Yeah, from them. Intentionally.
Either way, it's clear that I've done them more than the courtesy of clearing up their misinterpretations and they just continue ignoring it, so it's obvious that nothing I say from this point on will bring them any closer to admitting their wrongdoings. As far as I'm concerned, it's over with me.
If Adam wants to continue the debate, re: Music, he can reply/PM and let me know.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So now it's "You started it!"? Get a grip. It shouldn't matter who did what first, what matters is why. I told you why, you ignored it and decided for yourself.
If by saying "you started it" is what it takes to illustrate that you're the one acting like a child, then that's what we'll say I was saying with that statement.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, I was always joking, except for the part about your posts reminding me you are gay, which despite not being a joke, isn't a diss either. You chose to misinterpret rather than clarify, which is why we're here.
It isn't a matter of it being a diss. It isn't something that insults me. It's a matter of saying one thing and then repeatedly saying you said another. All I said was that pointing out for everyone on the forum that I'm gay isn't necessary. At that point it was all still joking. But then saying that I can't speak on this forum without reminding everyone that I'm gay and you pretending that being ambigious in your statement is sufficient clarification. But that wasn't what happened. What happened was that you decided to pretend you didn't say what you said. And then you claimed victory as though this is a debate in which there is going to be a winner. That's the most childish aspect of you posting habits. We get into an argument and you rush back into the thread claiming victory? So I'll repeat my original point: Grow Up.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're wrong, and that's a fact. Why is it a fact? Because you are telling me what I said, what I meant, and neither are correct, because I am attempting to clarify just what it was I meant, despite it being obvious. I've done so, you've ignored it.
What am I wrong about? You're an abusive ass hole to everyone? That you clearly said I can't post without telling everyone I'm gay? That everything you accuse me of doing in regards to Elton John is not only EXACTLY what you do when you debate "musical merrit", but you tell everyone else that I only talk about Elton John because he's all I know. How many times in your response to Adam did you mention members of tool? Is Tool and Maynard all you know about? If not, then why are they the only ones you talk about? Why are you taking pictures of yourself with a scarf wrapped around your head? Are you saying that if you came across a picture of George Bush with a scarf wrapped around his head you would have taken the picture? That's bullshit. So, don't accuse me of knowing nothing about anyone other than Elton John or that I can't speak without mentioning him. Not while you're taking pictures of yourself dressed up like the lead singer of Tool.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Homosexual temper tantrum? I say you're throwing a temper tantrum and it's automatically a homosexual one? Why is that? I made a reference, jokingly, to Elton John doing the same thing. I never said your tantrums are "homosexual". What are you on about?
What are you on about? I said you have a sexual attraction to Tool? Feel free to tell me where I said it.
As for the homosexual temper tantrum, pointing out that I'm acting like Elton John for three pages would make it, in your opinion, a homosexual temper tantrum.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't resent your opinion of me, I resent you telling me that your opinion of me is fact. "You think...", no...you think I do, you choose to believe I do in the face of me saying I do not. I don't care what opinion you hold.
I didn't say my opinion of you was a fact. That would be a contradiction in terms. I have said from the beginning of this discussion that it was my opinion. Unless you think I'm making up the definition of opinion or fact.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I have reduced you to nothing more than whining out reasons for you not liking what kind of forum member I am. You tried to pin things on me, I disproved them, you're now trying to turn this into "You are this way, I know you are because I believe you are." in an act of sheer desperation.
Indeed. You've "reduced" me. I pin nothing on you the black and white words on the screen don't say, despite the fact that you want to pretend you said one thing and clearly meant another. Either you said what you said or you didn't. And you want to call me a coward? So, you want to say you're so powerful that you've reduced me to something or left me broken or what ever other tactic you want to employ to turn this conversation into the battle galactic you turn all of your arguments into in your own mind. Why, that sounds like someone being self important. Good for you.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Don't sit there and tell me what I think I am. If you think I think I am always right and everyone else is wrong, then that's up to you. Stupid, since I am telling you I do not, but up to you. Just don't put it across as fact, because I'm telling you that's not the case.
I am indeed telling you what you think you are. Very good of you to get one of these right. I'm telling you what you think of yourself because it's clear to everyone who reads anything you have to say. You can tell me you aren't arrogant and full of yourself until you're blue in the face, but your actions will always speak differently of you.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Funny, because I based my original "You remind me that you are gay.", on your posts, and you seemed to find that fitting to throw a wobbly over.
I'm sure because you're British and know what the term 'wobbly' means, you'll declare victory again and the music from Rocky will begin to play in your head. But, I don't know what wobbly means. I'm going to assume it means a hissy fit or something.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Don't talk to me of bringing up past, please. At least mine was to do with an interaction with you and me, what purpose did it serve to bring up a picture I posted and dressing as musicians?
Because you accused me of not being able to open my mouth with out bringing up Elton John or my sexuality. Well, I'm not the one posting pictures of myself dressed as my favorite musical artist. You are. You can't even debate music, as I said before, without talking about Tool. So don't tell me I'm something bad when you go above and beyond it with your own actions. So, good for you for bringing up the past.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Has there been much? NO. Has there been any? Yes, coincidentally a while ago.
Coincidentally what? Coincidentally you're wrong? If I can't open my mouth without mentioning my sexuality or Elton John, then we can't very well assume that your statment here is not an admission of being wrong. You just now want to act like it's what you've been saying all along. Which is not the case.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Here's the deal:I didn't accuse you of doing that. I simply said your posts remind me that you are gay. Rather than say "Why is that?", you decided to assume things, wrong things, things I have since countered and refuted
If you have the fortitude to go back and read my last post, you'll see that I placed in it a transcript of our entire interaction. Asking you why you said something I understood to be a joke would be ridiculous. But that is not what this is about, is it?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not saying I'm joking when I said your posts remind me, I said I was joking in the first comment.
As were my first statements. That's not up for debate. What is up for debate is the difference between what you said and apparently what you now want to pretend you meant.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Your posts DO remind me that you are gay, and I gave you examples as to why. One was you bringing up Elton John WHEN WE DISCUSS MUSIC, two was you having a known gay actor in your avatar.
Fine. If my posts remind you that I'm gay, that's just fine. But interacting with me in any way and repeating it outloud for the viewing audience isn't needed. They know, don't that? Since that's all I talk about. And you know, if I had an agenda that involved discussing my homosexuality, you've managed to showcase it for 14 pages.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Never did I say you have him there because you are gay, you came to that conclusion on your own.
Again, go back and read what you said. I posted in the last comment. You brought it up, not me.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Do you wish to continue this embarassing display? Because it's getting ridiculous.
It's getting ridiculous because of your antics, not my point. The only embarassing display is you patting yourself on the back over an argument you seem to think carried the weight of the eastern front.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Like I said, KidRock has relentlessly thrown anti-homosexual remarks and insults at you. He didn't get half the shit I'm getting. Instead, I get purposeful misinterpretation and false accusations in spite of clarification and fact.
And like I said, KidRock isn't the point. Don't deflect. No one said you hate gays. I said you are arrogant and full of yourself.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Go away now, before you embarass yourself further, Capt.-AC
That's okay, I think I'll stick around and watch you fight the final battle from Lord of the Rings in your own mind.
Capt, have you nothing better to do, you sad man?
If this whole fiasco isn't because you crave an audience, if it IS because you don't like your personal issues being brought up, then you'll stop hypocritically doing the same to me and continue this with me in PM. Let's see how eager you are to keep this debacle of misinterpretation and lies going when nobody's watching.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I said he can't post without reminding people, precisely. I said the correct thing. What YOU failed to do was ask for me to specify how he reminds me, or people. You didn't did you? You chose to assume that part. So once again, you're wrong. Bystanders have already said that my posts were simply being read into too much.Accept that you got it wrong, because you factually did. It's a fact because I know what I meant, and what I meant isn't what you CLAIM I meant.
Haha, you're still wrong. Nothing I said was incorrect. He does remind me that he's gay with every post. You simply failed to ask why, you assumed.
Yeah, you assumed and got it wrong. You're reading far too much into this, as previously noticed by other members.
Indicative? Clearly he is, whether or not he is intentionally is another matter. You say he isn't, he says he isn't, fine, I never BELIEVED otherwise. I said he merely reminds me that he is gay with every post, not that he does so intentionally. YOU assumed that and now you're continuing because you simply cannot accept the fact that you read too much into it.
If one reached a conclusion other than the one that you intended, then no, you did not “say the correct thing.” If you want others not to misinterpret what you say, try saying what you mean.
I did not ask you to specify how his posts remind others, i.e. you that he is a homosexual, because you already specified this in your post:
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If we discuss music; you bring up Elton John, if we discuss discrimination; homosexuality. Even your avatar is one of the world's most famous gay actors.
You did not state that his posts inadvertently act as a reminder to others that he is a homosexual (passive), but that he cannot post without reminding others that he is a homosexual (active):
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
. . . you can't seem to post without somehow reminding us that you are homosexual. If we discuss music; you bring up Elton John, if we discuss discrimination; homosexuality. Even your avatar is one of the world's most famous gay actors.
Would you like to do any more back peddling?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I agree, he's a good musician. Why do you feel you can ask me not to speak matter-of-factly about music and then make such a sweeping, generalising claim as saying Tool have never proven themselves to be better musicians? The correct thing you should say is "I have seen nothing that proves to me, that Tool are better musicians.".
I did not ask you to “not speak matter-of-factly about music,” I told you to not pretend to be the arbiter of which opinions are “knowledgeable and sound with regard to music appreciation and in the Music Discussion Forum.”
I did not state “Tool [has] never proven themselves to be better musicians.” I stated, “in their 16-year career, not a single member of Tool, or the band as a whole, has proved to be as talented and successful as Sir Elton John.”
The correct thing for me to say is exactly what I did say. In their 16-year career, not a single member of Tool, or the band as a whole, has done anything remotely comparable to Sir Elton John in terms of success.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Ability on one's instrument. If you transfered Elton John's piano talent to drums, he wouldn't be as good as Danny Carey.Danny Carey has garnered more technical praise over the years for his innovative and technically flawless playing than Elton John has for his. Elton John is a very good pianist because he was trained, but he's not innovative by any means. He doesn't play in a way that didn't exist before and hasn't existed since. There are concert pianists better than Elton John. There are more people in his field better than him than there are drummers better than Danny Carey.
Danny Carey plays in such a way that no drummer ever did, has or probably will. Playing in a fibonnaci time signature? Yeah, I'm sure Elton could nail that one. Either way, I will open a thread in the Music Discussion forum and you can reply to this part of the post there.
Do you wish for me to do this? If, of course, this is something you wish to discuss. I mean, if you are going to keep coming back and dragging this thread off topic then at least do so in a manner that doesn't belong in entirely the wrong forum. I referenced a musician, but if you wish to discuss music, come to the Music Discussion forum and we'll continue this.
I trust you're not afraid to, so shall I open a thread or not?
I suppose if the Super Soldier Serum was administered to James Barnes, he would not be as good a Captain America as Steve Rogers. That is speculation; there is no objective way to make that determination.
That Danny Carey has received more praise for playing the drums than Sir Elton John has for playing the piano is not indicative of who is a better musician when you consider that Danny Carey only has his drum playing ability to praise whereas Sir Elton John also composes music and sings.
Although, I am interested in how you reached the determination that Danny Carey has received more praise for playing the drums than Sir Elton John has for playing the piano.
Moreover, innovation is not indicative of success. One can be a success and not be an innovator, and one can be an innovator and not be a success.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Consider the time difference. There was nothing to do anyway by the time I was posting. It takes me minutes to post, seconds sometimes. I'm still trying to figure out why you and Capt feel the need to somehow weave a personal, presumptuous dig into your posts, while out of the other side of your mouthes, accuse me of having to insult.Either way, no, you clearly just came back hours later when the thread had moved on, when your friend had been proven wrong to the point of shame, and kick started the debate, didn't you? That's much better...
I am sorry, had I not more important things to do than to post on a message board intermittently over the course of six hours, I would have been able to respond to the post in which you directly addressed me in a more timely manner.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The one who misinterprets. I knew what I meant, it was obvious what I mean considering the fact that I explicitly said I DON'T think he goes around saying it. So, the fact that I said he doesn't say it proves that I don't believe he is intentionally indicative of his sexuality, as you insist I believed he was, and have since proven you wrong.So who's the bigger fool? The fool who is wrong, so blatantly, and admits it, or the one who, despite overwhelming proof, explanation and evidence, does not concede that he is wrong?
Just look at what's happening; He posts, I reply and prove him wrong, prove he misintepreted me, so he launches a tirade of insulting and dramatic posts. You post, misinterpret AGAIN and I confirm that you were wrong to do so, and wrong IN doing so.
That's what happened, Adam. You misinterpreted my post. Whether you believe it's my fault for being too vague, or whatever, you misintepreted it one way or the other. That's why we're here. Why you can't just accept you made a mistake and move on is beyond me.
-AC
To the contrary, the fool is the one who presumes that because “[he] knows what [he] means,” that everyone else does as well; the fool is the one who fails to structure his premises properly with respect to accent and amphiboly so that they will not be misinterpreted; the fool is the one who insults another for drawing a false conclusion based on his ambiguous premises.
You are three for three, would you like to go for more?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Capt, have you nothing better to do, you sad man?If this whole fiasco isn't because you crave an audience, if it IS because you don't like your personal issues being brought up, then you'll stop hypocritically doing the same to me and continue this with me in PM. Let's see how eager you are to keep this debacle of misinterpretation and lies going when nobody's watching.
-AC
Not at all. There's plenty to do. And judging by the length of your post, wouldn't this be considered a "panic post"?
To which personal issues do you refer? Nothing about our conversation has been about "personal issues".
It isn't about an audience AC, it's about you never being wrong or ill-informed or arrogant. You've had just as many chances to take it to PM. Have you done as much? Don't spew crap about needing an audience to me when it's the very reason you're on this forum at all. If you're tired of arguing, then stop posting. That's what I did in the music discussion forum. But, according to you I "ran from the forum with my tail tucked between my legs, never to return".
Capt:
I PMed you. I'm not tired of arguing, I'm tired of arguing about something that A) You are factually wrong about (See PM) and B) Has absolutely no place in this thread.
If you want to keep pleading your sad little case, do so to me in PM. I will continue to show you why you're wrong. My point being, it doesn't need to be done in public. I'll wait on your PM, Mr. It's not about an audience.
Adam:
A) You didn't answer my question regarding opening a thread. I'm not discussing it here, but if you do wish to discuss Elton John's talent as a musician (Not success, Britney Spears is successful, it means nothing) Vs, in this case, the people in Tool, I would be very happy to indulge you there. I act as if I am one of the most knowledgeable people there because I am.
B) So all it comes down to, having dealt with the above, is you saying that I failed because I didn't say he does so inadvertently. If that's the route you want to pursue, and you got confused, then you are quite clearly at fault also, since you, far from asking me if I meant "He does it on purpose.", chose to interpret my words in the incorrect way.
What I said was correct, you read too far into it. The fact that YOU considered it ambigious, and not clear enough for you (Boo hoo), does not make my claims any more false. You should have asked, I'm not here to cater to you. Moreover, you should have dropped it when I did clarify that I didn't mean he does it on purpose, but you didn't. So I'll say to you, as I did to Capt; If you wish to discuss further, I will PM you.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So all it comes down to, having dealt with the above, is you saying that I failed because I didn't say he does so inadvertently. If that's the route you want to pursue, and you got confused, then you are quite clearly at fault also, since you, far from asking me if I meant "He does it on purpose.", chose to interpret my words in the incorrect way.What I said was correct, you read too far into it. The fact that YOU considered it ambigious, and not clear enough for you (Boo hoo), does not make my claims any more false. You should have asked, I'm not here to cater to you. Moreover, you should have dropped it when I did clarify that I didn't mean he does it on purpose, but you didn't. So I'll say to you, as I did to Capt; If you wish to discuss further, I will PM you.
The only one who is crying about his posts being misinterpreted is you.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
You feel sorry for everyone because they're not you. So, how does that make me any different than anyone else you talk to?
Capt don't feel bad about yourself, you're a nice guy. Ask a question "would you want to be AC.....?" Hang on you are, you're AC but not DC. jk 🙂
- FO!!