Who is the strongest DC Character Abraxas could beat?

Originally posted by Mr Master
I said Spectre merged with the Source can take out Abraxas.

Normal Spectre can't (imo from what I know about him)

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yes he has.

I didn't get everyone to speculate, I constructed a comprehensible argument and enlightened the rest.

But I mean, speculated off of that scan of the "threatening" thing.

That wasn't a personal attack, so don't take it as one.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have both and read both, and it's still the Multiverse that Thanos absorbed.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Flaw was Univertsal, and Thnaos probably didn't have to Re-Create the enitre Multiverse to fix the problem, but he did anyway in an absorption frenzy.

That's why it's titled,

MARVEL: The End.

And please do show me where you read "ONE" Universe.

Or "A" universe

Or "Single" Universe.

You'll find "THE" Universe, which is the Marvel Universe = the Multiverse.

Does that mean numerous universes?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos Re-Created the Multiverse!

I think it, because of the On Panel proof and Official Bio stated by Marvel.

There is no on-panel evidence...
Wasn't it also stated to be a universe in LT's bio?
I'm too lazy to retrieve it though...

So, I'll stick to the comics...

Originally posted by Mr Master
Negative.

Atleza's Realm is beyond Space and Time.

Space and Time make up Reality in the Universe & Multiverse.

Anything OUTSIDE of Space & Time (like Atleza's Realm and Death's) is OUTSIDE the influence od Eternity & Infinity.

Which is why they survived Thanos's absorption.

Warlock exits the universe/orb, and he says he is leaving time and space.

He is indeed outside of Eternity's and Infinity's influence.

That whole area is outside of time and space.
So, your logic works against him absorbing the multiverse too...

Originally posted by Mr Master
Roma FAKED her Death just like her Father Merlyn did before her On Panel.

Reed Remade the Multiverse, Roma was supposedly "killed" outside the Multiverse,

how did she re-emerge, if she had nothing to do with the Multiverses recreation?

I never said anything about her dying...

Originally posted by Mr Master
.

I can prove it.

The ONLY way to Banish Abraxas was to Erase and Create a NEW Multi-verse in which Abraxas never manifested in.

Here Roma says it:

"It will be a WEAPON of UNIMAGINABLE POWER that will WIN this DAY"

Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:

"But THIS Time, THIS Day can END ONLY ONE WAY"

Reed says, "Yes.... God help me, I can see that now"

Here when Reed uses the UN, Abaxas and Reed say to each other:

Abraxas says, "Put it down Richards, you have no idea"

Reed says, "Actually Abraxas I do, You NEVER INTENDED to FIRE the Nullifier for the very same Reason I MUST"

So you see, it's quite clear that Abraxas himself KNEW, the ONLY possible way to get rid of him, (even if he used it himself), was with the Ultimate Nullifier.

Really, the UN was the most powerful thing at the time...

Originally posted by Mr Master
When has LT lost with the exception of THOTI (Power of GOD)

Originally posted by Mr Master
What makes you think LT can't increase his stature to whatever proportions?

Or better yet,

what makes you think LT can't miniturize the Brothers to put them in his hand?

Regardless, they are the embodiments of TWo Megaverses and there's no getting around that.

Anyway, I don't care.
Since he has only held them, he hasn't destroyed them, like the person I was debating before thought that he has.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's a sound speculation but specualtion nontheless.

On Panel it was the ONLY possible way to stop him.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I know that potna, I'm a kmc vet.

I was just making a factual statement.

Still, yes I agree, LT>Abraxas

Originally posted by Mr Master
Get what from?

I said Spectre merged with the Source can take out Abraxas.

Normal Spectre can't (imo from what I know about him)

Anyway, do you think that Lucifer can beat Abraxas, or not?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Mr. M, I asked about Abraxas and the IG in your Everything COSMIC thread.

Just interested in hearing your full thoughts on that.

It's quite simple considering their histories.

Incomplete IG>UN

IG>UN

UN>Abraxas

IG>Abraxas.

🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's quite simple considering their histories.

Incomplete IG>UN

IG>UN

UN>Abraxas

IG>Abraxas.

🙂

Originally posted by bigbran
Yes of course you did.

But I mean, speculated off of that scan of the "threatening" thing.

If you think I banked my whole argument on ONE scan, you slept through our debate.

Originally posted by bigbran
That wasn't a personal attack, so don't take it as one.

I haven't, we may disagree, but you know I respect your debating skills and Comic book knowledge and I'm sure you feel the same about me.

You better 😛

Originally posted by bigbran
I disagree... still.

That's cool.

Originally posted by bigbran
What about "THIS" universe?

Does that mean numerous universes?

As in "THIS" Multiverse?

Originally posted by bigbran
There is no on-panel evidence...

I disagree.

Originally posted by bigbran
Wasn't it also stated to be a universe in LT's bio?
I'm too lazy to retrieve it though...

So, I'll stick to the comics...

NO.

You can get the bio, I'm positive about that.

Originally posted by bigbran
Warlock exits the universe/orb, and he says he is leaving time and space.

He is indeed outside of Eternity's and Infinity's influence.

That whole area is outside of time and space.
So, your logic works against him absorbing the multiverse too...

Negative.

While the Blue Balls are separated from the others, they're still part of the whole.

Why do you think it's possible for beings to collapse the Multiverse, if they couldn't reach another Universe?

By your logic, that would be impossible.

Originally posted by bigbran
WTF are you talking about?

I never said anything about her dying...

I just checked, you're right you didn't say that, you said "Abraxas beat her"

I bet Roma manipulated her own defeat, to complete Valeria's training

That's one of the reasons Merlyn Faked his death, to complete Roma's training amongst other reasons.

Originally posted by bigbran
OK, what other weapon had the power to take down Abraxas?

Really, the UN was the most powerful thing at the time...

That's inconsequential.

The fact is, it's clearly stated to be his ONLY weakness.

Originally posted by bigbran
Reed.

😆

LT and Reed never battled.

And that move Reed pulled off with his Canon would have never worked had he shot LT directly with it.

Reed used the LT's and the Cosmic's own power against them, while they were concentrating their powers into a single point, Reed shot his Canon into the concentration of power, this intern shot the Cosmic's and LT's powers back at them ultimately blowing them into other Universes.

Not exactly a win for Reed.

Originally posted by bigbran
I know what they were... I'm just saying that their stature was able for LT to hold them.

Anyway, I don't care.
Since he has only held them, he hasn't destroyed them, like the person I was debating before thought that he has.

Fair enuff.

LT did manipulate the Two Megaverses though, he was part of their Creation.

Originally posted by bigbran
Isn't it specualting to think that he can only be stopped by the UN?

I would say by any power that can do what was done.

Erase the Multiverse, and Create a new one.

Originally posted by bigbran
I disagree... I think that a normal Spectre can take him...

Anyway, do you think that Lucifer can beat Abraxas, or not?

You know I admittingly don't know much about DC.

But like I said, if Luc can Erase and Create a Multiverse,

then yes I would say he can defeat Abraxas. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
If you think I banked my whole argument on ONE scan, you slept through our debate.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I haven't, we may disagree, but you know I respect you and you debating skills and Comic book knowledge and I'm sure you feel the same about me.

You better 😛

Originally posted by Mr Master
As in "THIS" Multiverse?

Also, based on your logic, every time someone says "the universe", they actually mean the multiverse?
So, when exactly is anything universal?

Using your logic...
Does this look like the multiverse to you?

Certainly doesn't to me...

Originally posted by Mr Master
NO.

You can get the bio, I'm positive about that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Negative.

While the Blue Balls are separated from the others, they're still part of the whole.

Why do you think it's possible for beings to collapse the Multiverse, if they couldn't reach another Universe.

By your logic, that would be impossible.

To get to those other balls though, they would have to pass through the place where there is no time or space... Thanos had said he had destroyed all time and space in the universe (or multiverse to you)... how exactly would he do this, without destroying Warlock?

If Warlock had the power, he could have destroyed the entire multiverse...

Not impossible.

Thanos was manipulated though, others aren't.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I just checked, you're right you didn't say that, you said "Abraxas beat her"

I bet Roma manipulated her own defeat, to complete Valeria' training

That's one of the reasons Merlyn Faked his death, to complete Roma's training amongst other reasons.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's inconsequential.

The fact is, it's clearly stated to be his ONLY weakness.

Originally posted by Mr Master
😆

LT and Reed never battled.

And that move Reed pulled off with his Canon would have never worked had he shot LT directly with it.

Reed used the LT's and the Cosmic's own power against them, while they were concentrating their powers into a single point, Reed shot his Canon into the concentration of power, this intern shot the Cosmic's and LT's powers back at them ultimately blowing them into other Universes.

Not exactly a win for Reed.

Except, Michael has the power of Creation...and Lucifer the power of Will and so can shape that creation.

Two parts of a whole, I guess.

It's quite simple considering their histories.

Incomplete IG>UN

IG>UN

UN>Abraxas

IG>Abraxas.

That's the thing I'm not totally cool with.

The Infinity Gauntlet, even at its best showings, couldn't destroy the multiverse and remake it in an instant...

It's entirely possible a person with enough controla nd time with it could pull off the feat but while the IG was massively powerful, it never started to collapse the multiverse, let alone erase and recreate it in a matter of seconds.

So, say someone with the IG confronted Abraxas.

What are they gonna do?

Now, of course, it is possible to say he could do nothing to them as well...but it's just something I'm puzzling over.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Except, Michael has the power of Creation...and Lucifer the power of Will and so can shape that creation.

Two parts of a whole, I guess.

That's the thing I'm not totally cool with.

The Infinity Gauntlet, even at its best showings, couldn't destroy the multiverse and remake it in an instant...

It's entirely possible a person with enough controla nd time with it could pull off the feat but while the IG was massively powerful, it never started to collapse the multiverse, let alone erase and recreate it in a matter of seconds.

So, say someone with the IG confronted Abraxas.

What are they gonna do?

Now, of course, it is possible to say he could do nothing to them as well...but it's just something I'm puzzling over.

Of course you do realize this is my argument to why the UN is superior to the IG.

Well...I guess it depends on what you want to do with the power.

You want everything dead, you can use the Ultimate Nullifier.

However, the Infinity Gauntlet grants you things like omnipotence or omniscience.

You give Bozo A the Nullifier and Bozo B the IG and Bozo B suddenly can percieve and direct everything in existence.. Bozo A, however, could have the Nullifier stolen from him by any schmuck because all it gives you is the life or death of the multiverse in your hands. No special powers or senses.

I'd rather have both, but if I had to choose, I'd take the IG. No one is gonna take it from you...well, if you're fit that is. Otherwise LT takes it and screwed you are.

Originally posted by bigbran
Nope, just saying that the scans from Hotu come from the threatening part, and the Death scan, the others are taken from different comics...

Nope, it's more than just that.

Originally posted by bigbran
Of course...

🙂

Originally posted by bigbran
Wouldn't that mean that there is only one Adam Warlock in the multiverse then?

What does this mean?

Originally posted by bigbran
Also, based on your logic, every time someone says "the universe", they actually mean the multiverse?
So, when exactly is anything universal?

Actually based on YOUR interpretation of my logic,

"every time someone says "the universe", they actually mean the multiverse"

I ... never said that.

When it's obvious like it always is.

Everyone knows I say 'sometimes' the term "Universe" can mean "Multiverse"

It doesn't happen often at all, but it does.

In the Entropy case involving Genis, I believe you've seen the scans, the term "Universe" was used over and over and yet it was the Multiverse all along.

Sometimes it's just the structure of the story that gives us our answers, like in the Abraxas case, it never mentioned Multi-Eternity concerning it's Re-Creation, it never stated Reed remade the "Multiverse" iether ... but we know it did.

(the bio terms it "the Universe"😉

Originally posted by bigbran
Using your logic...
Does this look like the multiverse to you?

Certainly doesn't to me...

I never said Thanos battled the Multiverse, you're saying that by showing me that scan.

The REASON Thanos absorbed the Multiverse is to get rid of all the other REAL even remotely possible threats, like Abstracts and Cosmics of other Realities in the Multiverse.

Thanos ONLY battled the 616 Universe and LT.

Originally posted by bigbran
I'm lazy... but...

First paragraph on the side, where his power levels are shown...

I thought you had something there for a second, you thought I hadn't read LT's full bio?

Shame on you. pfft

But seriously here's a close up of what you're pointing at,

This is interesting and I think I got something.

"Thanos destroyed all that existed" "Restored Reality"

This right here can be alluding to it being a Multiverse.

(exerpt from the 2006 Handbook Bio LT)

Then we get, "the recreated Universe lacked the terminal flaw"

Since every Universe was re-created it makes sense that the most important Universe was recreated also withOUT the "Flaw" that would have spread and ended the Multiverse, or it can directly mean "the Universe" as in the Marvel Multiverse (I have my reasons in the NEXT Post)

Hence:

"For in the absence of Life there can be no Death"

He was definitely talking about the Multiverse here, because Death profits from one Universe dying, so it couldn't be that: (perhaps it's not the same Death OUTSIDE the Multiverse, things are different OUTSIDE the Multiverse, I have scans from the New Universe, Classic Ultraverse, Rune, Dr Who)

"The Eons-Old Stalemate between Eternity and ME has ENDED.

By MY MACHINATIONS, the UNIVERSE shall be MINE"

Continues in the next post ....

Look at Abraxas' bio in the 2006 Handbook:

Reed Nullified "The Universe" itself, "The Universe" restored itself to it's previous normality, with Abraxas no where to be found"

Now you KNOW Reed Re-Created the Multiverse, NO mention of it, no mention of the word "Multiverse" at all. And the whole freaking story dealt with the Multiverse collapsing, no mention of the other Universes that were damaged, nothing.

"The Universe" ... can mean, The Multiverse

Originally posted by bigbran
To get to those other balls though, they would have to pass through the place where there is no time or space...

Not exactly,

Although it appears that way visually in the Cosmic Vortex, it is not so when traveling from one Universe to another.

Warlock was given that special opportunity to enter the Cosmic Vortex through a special Portal made by Eternity/Infinity.

But ALL Universes are as close

When the Living Laser went through the Watcher's "Inter-dimensional Portal" Quasar went after him looking for his counter-parts that had Diverged in different Universes,

Quasar was flying from Universe to Universe through Portals set up by Watchers from different Universes literally as if they were just a set of rooms apart.

So you see depending on your method of Travel, you can fly from one Universe to another WITHOUT needing to experience the Cosmic Vortex, WITHOUT needing to touch "Beyond Space & Time" ...

When the Chaos Wave was collapsing the Multiverse, and beyond, it was doing it by breaking down the "BRANES" (Dimensional Walls between Universes)\

"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing devastation to BRANES all along the Sidereal String"

Meggan entered this place where the "Branes" (the Walls between Universes) are.

you can easily see how Universes transition from one to another, it looks nearly the same as the Universe itself:

This is the track Thanos or any other individual would take to Collapse the Multiverse, not the Cosmic Vortex.

The Cosmic Vortex is only the area "Beyond Space & Time" ... The "Branes" are what truly separate Universes, and it's as easy as breaking down a wall to get from one to the other. (Or you can use a Portal like most, like Quasar)

Originally posted by bigbran
Thanos had said he had destroyed all time and space in the universe (or multiverse to you)... how exactly would he do this, without destroying Warlock?

If Warlock had the power, he could have destroyed the entire multiverse...

I addressed this right above.

Originally posted by bigbran
Still though, this is one of the examples why I feel that this multiversal being shit is irrelevent...

I could care less about the Multiversal title.

My contention is that Thanos absorbed the Multiverse.

Thanos's consciousness expanded to the Omniverse he said.

"I was everything bonded to Omni-Reality"

"My Awareness continued to expand beyond the material and the Abstract"

"Into Realms I never suspected even existed"

If this is ONE Universe I'm wondering, HOW is that possible?

HOW can Thanos perceive "Realms he NEVER knew existed?"

When he was the Actual Entire Universe before, Twice?

"Thanos has now USURPED Eternity's rightful position as the CENTER of ALL REALITY"

Thanos with the Cosmic Containment Unit become a Universe:

Originally posted by bigbran
It's clearly stated that a weapon of unimaginable power is his weakness...

Exactly,

that "Weapon of Unimaginable Power" being the UN.

Originally posted by bigbran
I know what happened... but he still lost to something that Reed had created...

If you say so.

Just want to say Mr. M...I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you on that IG > Abraxas. I just am curious as to how Abraxas vs. IG Wielder would turn out based on what we've seen.

Don't hurt me. 🙂

I'll answer this part, since it isn't needed to continue the same debate in two different threads...

Originally posted by Mr Master
What does this mean?

Adam Warlock is outside the loop of Chaos and Order.

What you said, would mean that Adam Warlock would be apart from the entire multiverse too, and there would only be one Warlock in the multiverse...

Originally posted by Mr Master
I never said Thanos battled the Multiverse, you're saying that by showing me that scan.

The REASON Thanos absorbed the Multiverse is to get rid of all the other REAL even remotely possible threats, like Abstracts and Cosmics of other Realities in the Multiverse.

Thanos ONLY battled the 616 Universe and LT.

He says he absorbed "the" universe... which you say could mean the multiverse...
He says "the" universe is rallying against him... which you say is simply a universe...
Confusing...

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Just want to say Mr. M...I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you on that IG > Abraxas. I just am curious as to how Abraxas vs. IG Wielder would turn out based on what we've seen.

Don't hurt me. 🙂

It actually seems like a trap.

Back on topic... Lucifer beats Abraxas...