tyson have stood toe to toe with the likes of Ernie Shavers and George Foreman and lasted in the late rounds like Ali did with them.Again Ali was way too smart a fighter that he would have ever been dumb enough to let Tyson get him with his uppercut.Tyson was never the same fighter again once he got knocked out by Douglass.Ali never let losing to another fighter faze his confidence.Douglass proved that if you can stay in the ring long enough with Tyson past the first few rounds that Tyson would lose,Tyson did not have the stamina to last in the late rounds and would lose when he got into the late rounds.Just the other day someone brought that point up that Tyson was never the same fighter once he lost to Douglass.Put Ali in the ring with Tyson early in his prime-a fighter that would have given him competition,Tyson would have had a defeat very early on in his career.
tyson was a slugger.
ali was a fighter with superb boxing skills.
Look what ali did to foreman. Forman was a slugger with boxing skills. ali wore him down and beat him strategically from choosing the ropes, to where the match took place. Tyson isnt what you would call a boxer. He had extreme power. how many noteworthy opponents did tyson conquer?
Re: Tyson vs Ali
Originally posted by Thundar
I was watching some of the old Tyson fights on youtube, and I'm of the opinion that if both fighters were in their prime, Tyson would turn out to be the victor.Tyson was like a force of nature in his prime. Ali was a skilled boxer, but Tyson fought a many skilled boxers who would have given Ali much trouble. These same skilled boxers were always taken out by Iron Mike in the first round of their bouts.
People tend to also forget how skilled of a fighter Tyson was under the training of Gus Damato. He was unnaturally quick for a man of his size and girth, and had some of the best footwork and defensive fighting stances that I've ever seen on a heavyweight.
All this aside, Mike had an unnatural amount of power in his punches. IMO, he was without a doubt the hardest puncher to ever step into the ring(punching even harder than Foreman and Marciano).
A combination of this speed and unnatural punching power, as well as his well above average boxing abilities would have made Tyson the best heavyweight ever, if it weren't for the passing of Damato.
Unfortunately after Damato, Tyson was mishandled by a lot of people and trainers, who concentrated more on fear and intimidation in his style, instead of the well rounded training that Damato had instilled in Mike.
Instead of trying to box people, Tyson would come out in later fights trying to use this fear and intimidation strategy, as well as always trying to get the one punch knockout in his later bouts. This style, as well as his ever increasing arrogance, lead to the once great fighters fall from among the greatest.
What are your opinions? Who do you think would win this battle of champions and why?
You're kidding me right? Tyson has not fought anyone skilled in his career besides Holyfield and Lennox Lewis. Those two, by the way, beat him. It should be known, however, that Tyson was past his prime during those fights but that's not the point. Anyway, Tyson always had trouble with good, tall boxers. He's be outboxed the whole fight. To Muhammad Ali, it would be like fighting a quicker Frazier. Sure, Tyson has a chance but Muahammad Ali would more than likely either knock him out in the later rounds or outbox him to a victory. Tyson's chin, durability, and heart was always in question too.
I think people are missing the point of this thread. Yes, I'd give Ali the majority over Tyson in a boxing match, but unless I'm reading the thread incorrectly, the threadmaker's intention is to have Ali fighting Tyson with the Tyson in the early part of his years, with Cus D'Amato by his side, when Tyson was virtually indesctructible. Ali goes down to this version of Tyson. Boxing historians agree with this also, for whatever that's worth. However, in Tyson's other chapters of his career, Ali simply schools Mikey.
Cheers
Originally posted by BobbyD
I think people are missing the point of this thread. Yes, I'd give Ali the majority over Tyson in a boxing match, but unless I'm reading the thread incorrectly, the threadmaker's intention is to have Ali fighting Tyson with the Tyson in the early part of his years, with Cus D'Amato by his side, when Tyson was virtually indesctructible. Ali goes down to this version of Tyson. Boxing historians agree with this also, for whatever that's worth. However, in Tyson's other chapters of his career, Ali simply schools Mikey.Cheers
Umm no. That version just has an even better chance, but Ali will probably take that fight. And which boxing historians are you talking about, there's probably some but the majority will favor Ali. First off Tyson is one of my favorite boxers off all time, but even I know Ali takes it. Tyson at that age was great, but he was never tested against a true and legit opponent. Prime Ali vs Prime Tyson is a great fight indeed but Ali will just outbox him. Like I already said, Tyson will have big trouble against a good, tall boxer who uses his range. Ali takes this, he's faster and his evasive abilities are just too great for Tyson to overcome. I do agree that Tyson has a puncher's chance, just like any other fighter who can land a good, clean punch on anyone else. Most likely wont happen though.
Originally posted by teampac08
Umm no. That version just has an even better chance, but Ali will probably take that fight. And which boxing historians are you talking about, there's probably some but the majority will favor Ali. First off Tyson is one of my favorite boxers off all time, but even I know Ali takes it. Tyson at that age was great, but he was never tested against a true and legit opponent. Prime Ali vs Prime Tyson is a great fight indeed but Ali will just outbox him. Like I already said, Tyson will have big trouble against a good, tall boxer who uses his range. Ali takes this, he's faster and his evasive abilities are just too great for Tyson to overcome. I do agree that Tyson has a puncher's chance, just like any other fighter who can land a good, clean punch on anyone else. Most likely wont happen though.
You make a valid point. But, people tend to think Mike was just a pure slugger. In fact, even though he had the sledgehammer to KO you, he was in fact a very good boxer in his early career with his peek a boo philosophy, and bobbing and weaving technique.
Listen, people keep saying that Tyson never fought anyone early in his career. That is probably true. But, how may other greats could end bouts like he did...even they were neverwillbes? The answer is none.
I'm sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree, bud. 😉
Originally posted by BobbyD
You make a valid point. But, people tend to think Mike was just a pure slugger. In fact, even though he had the sledgehammer to KO you, he was in fact a very good boxer in his early career with his peek a boo philosophy, and bobbing and weaving technique.Listen, people keep saying that Tyson never fought anyone early in his career. That is probably true. But, how may other greats could end bouts like he did...even they were neverwillbes? The answer is none.
I'm sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree, bud. 😉
I agree. I know that he has great underrated defense. His bobbing and weaving was very hard to overcome. Thing is, it would still be incredibly hard to hit a prime Ali as well. Ali had great defense. Tyson was quick with his punches too, but Ali had even quicker hands in his prime. I wouldnt be surprised if Tyson knocked down Ali. But I would expect Ali to come back up if this were to happen and still outbox him. Tyson's endurance was never really tested in his prime either. I dont expect him to last the distance with Ali, and if he did it would still be a decision in Ali's favor. Trust me, Tyson would have a harder time tagging Ali then Ali hitting Tyson. Ali's proven himself against countless hard hitters. Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Cooper, Shavers, etc. Has Tyson proven himself against a boxer who uses range and quick punches like Ali?
Originally posted by teampac08
Has Tyson proven himself against a boxer who uses range and quick punches like Ali?
No....he's lost to such boxers (Lewis & Holyfield). In Tyson's defense, this was laaaater in his career when he was no longer a boxer, and just a novelty to make money.
We'll really never know I guess. 😬
Originally posted by BobbyD
No....he's lost to such boxers (Lewis & Holyfield). In Tyson's defense, this was laaaater in his career when he was no longer a boxer, and just a novelty to make money.We'll really never know I guess. 😬
Dont get me wrong, he's a top ten heavyweight of all time. I even think think in his prime, he beats any boxer except Ali and Foreman. He loses to Ali because he's too smart and Foreman because he destroys everyone that runs straight up at him. Foreman's even stronger than Tyson. Styles make fights, and Foreman loved fighters that wanted to go toe to toe with him.