Storm vs Cyclops

Started by yestinchong4 pages

Which brings up an interesting point in comics - if Storm is attuned to the environment and is able to anticipate attacks, how on Earth did Black Panther manage to sneak up on her in his most recent issue? I'm pretty sure Wolverine has does this on a number of occasions too. Why does she get hit in hand to hand fights with people if she can anticipate their actions? How come she HAS been tagged before by Cyclops if she can anticipate his blasts? Or anyone else's attacks for that matter?

I suppose you could say that she has this ability turned on and off at times, but if that is the case, then why does she still get hit in combat situations?

There's just too much inconsistency in the way comics are written to prove or disprove all of the above.

So that's why i'm going back to basics and giving you my opinion. And sure, it's only my opinion. I think it's actually quite silly to write stuff like, "lightning>>>>>>>>>>>>>>concussive force blast" when i have told you about and shown you the scans that show that his blasts move at the speed of light.

I still find it a bit difficult to comprehend how she can produce energy forms out of nowhere "instantly". It's a hard one to explain, but if she summons lightning let's say, she can't just produce it out of her hands or let it flow from her eyes in the same way that Cyclops does for his power. She's got to manipulate the weather patterns and energy spectrums she sees and then make them do as she pleases. Now, she might be able to do this VERY VERY quickly, and subconsciously for that matter, but the point i have is that the matter still has to come from somewhere from where it wasn't necessarily before. This is is going to create a delay, no matter how short. Personally, i would view it as a delay of seconds - which is still testimony as to how powerful Storm is - i mean, how quickly can a lightning bolt just appear out of nowhere in our world?

The difference with Cyclops (again, let me stress this is only my opinion), is that his power is always turned ON. Eyes are open = energy will come out. I've already said that his firing time is at the "suddeness of thought", and the scans show the blasts move at the speed of light. So in that argument of "who fires first?", i'm still plumping for Scott.

Now, to attempt to answer your questions starlock:

- First of all, what made you think i was debating your stance, and solely your stance, from my first post??? All i was doing was putting my opinion in based on everything i hd read on this thread. Having said that, i'm happy to addess your points now.

- You said she could summon up a hurricane or fly before he fired. That she didn't need to go through those thought processes i mentioned. I beg to differ. Are you saying to me that she doesn't need to think that she needs to fly up or summon a hurricane? That she acts purely autonomically with no higher functions to tell her that she is in danger? Again, if this was the case, why has she been hit before? I would say that Storm, like any other person, still needs to THINK about doing something before she does it. That's not me saying she is useless - merely that she is human in that particular respect.

- Yes, i do believe that Cyclops always goes first, for the reasons i stated in my first post.

- Can she defend against his blasts? Well, i think if she had time to build up a sufficient shield, then sure she could protect herself. A Storm fan may say she can build up Jovian pressur fields that could easily stop his blasts. To that, as a Cyclops fan, i simply quote an issue of UXM where it clearly states that Cyke could pulverise adamantium. Do i genuinely believe he can do that? Well, my opinion is no, but if people believe that about Storm, then i am certainly entitled to do the same for Scott.

- So it comes down to speed of firing again....and well, ^^^

- I am happy to concede that Scott wouldn't take any hits from Storm well at all. I am also happy to concede that she has far more defence and variety in her powers. It's just that thisd fight relies upon who hits first. And Cyclops can do that.

Originally posted by yestinchong
Which brings up an interesting point in comics - if Storm is attuned to the environment and is able to anticipate attacks, how on Earth did Black Panther manage to sneak up on her in his most recent issue? I'm pretty sure Wolverine has does this on a number of occasions too. Why does she get hit in hand to hand fights with people if she can anticipate their actions? How come she HAS been tagged before by Cyclops if she can anticipate his blasts? Or anyone else's attacks for that matter?

I suppose you could say that she has this ability turned on and off at times, but if that is the case, then why does she still get hit in combat situations?

There's just too much inconsistency in the way comics are written to prove or disprove all of the above.

So that's why i'm going back to basics and giving you my opinion. And sure, it's only my opinion. I think it's actually quite silly to write stuff like, "lightning>>>>>>>>>>>>>>concussive force blast" when i have told you about and shown you the scans that show that his blasts move at the speed of light.

I still find it a bit difficult to comprehend how she can produce energy forms out of nowhere "instantly". It's a hard one to explain, but if she summons lightning let's say, she can't just produce it out of her hands or let it flow from her eyes in the same way that Cyclops does for his power. She's got to manipulate the weather patterns and energy spectrums she sees and then make them do as she pleases. Now, she might be able to do this VERY VERY quickly, and subconsciously for that matter, but the point i have is that the matter still has to come from somewhere from where it wasn't necessarily before. This is is going to create a delay, no matter how short. Personally, i would view it as a delay of seconds - which is still testimony as to how powerful Storm is - i mean, how quickly can a lightning bolt just appear out of nowhere in our world?

The difference with Cyclops (again, let me stress this is only my opinion), is that his power is always turned ON. Eyes are open = energy will come out. I've already said that his firing time is at the "suddeness of thought", and the scans show the blasts move at the speed of light. So in that argument of "who fires first?", i'm still plumping for Scott.

Now, to attempt to answer your questions starlock:

- First of all, what made you think i was debating your stance, and solely your stance, from my first post??? All i was doing was putting my opinion in based on everything i hd read on this thread. Having said that, i'm happy to addess your points now.

- You said she could summon up a hurricane or fly before he fired. That she didn't need to go through those thought processes i mentioned. I beg to differ. Are you saying to me that she doesn't need to think that she needs to fly up or summon a hurricane? That she acts purely autonomically with no higher functions to tell her that she is in danger? Again, if this was the case, why has she been hit before? I would say that Storm, like any other person, still needs to THINK about doing something before she does it. That's not me saying she is useless - merely that she is human in that particular respect.

- Yes, i do believe that Cyclops always goes first, for the reasons i stated in my first post.

- Can she defend against his blasts? Well, i think if she had time to build up a sufficient shield, then sure she could protect herself. A Storm fan may say she can build up Jovian pressur fields that could easily stop his blasts. To that, as a Cyclops fan, i simply quote an issue of UXM where it clearly states that Cyke could pulverise adamantium. Do i genuinely believe he can do that? Well, my opinion is no, but if people believe that about Storm, then i am certainly entitled to do the same for Scott.

- So it comes down to speed of firing again....and well, ^^^

- I am happy to concede that Scott wouldn't take any hits from Storm well at all. I am also happy to concede that she has far more defence and variety in her powers. It's just that thisd fight relies upon who hits first. And Cyclops can do that.

i am being objective, if you can say for sure he goes first evey time are you being objective? i have not seen nowhere that scott activates his visor psychicly(in any roleplaying system there are rules as is on these forums)
but you think he goes first cool,she can do nothing?(in any comic they try to dodge,errect a forcefiled)
so if he always goes first and she has a slim chance to defend well(every comic role-playing system has these rules as depicted in comics where dodging and force fields are shown) that is an edge for her

scott has to at least activate his visor for control,or take his glasses off,(i will even say his eyes are always open)
Storm what does she have to do? i gave it to you at 1 in your table i stated my hurricane(omni directional) attack
this is where it is debatable he goes first EVERYTIME?

can we debate who goes fist always! in my opinon yes
can we debate storm has a chance(even if slim) to defend herself- no
can we debate cyke has no defence against storm- no
(all in my opinon)
its a forum fight with standard rules( the thread starter did not specify)
i think they know they are going to fight right? so no prep time k
even if all this is debatable then as a objective reader i go to defence

can storm in any way protect herself from an optic blast?
can cyke defend against a hurricane,lowering of temp,etc.etc
thats why i choose storm over cyke
pleasure debating with you 馃檪

As Yestinchong said it all depends on the writer. IMHO, both characters have shown an amazing level of power and skill, which make this a difficult fight.

Now, I personally think that Storm would win majority because she can create lightning bolts several inches around Cyke's head. Some of you forget that Storm can make a lightning bolt appear wherever she wants it. Also, thanks to Black Panther # 25, this now includes the inside of a foe's body.

There also an issue of Wolverine that states that as easy as it is for Jean to project a Tk bolt (which some feel move at the speed of thought), it is just as easy for Storm to conjure up a hurricane force winds. Now I don't know if that a direct comparison of speed but it dose give you an idea on how fast Storm can command the weather.

did she create that EMP inside clor's head, or did she shoot it at him???

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Storm doesn't have to look at you to hit you. in Xtreme she hit Emma Frost with a lightning bolt and was NOT looking let alone AIMING, all while being mentally assaulted.

Storm has VER FAST superhuman reflexes due to her attunement to her enviroment that's why she was able to dodge Cycs blast, Thors Hammer, and a sno-ball hurled by Bishop witout even LOOKING.

Storm can also see the world as energy patterns and see Cycs impulses and know what he's going to do before he does it.

Lightning>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cuncussive force with regard to ability to incapasitate

Storm's range>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cycs

She can affect the weather in a LARGE area.

Storm's powers work sub-conciously. She doesn't truly have to complete at thought in order for her powers to manifest.

Storm wins 8/10-10/10

Hah! 馃槺

Oh, man. I can't even begin to say how inaccurate all of that is.

Cyclops wins 9/10. He's faster on the draw.

Cyclops takes off his visor.....

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Cyclops takes off his visor.....

In the two or three seconds it would takes for him to do that, Storm would have already struke him with a lightning bolt.

God save him, if he has to unhook or remove something first. 馃槈

Originally posted by Soljer
This has been done.

It's a fast draw scenario.

pretty much...

who goes first ....debatable
what is not is the fact that cyclops has no defense against her attacks that are
non aiming
from every angle
and activated with out any need for
movement
a gesture
verbal command

can storm defend herself in any way ,i think so

Storm wins

Originally posted by yestinchong
Which brings up an interesting point in comics - if Storm is attuned to the environment and is able to anticipate attacks, how on Earth did Black Panther manage to sneak up on her in his most recent issue? I'm pretty sure Wolverine has does this on a number of occasions too. Why does she get hit in hand to hand fights with people if she can anticipate their actions? How come she HAS been tagged before by Cyclops if she can anticipate his blasts? Or anyone else's attacks for that matter?

I suppose you could say that she has this ability turned on and off at times, but if that is the case, then why does she still get hit in combat situations?

There's just too much inconsistency in the way comics are written to prove or disprove all of the above.

So that's why i'm going back to basics and giving you my opinion. And sure, it's only my opinion. I think it's actually quite silly to write stuff like, "lightning>>>>>>>>>>>>>>concussive force blast" when i have told you about and shown you the scans that show that his blasts move at the speed of light.

I still find it a bit difficult to comprehend how she can produce energy forms out of nowhere "instantly". It's a hard one to explain, but if she summons lightning let's say, she can't just produce it out of her hands or let it flow from her eyes in the same way that Cyclops does for his power. She's got to manipulate the weather patterns and energy spectrums she sees and then make them do as she pleases. Now, she might be able to do this VERY VERY quickly, and subconsciously for that matter, but the point i have is that the matter still has to come from somewhere from where it wasn't necessarily before. This is is going to create a delay, no matter how short. Personally, i would view it as a delay of seconds - which is still testimony as to how powerful Storm is - i mean, how quickly can a lightning bolt just appear out of nowhere in our world?

The difference with Cyclops (again, let me stress this is only my opinion), is that his power is always turned ON. Eyes are open = energy will come out. I've already said that his firing time is at the "suddeness of thought", and the scans show the blasts move at the speed of light. So in that argument of "who fires first?", i'm still plumping for Scott.

Now, to attempt to answer your questions starlock:

- First of all, what made you think i was debating your stance, and solely your stance, from my first post??? All i was doing was putting my opinion in based on everything i hd read on this thread. Having said that, i'm happy to addess your points now.

- You said she could summon up a hurricane or fly before he fired. That she didn't need to go through those thought processes i mentioned. I beg to differ. Are you saying to me that she doesn't need to think that she needs to fly up or summon a hurricane? That she acts purely autonomically with no higher functions to tell her that she is in danger? Again, if this was the case, why has she been hit before? I would say that Storm, like any other person, still needs to THINK about doing something before she does it. That's not me saying she is useless - merely that she is human in that particular respect.

- Yes, i do believe that Cyclops always goes first, for the reasons i stated in my first post.

- Can she defend against his blasts? Well, i think if she had time to build up a sufficient shield, then sure she could protect herself. A Storm fan may say she can build up Jovian pressur fields that could easily stop his blasts. To that, as a Cyclops fan, i simply quote an issue of UXM where it clearly states that Cyke could pulverise adamantium. Do i genuinely believe he can do that? Well, my opinion is no, but if people believe that about Storm, then i am certainly entitled to do the same for Scott.

- So it comes down to speed of firing again....and well, ^^^

- I am happy to concede that Scott wouldn't take any hits from Storm well at all. I am also happy to concede that she has far more defence and variety in her powers. It's just that thisd fight relies upon who hits first. And Cyclops can do that.

Wow. You put it excellently, what alot of people are unwilling to do is admit that they are putting in alot of their own opinion not just facts.

Originally posted by starlock
who goes first ....debatable
what is not is the fact that cyclops has no defense against her attacks that are
non aiming
from every angle
and activated with out any need for
movement
a gesture
verbal command

can storm defend herself in any way ,i think so

Storm wins

he doesn't need a defence if he hits her first, which he is entirely capable of doing... 馃槵

thing is if not for his reflexes, he'd probably have been killed a long, long time ago...

^^^
Thanks!
And that's fine by me, if we didn't have opinions, the world will be a very boring place.

starlock: i'm now a bit confused as to what you are saying. You just said you were being objective, and have questioned whether or not i was being the same......i don't remember writing anywhere in that long post reply to you that i was being objective. In fact, i do recall writing i was going back to basics and giving you my OPINION. And that is what i am continuing to do.

HandofFate: you made an interesting comment about how Ororo could generate her powers as easily and as quickly as Jean would a TK bolt. Cool, i can't remember reading that so thanks for the education. What still boggles my mind is WHERE she generates it from. When i said i was going back to basics, i would still like to know how she does what she does. Scott's powers are easier to understand to me (God forbid i'm trying to understand comic book fiction). His eyes are gateways to a non-Einsteinian universe and energy from that universe comes straight from there when open. It's about as simple as that.

Now let's look at Storm. MY understanding of things (and someone correct me if i'm wrong) is that she is sees the world as an energy pattern - and she can manipulate it as she sees fit. So if she wants to make it rain, she has to shift the relevant water molecules/humidity/cloud cover/air pressure to do so. Then it rains. Same goes for lightning, wind, snow....

Therefore she is kinda defined by her surrounding environment. If there's not much water in the air at the time and she wants to make a massive tsunami, she's gonna have to pull those water molecules in from somewhere. And i think that is going to take her SOME time to o so. She can't do it instantly like Cyclops can with his power, because hers are still partially governed by the "normal" universe's laws.

Is this making any sense??? Haha.....anyway, THAT is why i say she can't be as quick on the draw as Scotty, and why he always gets the first attack off.

Let me put it to people again - she clearly had to concentrate to generate that EMP in Clor's head in BP's latest issue. Whilst it's an amazing feat in its own right and she was flying away and multi-tasking, the panels in that comic are definitley showing her focussing on generating a specific energy pattern before employing it. So how can people say she doesn't have a delay, albeit a minor one?

Now - as i also said, it is open to debate how quickly Scott can get his visor open. Some sources will say he has to press a stud on his glove or the visor itself. Others will say it's psionically controlled now (and i still don't recall where it came from....but it's not just me on these forums that things that). I have used that quote that he can fire with the "suddeness" of thought".

Now there's a pretty big spectrum of exactly how fast he can fire....a matter of nanoseconds to a full blown second or two. What is the truth? The answer is nobody knows.....

But this inconsistency plagues Storm as well.....

And that is why i said i would try and break it down and look at it from a more logical standpoint....and well, my opinion hasn't changed on who fires first....

Phew....

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Storm could just Ionise the ATMOSPHERE and electrocute him. He has to aim at her and shoot her. Notwithstanding the fact that she can either dodge his optic blast or block the concussive force with a high density pressure dome.

I think people underestemate Storm's control over the weather.

The EMP in Black Panther was bad writing in that in Xtreme, she did an EMP with a SMILE on her face without ANY effort or concentration.

Storm controls the fundemental forces that govern the universe by DEFAULT because of her weather munipulating abilities.

Storm wins 8/10-10/10