Im confused, Metal Man. You keep talking about how you've proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt that Spiderman is MUCH faster than Wolverine...
I've noticed that in any discussion that the two of US have had, anything you've tried to use to prove Spidey's speed, I've been able to match by Captain America or Logan. 😬.
Did I miss your infallible proof somewhere? I'd really like to read up on it.
Originally posted by Soljer
Im confused, Metal Man. You keep talking about how you've proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt that Spiderman is MUCH faster than Wolverine...I've noticed that in any discussion that the two of US have had, anything you've tried to use to prove Spidey's speed, I've been able to match by Captain America or Logan. 😬.
Did I miss your infallible proof somewhere? I'd really like to read up on it.
To tell you the honest truth, Soljer, I've "proved" my point just as well as some of the others (not you) have "proved" theirs.
There's a whole lot of "Well, I've now matched your Spidey speed feat with this Wolverine speed feat." And that's pretty much all there is. A "because I say I've matched it, I've matched". But, of course, I counter with the same argument, that my feat is superior, and it's obviously not met with the same applause. Just seems that when I try to pull the same stunts, they don't work. 😬
When comparing the speed feats between the two and using all the context-comic clues to acurrately judge the feats, it appears to be fact that Spidey is, well, extremely fast. And while Wolverine is super-fast, too, I've just seen nothing from the comics or respect threads that would lead me to believe that Wolvie is in the same speed category.
From what I've seen a good analogy would be that Wolverine is a race-horse while Spidey is a cheetah. If that's just me, then fine. I'm confident with my evaluations of their abilities.
Fair enough, I suppose.
I acknowledge that Spidey is faster, of course. I just don't think the gap between him and peak human speed of Captain America's kind is large enough to be a huge deciding factor.
I'd say it's more like....
Spidey is the race horse that comes in first...
Wolverine is the second or third place race horse.
There is a speed gap, but they are running the same race, you know?
If that's just ME? Fine, no biggie. I'm just as confident with my evaluation. I suppose it's just 'agree to disagree.'
Interesting analogies, guys. hmm
Here's my evaluation:
I (Smurf), would be the brilliant kid at the front of the class, getting straight A+'s, who's been nominated for scholarships since grade six, has disproved one of Einstein's theories using Lego blocks, and happens to be dating the head cheerleader.
Metalmanx would be the kid in the middle of the class, with messy hair and freckles. He's the average kid- he gets OK marks, and always tries his best, brings a bag lunch to school everyday. He won't go to Cambridge, but will go to a decent university, get an all right degree, and grow old doing the crossword puzzles everyday.
Soljer's the dirty, ugly kid who sits in the back of the class with his feet on his desk and his finger up his nose. He's lost every textbook and doesn't even know it, and whenever his teacher's look at him they automatically visualize one of those cone DUNCE hats sitting atop his head. The kind of kid that thinks that the closest star to the earth is the moon, and that buffalo wings should be illegal because buffalo are endangered.
Let me bring up that these same feats have been done by nightwing and characters like him, why aren't they being argued as fast? That's right because others can accept it. Like I said this came up when riceroost was around and hasn't stopped. Spiderman relies on his superior speed to win, Logan his durability, whenever we see them or any other fight him, Spiderman is moving and dodging, and Logan is taking hits because he can.
There's nowhere where it says that Logan is as fast as Spiderman, or close to it. Not by logan, not by Spiderman, not by marvel. They are just after-image depictions on a still panel. The stronger a muscle is in the same amount of area, the faster it has to move and work to deliver said force. Why do you think Spiderman pulls himself up so quickly or jumps so far? His body is like a loaded spring. Noone is saying Logan can't hit him, but I am saying that Spiderman is a good deal faster.
Originally posted by MetalmanxYou have proven it, I haven't seen one thing to date that has proven likewise.
I have proven it. You just refuse to accept it because you feel that you are right. It's okay, I've come to terms with your inability to admit when you're wrong.Obviously his spider-sense helps a lot, but Peter also just has superhuman reflexes that would enable him to avoid Wolverine and land numerous hits on him. With his healing factor cut down considerably, too, Wolverine would still go down.
It's funny because this crap never came up when I joined this forum, that crap started when riceroost came. I notice there are alot of bogus statements made, and when I ask for proof to these bogus statements, it's dodged and still argued later.
Originally posted by SoljerI can somewhat agree to that. My only thing to point out is the CIS limitation on Spiderman. He's shown when he wants to, he leaves fights untouched. Teams of characters have been unable to touch him in many instances. (I'm going to play the high-end feat game on this statement because wolvieboys love using Hulk), and say that Firelord and Thor can't touch him. (Turns off featwar), and titania couldn't either. A book has to be interesting, and he's often distracted, but I don't see a Logan fighting a Spiderman who is focused on him alone and fighting able to make him fight on his terms if he doesn't want to, he simply has too many options.
Fair enough, I suppose.I acknowledge that Spidey is faster, of course. I just don't think the gap between him and peak human speed of Captain America's kind is large enough to be a huge deciding factor.
I'd say it's more like....
Spidey is the race horse that comes in first...
Wolverine is the second or third place race horse.
There is a speed gap, but they are running the same race, you know?
If that's just ME? Fine, no biggie. I'm just as confident with my evaluation. I suppose it's just 'agree to disagree.'
Why do I look in these threads anyways, I just get annoyed by what I read. 🙁 (not by you)
Spidey doesn't need his spider sense to win battles. Its an advantage he has in his fights and its not like he can turn it off because he does not feel like using. Spidey fights Venom without his spider sense because he is immune to it, and Spidey was still able survive. Sure Spidey has gotten his ass handed to him by Venom on more than one occasion, but Venom is a guy capable of tearing anyone of these guys here to shreds.
Spidey clears it.
Is Spiderman that much faster than wolverine? or is it because he seems faster than people(Spider sense warning him of danger). When Spidey doesn't get touched by a team, he usually has Spider sense to thank for that. You disable his spider sense and he is still faster than wolverine of course, but shouldn't be that great.
I say he is faster while swinging on webs and staying in motion, hopping around great distances but if he is close to fight with constant punches instead of his hit, swing, kick, hop, web, and run then he will get tagged by constantly on offense close up.
Originally posted by python99Venom doesn't destroy spiderman because of plot devices and well, Spiderman is marvels most popular so they wouldn't let him die like that. Venom should kill Spiderman and Wolverine fairly easy if he wanted to lol(Serve them up with some bacon and have sex with mary jane eek).
Spidey doesn't need his spider sense to win battles. Its an advantage he has in his fights and its not like he can turn it off because he does not feel like using. Spidey fights Venom without his spider sense because he is immune to it, and Spidey was still able survive. Sure Spidey has gotten his ass handed to him by Venom on more than one occasion, but Venom is a guy capable of tearing anyone of these guys here to shreds.
Spidey clears it.
Spiderman does not clear it. He if anything, isn't getting past Sabertooth even with the spider sense. He does beat dare devil for certain I think and maybe Batman if he gets first strike.
His Spidersense wouldn't make him infalliable, I'd rather people argue that then he's fast. He is that fast (when he kicks it into high gear).
If Wolverine and Spiderman are running in a race he'd be close behind, but in terms of dodging, he'd be quite a bit behind.
In terms of attack speed they'd be rather close too. But not in dodging. So if you look at it in some ways they are similar, but dodging is what Spiderman does best. That other junk didn't happen until riceroost showed up.
Python is arguing that he can hang with Venom, not beat him. Actually Spiderman has gotten his ass kicked quite a bit.
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterDoesn't spider sense have something to do with him dodging 😕 I am not saying he can't dodge good without it but...
His Spidersense wouldn't make him infalliable, I'd rather people argue that then he's fast. He is that fast (when he kicks it into high gear).If Wolverine and Spiderman are running in a race he'd be close behind, but in terms of dodging, he'd be quite a bit behind.
In terms of attack speed they'd be rather close too. But not in dodging.
Originally posted by crimsonphoenixIt enhances it, but he's still capable of dodging. He doesn't lay on the ground and cover his ears when he doesn't have it. Actually his Spidersense isn't even written like it's portrayed. It doesn't go off after every attack in comics, it doesn't even go off in most comics. He just dodges without it. It's like cream to his cake, not the cake itself.
Doesn't spider sense have something to do with him dodging 😕 I am not saying he can't dodge good without it but...
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterI didn't say he can't dodge, I said that when he dodges teams in his higher showings it is heavily on spider sense and not his speed. The spider sense doesn't go off with every hit because the writters or people drawing; can't bother draw the little steam over his head with every punch, that would be annoying and just stupid. People argue his precog all the time but if you say it doesn't go off with every hit, then he is going to get killed by someone with close speed(with more skills), dangerous weapons that could do critical damage. He can get hit with the spider sense so without it, someone like Captain america could do alot of damage.
It enhances it, but he's still capable of dodging. He doesn't lay on the ground and cover his ears when he doesn't have it. Actually his Spidersense isn't even written like it's portrayed. It doesn't go off after every attack in comics, it doesn't even go off in most comics. He just dodges without it. It's like cream to his cake, not the cake itself.
furthermore...wait, did you say cake 😱
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterThere's nowhere where it says that Logan is as fast as Spiderman, or close to it. Not by logan, not by Spiderman, not by marvel. They are just after-image depictions on a still panel. The stronger a muscle is in the same amount of area, the faster it has to move and work to deliver said force. Why do you think Spiderman pulls himself up so quickly or jumps so far? His body is like a loaded spring. Noone is saying Logan can't hit him, but I am saying that Spiderman is a good deal faster.
I don't really like bringing it up, but what about the graveyard fight? You say marvel's NEVER said that they were on comparable speed levels, what about when Wolverine makes Spiderman second guess his own powers?
Originally posted by crimsonphoenix
Doesn't spider sense have something to do with him dodging 😕 I am not saying he can't dodge good without it but...
Well, the spider sense gives him that extra second or so that he may need to dodge an attack. The spider sense does not change his reaction speed, just the time he has to react.
Originally posted by SoljerThat was Spiderman selling himself short as part of his personality (I do it sometimes when facing someone new, that inner doubt), he did however go back and say "noone's faster"!
I don't really like bringing it up, but what about the graveyard fight? You say marvel's NEVER said that they were on comparable speed levels, what about when Wolverine makes Spiderman second guess his own powers?
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterWolverine isn't faster than Spiderman but he is not far off. Spiderman saying "No one is faster" out of rage, shows that he has to go all out in speed to hold the edge. It isn't like Spiderman is the flash where the gap between him and Wolverine matters to the extreme in a match.
That was Spiderman selling himself short as part of his personality (I do it sometimes when facing someone new, that inner doubt), he did however go back and say "noone's faster"!
As for the guy above you, you make it sound as if the spider sense barely helps him dodge when in fact it does heavily(To aviod danger over all). For someone with skills as high as wolverine, having no spider sense will make spiderman not know where the attack is coming from and will get hit; he can not punch to the point it does major damage and not get hit at the same time.
Where is that cake you mentioned earlier c 😠
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That was Spiderman selling himself short as part of his personality (I do it sometimes when facing someone new, that inner doubt), he did however go back and say "noone's faster"!
Of course it was Spiderman doubting himself. But the fact of the matter is that Wolverine was MAKING him doubt himself.
I'm not using that fight as evidence that Wolverine's faster; only a fanboy or the ignorant would argue that.
Rather, I'm using that fight as evidence that Wolverine is fast enough to make Spidey say 'Damn...' - evidence that Spidey isn't significantly faster than Wolverine. Not faster enough to be landing five hits to Wolverine's one.
Originally posted by crimsonphoenixHe isn't far off in running speed, but he is quite a bit in dodging, because the stronger a muscle in the same area, the faster it works.
Wolverine isn't faster than Spiderman but he is not far off. Spiderman saying "No one is faster" out of rage, shows that he has to go all out in speed to hold the edge. It isn't like Spiderman is the flash where the gap between him and Wolverine matters to the extreme in a match.As for the guy above you, you make it sound as if the spider sense barely helps him dodge when in fact it does heavily(To aviod danger over all). For someone with skills as high as wolverine, having no spider sense will make spiderman not know where the attack is coming from and will get hit; he can not punch to the point it does major damage and not get hit at the same time.
Where is that cake you mentioned earlier c 😠
Crossovers are generally written to match the characters, Spiderman simply got confidence in himself that he didn't have. It's not his physicality that gives Wolverine any advantages towards him, it's his mentality.
That cake.... uh.. 😮