Originally posted by Buccaneer
Cap can't, but that old Japanese guy from the first limited series almost killed him with a wooden sword?
Originally posted by Buccaneer
SvFL at its core. There's no way he should be able to physically contend with anyone over class 40.
Wolverine vs. Hulk issue 8: Bone claws Wolverine fights Hulk. He puts up quite a fight using his tactical mind, agility and skill. He is able to hit vital spots on the Hulk to inflict damage. He even wins the battle because hulk hits a mine opening up gas which KO’s the Hulk.
The New Invaders Enemy Of The State Tie-In Gust-Starring Wolverine issue 6:
Wolverine while under mind control is forced into battle with the Invaders. He kills Namor adviser due to a sneak attack and then jumps into battle with U.S Agent. He Damages U.S Agents arm in the first attack and is going for the kill when the Blazing Skull saves U.S Agents life. Blazing Skull how ever is quickly defeated. Logan cuts of one or his arms and legs. He then fights with Namor who he defeats in short order and is about to kill when UJ.S Agent sneak attacks Logan in order to save Namor’s life.
X-Men Classic issue 46: Wolverine attacks a rampaging Wendigo who has a woman and her child hidden in a cave. By allow him self to slip into a berserker rage he is able to KO Wendigo.
Wolverine Down & Dirty With Roughouse & BloodScream!: Wolverine after being tortured constantly and very weaken fist fights with Roughhouse. Logan through his skills, tactics and reflexes is able to defeat Roughhouse. It was manly through great skill that he was able to claim the win. He also defeated Bloodscream as well.
This was only a few examples of many many more.
Originally posted by Buccaneer
Saying Wolverine's never beaten anyone skilled but is better anyway doesn't make much more sense. So there's no credible proof that Wolverine is more skilled, we should just take people's word for it
Originally posted by Buccaneer
I dunno about Shang-chi, but in Streets of Poison Cap toyed with DD and knocked him out cold.
Logan defeating Daredevil in a fist fight with in 5 panels
http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvelcomicspresents151oo2.jpg
X-Men 97 hellfire Hong Kong guest –starring Shang-chi master of king-fu issue 97: Wolverine defeats Shan-chi in h2h combat rather easily showing Logan as the superior martial artist. It only takes Logan 5 panels to accomplish this.
Originally posted by Buccaneer
When was that? The only time I saw them fight was during the Capwolf story, where Wolverine was berserk and augmented against a Cap that didn't wanna fight. And still gave Howlett lumps.
Other fight was Wolverine Origins issue 4: Wolverine and Captain America fight each other, However this fight is after Logan had just fought and Defeated Nuke seconds before not to mention Logan had not gotten sleep or eaten any thing for a very long time. Yet Logan still appeared to be the one holding the advantage. Logan and Captain America both showed great skill in there match, Logan even showed his ability to cause blood clots to others. Which cause capt not only to lose, but to need to go to a hospital.
Originally posted by capt it up
wolverine schooled shang-chi in 5 pannels and DD in 5 pannels in purly h2h combat.
We've been over that before. Daredevil was not in his right mind due to being close to Typhoid. Wolverine stated it. Daredevil on the other hand took Wolvie out with 1 swift move in 1 panel.
Originally posted by Buccaneer
I dunno about Shang-chi, but in Streets of Poison Cap toyed with DD and knocked him out cold.
You mean right after DD came from Mephistos relam fighting for who knows how long? DD even stated that he wasnt 100% because of that. Hardly conclusive. DD once ko'd Cap with one move as well.
Originally posted by capt it up
Logan defeating Daredevil in a fist fight with in 5 panels
http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvelcomicspresents151oo2.jpg
See above post.
Originally posted by capt it up
which was PIS, Which I have proven to be PIS. Why do you always bring this up? When you dam well know it PIS? Also what was the point? This debate has nothing to do was DD against wolverine
You havent proven anything. The so called defeat Logan has in 5 panels is inconclusive. Its already been established that DD 's whole persona was different during that time as well as his thoughts being clouded by Typhoid. Why do you always bring that up? You say this debate has nothing to do wit hDD vs Wolvie, but yet you post a scan of an inconclusive skuffle and say that Logan defeated DD in 5 panels when thats clearly not the case.😬 You cant have it both ways.
Originally posted by jrodslam
You havent proven anything. The so called defeat Logan has in 5 panels is inconclusive. Its already been established that DD 's whole persona was different during that time as well as his thoughts being clouded by Typhoid. Why do you always bring that up? You say this debate has nothing to do wit hDD vs Wolvie, but yet you post a scan of an inconclusive skuffle and say that Logan defeated DD in 5 panels when thats clearly not the case.😬 You cant have it both ways.
actaully I have jsut becuase you ignore the fact logans taken far more damage to the same please with out falter is not my fault.
also DD persona was idfferent? you mean by the fatc he thought logan was going to kill her so he attack him. That it she did nothin beyond make him think logan would kill her.
also I sued it to show that logan has defeated skilled oponets I was not sayign he was more skileld then DD. Man you are way to over protective.
Originally posted by capt it up
actaully I have jsut becuase you ignore the fact logans taken far more damage to the same please with out falter is not my fault.also DD persona was idfferent? you mean by the fatc he thought logan was going to kill her so he attack him. That it she did nothin beyond make him think logan would kill her.
also I sued it to show that logan has defeated skilled oponets I was not sayign he was more skileld then DD. Man you are way to over protective.
You fail to understand that Logan has weakpoints. Ok and DD has been in full nelsons before and got out of them. Whats your point? Logan does have to breathe you know. He got hit right in the cala where he gets air.
Uhh. I you read the whole arc, Matt was suppose to be dead, thus the DD you see isnt suppose to be Matt. Hes shown to have a different take on things. His fighting was more wreckless and he was more of a hardass. She didnt do anything to make him think Logan was gonna kill her?
Also NOTE Wolvie saying "Nobodys got any sense left when they get near that sexy, crazy time bomb."
You used it to show nothing. Logan didnt defeat him. The fight was inconclusive. Im not overprotective. It just that youre making false claims.
Originally posted by jrodslam
You fail to understand that Logan has weakpoints.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Ok and DD has been in full nelsons before and got out of them.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Whats your point? Logan does have to breathe you know. He got hit right in the cala where he gets air.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Uhh. I you read the whole arc, Matt was suppose to be dead, thus the DD you see isnt suppose to be Matt.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Hes shown to have a different take on things. His fighting was more wreckless and he was more of a hardass. She didnt do anything to make him think Logan was gonna kill her?Also NOTE Wolvie saying "Nobodys got any sense left when they get near that sexy, crazy time bomb."
Originally posted by jrodslam
You used it to show nothing. Logan didnt defeat him. The fight was inconclusive. Im not overprotective. It just that youre making false claims.
Don’t be ridiculous the fight was over. There was no way he was going to get out of that.
jrod, Cap also thrashed DD in an older DD comic, and when Faustus hypnotized Cap.
Originally posted by capt it up
You should actually try reading the comic before talking about it. Wolverine was poisoned and was close to death the entire fight. Also that was before 2 major up grades to his healing factor as well as other upgrades to it. It called using current information and understanding the information you present.
I have the comics. If you recall, the issue was whether he can be hurt. Of course he could beat the geezer, but what you said is Cap couldn't hurt him. If he takes the right amount of hard blows, he could feel just as much pain or be knocked out like anyone else.
You should try thoroughly reading the rules. What you listed is a character going beyond what he was written to do. Wolverine was originally designed as a hulk rouge and fought hulk in his first appearance in hulk issue 181 were wolverine KO wendigo a class 100. There goes that whole argument of yours. Wolverine has fought hulk 14 times, namor 3 times, wendigo around 5 times, rough-house 7 times, rhino once, ba’al twice and so on. You assume this is a new thing. Hell I list some fights for you
The point is that he should be able to withstand their blows, not that he didn't fight or beat them. Nowhere in his stats will you find that he has super human consciousness.
But wolverine has beaten highly skilled fighters. Haft his rouge list are close to if not top tier fighters who are meta humans. You clearly don’t know his character.
False wolverine was not berserker, Capt thought he was Berserker because logans mind was that of a were wolfs. Logan still won and capt him self stated he was not holding back.
Originally posted by capt it up
You fail to understand that he ahs a healing factor that would heal any attack like that in seconds. He had swords in the same place on many occasions yet DD jab put him down> Ya that makes sense
ITS HIS WINDPIPE! Wolvie lost air and was struggling to breathe. Whats he gonna heal? Tell me please. Daredevil didnt break anything.🙄
Originally posted by capt it up
Not vs some one on his skill level who stronger then him.
Several times with people stronger than him. Secondly, it doesnt take much skill to put someone ina full nelson.😬
Originally posted by capt it up
He got hit in the adam’s apple which should have healed instantly. Logan has had swords in the same spot and kept fighting. What worse is he was in a berserker rage that never should have slowed him. He foughten ton’s of people under water while he was unable to breath and kept on swinging. The attack working was prue PIS as was the whole arch and you dam well know it.
Again. Whats to heal? Nothing was broke. Whether hes in beserk rage or not, he stillhas to breathe right? Uhh hes fought poeple under water while he was unable to breathe? Because he was holding his breath maybe? C'mon man. Daredevil gave him attack that he wasnt ready for. Its like getting the wind knocked out of you. It was PIS? Just like when Spider Woman caught Wolvie off guard and stabbed him in the throat with his own claws. It took him quite a few panels to heal from that as well. Not in the same place as Matt, but around the same area. I guess thats PIS too huh?
Originally posted by capt it up
But he is matt so your points mute.
No my point isnt moot. Matt wasnt himself during that whole time frame. Fighting or personality(slightly) wise.
Originally posted by capt it up
Ya because they all believe her. My point is not that he can beat DD. The point I am making is he still beat DD who fought differently, but none the less was a top tier combatant. Of course DD him self would not fight like that, but it still does not take away from the fact that wolverine was able to accomplish such a feat vs a top tier combatant.
Im not saying that Wolve cant beat DD. How can you call that a defeat? Wolvie put him in a full nelson. So? The fight was inconclusive. THATS why you cant call that a defeat. Him putting DD in a full neson is a feat? Ok.
Originally posted by capt it up
Don’t be ridiculous the fight was over. There was no way he was going to get out of that.
The fight could have continued. DD has been put in full nelsons by poeple who were stronger than him. Hes beat them too. Just like he actually beat Wolvie. That was conclusive.
Originally posted by Buccaneer
jrod, Cap also thrashed DD in an older DD comic, and when Faustus hypnotized Cap.[QUOTE=8516259]Originally posted by Buccaneer
[B]I have the comics. If you recall, the issue was whether he can be hurt. Of course he could beat the geezer, but what you said is Cap couldn't hurt him. If he takes the right amount of hard blows, he could feel just as much pain or be knocked out like anyone else.
Originally posted by Buccaneer
The point is that he should be able to withstand their blows,
Originally posted by Buccaneer
not that he didn't fight or beat them. Nowhere in his stats will you find that he has super human [b]consciousness. [/B]
Originally posted by Buccaneer
Meta humans, yes. Top tiers? eh. Because I'm just SO clueless, please tell me who these great fighters are. And please tell me where they are listed as one of the best in the universe.
The there sabertooth who was list on many occasions as being barely under Logan in skills. Logan been referenced as one of the greatest fighters in the world.
Silver samurai has been stated as one of the best sword fighters in the world.
Deathstrike has bee stated as almost as skilled as Logan in fighting.
Omega red has constantly been comented on his skills
Cyber was stated as being possibly as skilled as Wolverine.
Originally posted by Buccaneer
Berserk isn't something invented by Marvel for Wolverine. Berserk is an actual state. Being bloodlusting, wild, and immune to the sensation of pain IS berserk.
actaully it is. There are many versions of berserker rage. Marvel them self’s have there own version that goes with many books. Here there version of wolverines berserker rage
Wolverine The Crunch Conundrum 1 of 3 Cry Of Madness issue 51: Wolverine Maxes out the Danger room well costing in Neutral.
http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserker27ojlu9.jpg
Originally posted by Buccaneer
jrod, Cap also thrashed DD in an older DD comic, and when Faustus hypnotized Cap.
Yea i have that comic as well. Daredevil wasnt actually really trying to fight Cap. Just snap him out of it. Plus, besides Caps first suckerpunch the fight was stalemated. Counting DD's slap on Cap to snap him out of it ofcourse.
Originally posted by jrodslam
ITS HIS WINDPIPE! Wolvie lost air and was struggling to breathe. Whats he gonna heal? Tell me please. Daredevil didnt break anything.🙄
Hell in the same arch Logan had haft his body burned away and he was still totally conscious and yet a jab to the through took him out?
Originally posted by jrodslam
Several times with people stronger than him. Secondly, it doesnt take much skill to put someone ina full nelson.😬
Originally posted by jrodslam
Again. Whats to heal? Nothing was broke.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Whether hes in beserk rage or not, he stillhas to breathe right? Uhh hes fought poeple under water while he was unable to breathe? Because he was holding his breath maybe? C'mon man.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Daredevil gave him attack that he wasnt ready for.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Its like getting the wind knocked out of you. It was PIS?
Originally posted by jrodslam
Just like when Spider Woman caught Wolvie off guard and stabbed him in the throat with his own claws. It took him quite a few panels to heal from that as well. Not in the same place as Matt, but around the same area. I guess thats PIS too huh?
Originally posted by jrodslam
No my point isnt moot. Matt wasnt himself during that whole time frame. Fighting or personality(slightly) wise.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Im not saying that Wolve cant beat DD. How can you call that a defeat? Wolvie put him in a full nelson. So? The fight was inconclusive. THATS why you cant call that a defeat. Him putting DD in a full neson is a feat? Ok.
Originally posted by jrodslam
The fight could have continued. DD has been put in full nelsons by poeple who were stronger than him. Hes beat them too. Just like he actually beat Wolvie. That was conclusive.
He was not going to get out he was beaten. He never gotten out of a nelson by some one on his level of skill.
It was a PIS showing ive proven it to be PIS. It a fact the whole arch was PIS and it sad your using it as evidence.
Originally posted by capt it up
First of all your evidence your using was a wolverine on the verge of death. That geezer was one of the greatest swordsmen in the world. So your evidence for why capt can hurt wolverine is the fact that a highly skilled man who was consider peak-human was able to hurt a dieing wolverine? Not to mention that was wolverine before massive up grades to his healing factor.
I didn't ask a question of how many excuses there could have been. Was Wolverine hurt by the hits? Yes. That was my point. Case closed. Dying doesn't matter, it's not like you're physically more vulnerable all around if you've been poisoned.
Also logan is many times harder to knock out then a normal human. his bones are adamatium and his muscles were chemically treated by weapon x to be well beyond human durability.
Good for him. But being knocked out isn't a matter of bones or muscles. Your brain can be rattled regardless of how hard your skeleton is, and that's what could do it.
So now you decide what a character can and can’t do? Even though marvel created him to do so? Your ridiculous. He has been doing it since his career began and yet you are trying to say he can’t do what he was created to do? If that your argument you are one sad person.
You mean constitution. By the way he does. He has superhuman durability he was born with and then it was altered even further by weapon x program ( weapon-x novel) so you were saying? Also it been stated that his organs reforn instantly when damage allow him to remain on KOed.
Ogun was listed as the best sword men to ever live. He also been referenced as the best fighter to ever live. He is easily a top tier martial artist. He and stick are possibly the greatest to ever live.
The there sabertooth who was list on many occasions as being barely under Logan in skills. Logan been referenced as one of the greatest fighters in the world.
Silver samurai has been stated as one of the best sword fighters in the world.
Deathstrike has bee stated as almost as skilled as Logan in fighting.Omega red has constantly been comented on his skills
Cyber was stated as being possibly as skilled as Wolverine.
actaully it is. There are many versions of berserker rage.
Wikipedia does wonders, my friend. Check it out if you ever have some free time.
