Vodo-Siosk Baas

Started by darthsith193 pages

Originally posted by Blaxican
Actually...

How is Exar even above Maul? We haven't seen Kun fight anyone even remotely impressive except for Vodo, the old past his prime crab who was using a stick and was more then likely fighting half-heartedly.

Yeah... about that Exar Kun.


Kun had a stalemate with Ulic before obtaining his double-bladed lightsaber and Ulic is beyond remotely impressive. He beat Mandalore, with a weapon that he had never used before, while on unfamiliar and uneven terrain, without a mount when Mandalore did have a mount. For a while he even turned off his saber and fought unarmed and dodged all of Mandalore's attacks. If I am not mistaken, Mandalore is pretty much the same rank as Jango Fett was (Jango wasn't called Mandalore but he pretty much was). That's impressive. And the first time that Kun beat Vodo Vodo wasn't fighting half-heartedly.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Darth Maul "mastered the lightsaber," and seeing as how Vodo was beat with one swing of Kun's double bladed saber, I doubt he would hold off against Maul. The same thing could be applied to Asajj.

Are you trying to put a Padawan above Maul?


Yes, I am, surely Anakin in his prime as a Padawan would beat Maul so it's not impossible for a Padawan to be above Maul or anything.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Kun had a stalemate with Ulic before obtaining his double-bladed lightsaber and Ulic is beyond remotely impressive. He beat Mandalore, with a weapon that he had never used before, while on unfamiliar and uneven terrain, without a mount when Mandalore did have a mount. For a while he even turned off his saber and fought unarmed and dodged all of Mandalore's attacks. If I am not mistaken, Mandalore is pretty much the same rank as Jango Fett was (Jango wasn't called Mandalore but he pretty much was). That's impressive. And the first time that Kun beat Vodo Vodo wasn't fighting half-heartedly.

Could you post the scan of Kun stalemating Ulic? I don't remember that part for some reason...

As for Mandalor, if he is on par with Jango then that means that he could be topped by Aotc Kenobi... still doesn't speak very highly of him. Also could you post the scan with Exar turning his lightsaber off?

And as for the "first time" they fought I'm assuming your talking about after he got slashed on the face? I doubt Vodo was going "all out". He was fighting to teach his Padawan a lessen, not kill him or injure him.

Originally posted by Blaxican
We haven't seen Kun fight anyone even remotely impressive except for Vodo

This would seem absolutely correct, except for the fact that you excluded his duel with Ulic Qel-Droma, which was a complete stalemate:

Originally posted by Advent
Then you'd be wrong. They were sheer equals during their battle in DLotS, as described by the omniscient narrator:

"Both Jedi are master swordsman -- neither can claim an advantage with the lightsaber!", which clearly indicates that, indeed, neither would be able to overcome the other.

To go along with that, there are a few excerpts which cite that there'd be no winner, or at the least, "their battle might have gone on for hours[...]" (Darkside Sourcebook, p. 76). That, along with, "they were too evenly matched for one to claim the advantage" (paraphrased from DSSB).

That'd be the same Ulic, who's got a list of achievements under his belt:

Originally posted by Advent
And this is Exar when he had already gotten his Sith Amulet by this point (as had Ulic), and had already showed us what the amulet is capable of (disintegrating Massassi, blasting through a Sith Wyrm and temple rock, and destroyed Nadd). Exar had also studied under Nadd's spirit, and taken several scrolls from his tomb. As well, he'd already gotten Sadow's teachings, and also made the sphere that trapped the Massassi and drained their life energies.

As well, he was described as master lightsaber duelist, but enough about his stalemate of Exar Kun (who, at that point, I'd put above Malak and the SF anyways).

He was also the only Jedi out of his party to withstand King Ommin's darkside energies (that consumed Arca, and disrupted Nomi):

And he also killed Warb Null, who cut off Cay's arm, and apparently has powers that disrupt the Jedi train of thought or something to that effect:

As well, he also owned the Beast Riders who had weapons described twice as "very powerful", and owned the beasts of Dxun:

Ulic does have a "grasp over the Force that is great" (described as such when he battles Mandalore) though.

As well, he was able to fend off Sylvar, who was an enraged Jedi master, feeding into the darkside of the Force, for an unimaginable amount of time, even after being cut off from the Force nearly ten years ago, and more than likely out of practice. This feat is impressive in itself, due to the fact that he had absolutely no precognition, or assistance with the Force, whereas Sylvar had both, and her attack was fueled by the ferocity of the darkside (which increases power, and strength, obviously; see: TPM, RotJ, RotS), as previously mentioned.

Indeed, you probably haven't seen much, due to the fact your blind as a bat. But, for the rest of the world who has perfect vision, we'll note the fact that he was, even during DLotS, sheer equals with Ulic in bladed combat. Try equipping your spectacles next time.

the old past his prime crab

"Past his prime"? Where do you see any evidence to suggest this? Actually, forget that question, seeing as it's already been established your vision is faulty.

Jokes aside, nothing indicates he was over his limit. Yoda was 800 plus years old during the PT, yet he was still the most powerful Jedi up to that point. Just because he was 600 odd years of age, doesn't necessarily mean he was "past his prime". Although, if you want to supply proof, by all means, do so. However, trying to downplay Vodo (and Kun's feat), though, is a mistake.

who was using a stick

Irrelevant, insomuch as the fact that he's been stated to have "wielded a common quarterstaff in combat as effectively as most Jedi used a lightsaber" (Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, p. 102), would lead one to believe just that. That's he's not at any disadvantage.

and was more then likely fighting half-heartedly.

Irrelevant, insomuch as the fact he was stated as "[being] no match for Exar Kun's double-bladed lightsaber and deep reserve of dark side power" (Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, p. 102), and "not having a chance" (Darkside Sourcebook, p. 78), would lead one to believe that whether or not he wasn't giving his all - it wouldn't have change the outcome, and he'd still be slaughtered by Kun.

Also could you post the scan with Exar turning his lightsaber off?

Exar didn't battle Mandalore the Indomitable, Ulic did. And he did so with the specifications darthsith mentioned, which gave Mandalore a huge advantage:


Regardless of the benefits, Ulic took the machine out with casual ease, and then manages to defeat Mandalore without his lightsaber, as you can see in the last scan ("I can defeat you, regardless of the weapon, Mandalore." -- he dueled unarmed for a few panels). He used a ****ing Mandalorian battle axe to conquer him (obviously, a foreign weapon to him, whereas it was common among the Mandalorians).

Thanks for the scans 🙂 Were the hell have you been anyhoo? You don't have a... *gasp* LIFE do you?

What the hell is this "a life" you speak of?

not sure. However, I'd like to note that I didn't read any of your post. I just looked at the scans 😐

There's also the fact that Exar Kun was able to break through Vodo's stick, which could not only withstand the cutting power of a lightsaber, but was also directly stated as being stronger than one. That display of strength is probably the greatest we've ever seen in Star Wars, I mean think about it: he was able to generate enough kinetic damage with an object that has no weight to break through something that could withstand its cutting power. That's incredible.

Here's some stuff on Ulic that Advent missed out:

http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=127

He was able to blast both Cay and Nomi back some pretty nice distance with waves of darkside energies purely by shouting, so that was without even focusing the attack.

http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=144

He was able to push Nomi away and weaken her with a sith amulet, and he seemed to only be using just a portion of his power.

http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=152

Here, Aleema can see that Ulic is 'rippling with darkside energy... more power than all her sith magic has given her.'

http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=6&page=113
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=6&page=114
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=6&page=115

Even after having been cut off from the force, he was still able to vanish to the spiritual plane upon death, which is something only a true jedi master can usually achieve.

http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=3&page=005

He was insanely quick and agile too, and this is when he's just a padawan, and before turning to the darkside and obtaining a sith amulet.

5 would be hard.

He will stop at 6. And even if he manages to beat Obi-Wan then 7 is the last one.

Dooku will defeat him.

He loses at Dooku, The Man.

Jango is the best Mandalore.

And he wasn't beaten by AOTC Kenobi.

And he wouldn't have been beaten by Mace if it hadn't been for the whole being trampled bit. Well, he would have lasted longer, at least.

I'd say Vodo makes it to Dooku at the minumum. He probably wins there too. The guy's experince comes closer to that of Yoda than anyone with the possible exception of Odan. Also, he did hown his own against Exar for quite some time. Yes, he did lose in the end, but so would any group in this gauntlet if they went against Exar. Also, Vodo was intrusted with training Exar, who the Order must have known had a ridiculous amount of Force Potential. For all the reasons stated above I think he make it at least to Sidious and probably wins there too.

Agreed, and to add on to the whole being Exar's teacher thing, the teachings contained in his holocron were considered some of the most valuable pieces of Jedi History by Mikal (historian) in KotOR 3, so in terms of knowledge, he's likely right up there (along with Yoda and Odan).

Originally posted by Count Makashi
He loses at Dooku, The Man.

And he wouldn't have been beaten by Mace if it hadn't been for the whole being trampled bit. Well, he would have lasted longer, at least.

The hell... You;re trying to say that Jango could have beaten Mace? Lol, no, AOTC Kenobi was on par with him and that was when he was trying not to kill Jango, AND Jango had Boba helping him. Mace is not only quite a ways above AOTC Kenobi, he's even above ROTS Kenobi, and Kenobi got quite a bit stronger between films.

The hell... You;re trying to say that Jango could have beaten Mace

And he wouldn't have been beaten by Mace if it hadn't been for the whole being trampled bit. Well, he would have lasted longer, at least.
AOTC Kenobi was on par with him and that was when he was trying not to kill Jango, AND Jango had Boba helping him.

On par with Jango? Eh... It wasn't even much of a fight, both lost their weapons if I remember and then Jango nearly fell. THat's about it. All Kenob did was block some shots and get snagged by Jango's grappling line.

What a titanic clash.

Mace is not only quite a ways above AOTC Kenobi, he's even above ROTS Kenobi, and Kenobi got quite a bit stronger between films.

Agree here.

Vodo Siosk-Baas was one of the more powerful Jedi masters -- after all, the guy wields a staff, and augments it, *using the Force*, so that it could match lightsaber blades. And then he dueled one of the most deadly Dark Side wielders in history with it. That's pretty awesome, and that's not taking into account any of his more relevant feats.

He doesn't make it all the way through, but he gets most of the way. I'd say that it could go either way at eight, but that he definitely loses at nine. Darth Sidious is too powerful for him, though the fight still might last a while.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I'd say Vodo makes it to Dooku at the minumum. He probably wins there too. The guy's experince comes closer to that of Yoda than anyone with the possible exception of Odan. Also, he did hown his own against Exar for quite some time. Yes, he did lose in the end, but so would any group in this gauntlet if they went against Exar. Also, Vodo was intrusted with training Exar, who the Order must have known had a ridiculous amount of Force Potential. For all the reasons stated above I think he make it at least to Sidious and probably wins there too.

Oh, PLEASE! He's not even touching one of the most powerful Jedi masters in histor.y

'Held his own?' Right, he held his own against a padawan...and was toyed with and destroyed by a Sith Lord.

and no, not 'everyone' in this gauntlet would lose fi they went up against Exar.

Really, glentract, how pathetic is this? You ahve any evidence to back up this fanboy crap? Any top tier PT Jedi would turn Vodo into crabcakes. "He makes it up to Sidious and wins."
Bullshit. Sorry. What'd Vodo do that was ever impressive...? Oh, right, he beat a padawan-and lost shortly later....and he can make a STICK saber resistant, OMG!

Maul slaughters him. Period. Vodo's just not a top tier, and this was shown by our last 'debate' at EoD. Which was really you continuing bleating out Vodo's praises without an ounce of proof

If he magically makes it to Maul, Maul saber rapes him.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I'd say Vodo makes it to Dooku at the minumum. He probably wins there too. The guy's experince comes closer to that of Yoda than anyone with the possible exception of Odan. Also, he did hown his own against Exar for quite some time. Yes, he did lose in the end, but so would any group in this gauntlet if they went against Exar. Also, Vodo was intrusted with training Exar, who the Order must have known had a ridiculous amount of Force Potential. For all the reasons stated above I think he make it at least to Sidious and probably wins there too.

Com on, he even defeats Sidious, the strongest Sith ever, while the strongest Jedi(Yoda) couldn't, don't tell me your a Vodo fanboy.