ROTS Anakin and Darth Maul vs ROTS Obi-wan and Genral Grievous

Originally posted by kamikz
The jedi weren't so tired that they couldn't think.

That wasn't my point, my point was that their fatigue surely would have a negative effect on their force use (and saber ability)

Almost no jedi know anything about Grievous, nothing like that.

Erm, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

They know who he is but nothing about how he fights. This is irreleveant.

It's not irrelevant. All they knew was that he was an extremely skilled cyborg that wielded multiple lightsabers. They had no clue as to his capabilities, whether he could use the force or not.

They tried to use the force (Ki-Adi as well), they failed....

Refer to the being tired part.

Originally posted by kamikz
Again, if 5 jedi at once fail to do anything to him, and 3 strong jedi who are to protect the chancellor, then I doubt it's easy so that "anyone" with decent TK could do it.

You've got to understand the context in which I'm using these certain words. I'm not saying that any average jedi knight with TK should be able to do those things, but just anybody on or close to Kenobi's level.

Obi-Wan and Shak Ti the second time weren't tired and Shak Ti fought him before, and the survivors of Hypori probably told the others Jedi how GG fought.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Because he wasn't strong enough and he doesn't uses techniques like Force crush on people, he is a Jedi, most Jedi don't.

Read through my original post, force crush only came up about two times. And Obi-Wan already proved that he was strong enough, by hurling him up into the air like he did.

Kenobi Force pushed GG and it didnt do any damage.

Again, refer to what I was saying about his tactical use of the force. If Obi-Wan played it smart, he could have just ran up to him, and attacked him before he regained his composure. Or alternatively, he could have just held him still in the air, maybe upside down, and then played it by ear from there. No, if Obi-Wan chose to play it tactically, he could have very easily won. There's also the fact that Obi-Wan was very arrogant, and likely believed that he didn't need to resort to such easy methods.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Obi-Wan

Refer to what I was saying in the previous post.

and Shak Ti the second time weren't tired and Shak Ti fought him before,

And Shaak Ti has never displayed any great usage of the force, ever. It can only be assumed that forcewise, she just isn't as good as the more powerful jedi.

and the survivors of Hypori probably told the others Jedi how GG fought.

When I talked about the whole uninformed factor, I was referring specifically to the Hypori incident.

Originally posted by allfg
That wasn't my point, my point was that their fatigue surely would have a negative effect on their force use (and saber ability)

Erm, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

It's not irrelevant. All they knew was that he was an extremely skilled cyborg that wielded multiple lightsabers. They had no clue as to his capabilities, whether he could use the force or not.

Refer to the being tired part.

How much would the fautige affect them? They hadn't been fighting for a while in there, and we know that force users can regain stamina fast, almost instantly....

What I'm trying to say is, that barley no jedi know anything about Grievous, so why should this case, or any, be different?

Grievous can also dodge force attacks (as shown when people have tried to use the force on him), and he can use either his claws on his feet, or magnatizing, to stick to the ground, even if someone wants to lift him, toss him, or trip him.
And he is almost to fast for any jedi to use the force on him, he is faster than the majority of the jedi...

It wouldn't be easy to defeat GG trough the Force for majority of the Jedi, he fought allot ob battles one on one and more and killed allot, if it was easy someone in hi so many fights with Jedi would have done it.

Grievous is a horrible fighter as seen in ROTS. He was so easily defeated. Now as a teammate of Obi-Wans, I don't see that actually happenning. Team one should take this.

GG isn't a horrible fighter, he is very good, better then most of the Jedi, Kenobi is just better.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
GG isn't a horrible fighter, he is very good, better then most of the Jedi, Kenobi is just better.

Then why did General Grievous lose so easily in Revenge of the Sith?

He didn't lose so easily, but he lost because Obi is better and he got frustrated by not able to penetrate Obis defences and he lost his concentration.

Soresu is also the best form against Grievous, Grievous was wounded and thus slower than usually and less mobile.

Originally posted by kamikz
How much would the fautige affect them? They hadn't been fighting for a while in there, and we know that force users can regain stamina fast, almost instantly....

Not every force user is Dooku...
Ki Adi Mundi clearly lists fatigue as a factor to the council.

What I'm trying to say is, that barley no jedi know anything about Grievous, so why should this case, or any, be different?

That's because we usually work under the assumption that each combatant would have perfect knowledge of the other in these versus threads.

Grievous can also dodge force attacks (as shown when people have tried to use the force on him),

I've taken that into consideration, and that's why I don't think just anyone can TK own Grievous.

and he can use either his claws on his feet, or magnatizing, to stick to the ground, even if someone wants to lift him, toss him, or trip him.

Yes, but the moment he moves his feet, he becomes vulnerable again...

And he is almost to fast for any jedi to use the force on him, he is faster than the majority of the jedi...

That's great for him, however he would get owned by some of the stronger ones (such as the ones in this thread) if they used their TK abilities tactically and creatively. I mean really, how the hell is he gonna stop a jedi from destroying his lightsaber(s)?

Originally posted by allfg
Not every force user is Dooku...
Ki Adi Mundi clearly lists fatigue as a factor to the council.

That's because we usually work under the assumption that each combatant would have perfect knowledge of the other in these versus threads.

I've taken that into consideration, and that's why I don't think just anyone can TK own Grievous.

Yes, but the moment he moves his feet, he becomes vulnerable again...

That's great for him, however he would get owned by some of the stronger ones (such as the ones in this thread) if they used their TK abilities tactically and creatively. I mean really, how the hell is he gonna stop a jedi from destroying his lightsaber(s)?

Dooku did it in the middle of a battle, I could see a Jedi Council master replicate a similair feat to a lower degree without fighting and resting for a while.

Uh? Since when? I have never heard anything like that. Usually, in threads with Vong, the author have to specify that they know about them....

Not really, remember the Ithorian? He could blow away metal and droid battalions with his sound, yet Grievous could still walk forwards against him. Now if a jedi fails the attempt to use the force, they are likley to proceed forward, not stand and wait until Grievous puts away his claws/magnetism, it is highly likley that they don't even know he has them on....

That's silly, it's like saying Obi-Wan could just have defused Jango's jetpack, or that any jedi could leave Durge in a statis status, but they can't.

Ok, use the force to remove his chest plates. Thats not an "offensive" power, thats TK. Rip those away, use the force to bend/break his limbs, pull his mask off, take control of his saber(s)...possibilities are limitless. Anakin and Maul take this. And for Ki Adi to be on the council, he has to have some skills above and beyond the average Jedi. Either way, he's not part of this fight, or as powerful as those who are...so point moot really.

Oh comon, if it was that easy, it would already be done. You don't have to be good at TK to do those things, if Grievous can wtfpwn 5 jedi at once, where some one is a council master and others are masters and knights, then why the hell should it suddenly be "endless of possibilities" how jedi can pwn him?

..... Just a small town girl...

how is it not a possibility? Is possibly indicative of definite? No. But doing those things are possibilities, and you can't prove otherwise. Just because it wasn't done, doesn't mean it cant be done. If he was killed in the CW then they would have been a character down in the movie...Same logic back at you, if it was as easy as it was for OB1 to open and shoot to kill, when didn't it happen during the CW when there was THOUSANDS of clone and others with blasters? You mean to say that not ONE person could aim for him? Not even a sharpshooter? C'mon man, use some logic. Ob1 beat him rather easily, and unless you want to even entertain the thought hat OB1 could take out 5 other Jedi together, then you have to admit that all those are logical possibilities. OB1 is not that superior to the other Jedi...

You're comparing ROTS Grievous with EU Grievous? Not only has he decreased in speed, but in mobility as well, and Obi-Wan was the perfect one to beat him really.

And I'm not saying that it cannot be done, but it is not likely to happen EVER by someone not at the Yoda/Mace level, because we have already witnessed maybe 20 something cases where several jedi have not once gotten to do such thing. To say that they didn't think of it is stupid. Grievous is just to fast and overwhealming for them to get such opertunity. People are gonna stand and try to open his chest and crush the metal in his face, and he's gonna stand and watch?

And there wasn't "thousands" of troopers in the CW, was about 8. And Grievous didn't have a lightsaber to parry Obi's shot, he couldn't possibly have done it.

There was only 8 clones in the CW? WTF are you talking about? Taun Wi even said something along the lines of 150,000 with a million more on the way. So where do you get 8?

Any Jedi that can move things with the force, can do things to GG, simple as that. If they don't have the fortitude to do it, or if they don't think to pull one off (a force move) then they're not that great. Ki Adi was a powerful Master and quite capable of pwning him with the force, provided that he could get out of GG's reach to do it.

And what does having a saber to block ONE blaster, have to do with blocking MANY blasters? The Jedi have the force and couldn't block shots from like 8 clones, how would a non-force sensitive block the same amount, let alone more?