Vodo-Siosk Baas

There are all of four people who could defeat Darth Sidious, in a full, fair (not being supported by other people) match: Yoda, Mace Windu (only due to Vaapad, and only against ROTS Sidious, no later form), Anakin Skywalker, and Luke Skywalker. There's no doubt that Vodo is going to lose there; Darth Sidious is significantly more powerful than Exar Kun.

However, he has demonstrated sufficient ability to progress far elsewhere. While Maul may have been one of the "deadliest Sith apprentices in history", he was still only an apprentice, and it is evident that other Sith at other times have demonstrated greater ability, whether in the Force or in saber combat. Even if Vodo could not prevail in the latter, he has a good chance in the former, as Maul hasn't demonstrated particularly amazing force power.

While Maul may have been one of the "deadliest Sith apprentices in history", he was still only an apprentice

DARTH SIDIOUS: "This is an unexpected move for her. It's too aggressive.. Lord Maul, be mindful."

The Maul being one of the deadliest Sith Apprentices in history quote is referring to how strong he was as a Padawan. But he is stronger even by TPM, by which time he is a Sith Lord.

I just have to correct this:

Originally posted by darthsith19
The Maul being one of the deadliest Sith Apprentices in history quote is referring to how strong he was as a Padawan. But he is stronger even by TPM, by which time he is a Sith Lord.

No, it's accounting for his entire life as a Sith, which even goes up to the point of his death on Naboo.

Firstly, the Sith don't even have the rank of "padawan". Secondly, Darth Vader in RotJ is still an apprentice, as was Darth Tyranus in RotS, they were both serving under a Sith master, hence "apprentice".

The Sith of Bane's Order both take on the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith, but that still doesn't mean they disregard distinguishing master from apprentice, as much has been noted in the Darkside Sourcebook, among other various sources.

So, you're wrong; although, his point was rather absurd to begin with.

Good point, I concede, but Maul was considered fully trained, right?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, PLEASE! He's not even touching one of the most powerful Jedi masters in history.

I don't see where "being compareable to person X in terms of knowledge" means "being on par with them". Vodo's holocron was sited as one of the greatest source for knowledge one could possibly attain. I think for a reason.

By the way: How many people on that list are capable of resisting a "Wall of Light" attack ? Might be hard to fight a Jedi without having force powers...or did I miss the "this is melee combat only" ?

'Held his own?' Right, he held his own against a padawan...and was toyed with and destroyed by a Sith Lord.

If you want to get that polemic, I could say that Maul didn't manage to hold his own against a padawan. And being toyed and destroyed by the second most powerful (possibly) Sith Lord in history, at least one of the most powerful ones ? Shame on him for that. 🙄

and no, not 'everyone' in this gauntlet would lose fi they went up against Exar.

Sidious with two magnaguards might take Kun. But the rest ? I don't think so.

Really, glentract, how pathetic is this? You ahve any evidence to back up this fanboy crap? Any top tier PT Jedi would turn Vodo into crabcakes. "He makes it up to Sidious and wins."
Bullshit. Sorry. What'd Vodo do that was ever impressive...? Oh, right, he beat a padawan-and lost shortly later....and he can make a STICK saber resistant, OMG!

Vodo would die against Sidious. I'm pretty sure there. But the rest ?

Maul slaughters him. Period. Vodo's just not a top tier, and this was shown by our last 'debate' at EoD. Which was really you continuing bleating out Vodo's praises without an ounce of proof

Oh really ? Did I somehow miss that debate ? If you want to start like this I'd say that Vodo waves his hand and then Maul stands there, wondering why he can't use the force any longer. By the way: When did you see a force user with several centuries of age that was not Jedi Council material at the very least ? As Vodo stands in one line with people that tooled Ancient Sith (Odan) and survived force attacks capable of killing the life of an entire planet (Thon) I guess "not top tier" isn't the right description.

I don't think Vodo makes it past AOTC Kenobi. He could beat Aayla and Kit Fisto, but not Kenobi. TPM Kenobi was good enough to hold his own against Darth Maul, I don't see him losing to a Vodo by AOTC.

Nothing suggests Vodo is exceptional in saber combat.

Originally posted by Borbarad
I don't see where "being compareable to person X in terms of knowledge" means "being on par with them". Vodo's holocron was sited as one of the greatest source for knowledge one could possibly attain. I think for a reason.

Oh really ? Did I somehow miss that debate ? If you want to start like this I'd say that Vodo waves his hand and then Maul stands there, wondering why he can't use the force any longer. By the way: When did you see a force user with several centuries of age that was [b]not Jedi Council material at the very least ? As Vodo stands in one line with people that tooled Ancient Sith (Odan) and survived force attacks capable of killing the life of an entire planet (Thon) I guess "not top tier" isn't the right description. [/B]

And btw, what Ancient Sith did Odan 'tool?' Who, exactly, was left to fight that was so powerful? And where did Vodo stand abreast of someone like Thon? Thon was rather seperate from the council.

And yes, there was a debate at EoD. because I was arguing with Glentract for pages on why Vodo was never shown to be impressive, especially when compared to people like Yoda and Mace.
He had all of two battles against Exar, a minor confrontation with Freedon Nadd, and ganged up on Ulic.

Also, I could name quite a few Jedi of some centuries not on any council. Master Fay comes to mind instantly.

I'm not seeing how Vodo is going to be 'effortlessly' dominating these people. Especially not Yoda's pupil, one of the most powerful Jedi in history who was even more powerful as a Sith Lord? How will he even 'probably' defeat Sidious? Or Anakin, who defeated Dooku himself? And took out Cin Drallig?

Just not seeing where this 'Vodo is so uber, he's the Yoda of his time,, the Jedi Grandmaster, can take most PT Jedi' stuff comes from.

Feel free to call me an idiot, but I have not yet seen this overwhelming proof of Vodo's uberpower. The fact that he managed to use the Force to transform his walking stick into a weapon that was 'more powerful' than a lightsaber is pretty damn impressive, but what the hell does that mean in relation to... well... anything? Perhaps I'm not seeing the whole picture here, but how could Vodo defeat Count Dooku, who was one of the "most powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history" and an "even greater Sith Lord"?

Furthermore, Nai, didn't you say that Sidious might take Exar Kun, and that Vodo would 'definately lose' to Sidious? It is obvious that Sidious is better than Dooku, but by miles and miles? Hardly. Nothing to me indicates that Vodo is nothing but the next special at the local Red Lobster if he goes up against Dooku.

LOL@ Red Lobster