Help Me !!!!!!

Hi guys I'm new around here, but i have a problem that is annoying me so much that it is literally keeping me up at night. I've recently started collecting comics, (and generally prefer Marvel comics) but after seeing the Superman movie i have gained sort of obsession. I know a little about physics, and It REALLY REALLY bugs me about Superman's powers especially seeing as hes a pseudo scientific character. The bit that bothers me the most is the energy crisis scenario. How was he able to gain the amount of energy needed to lift NEW krypton in the space of about two seconds. If plants could absorb that much solar energy in a minute, are problems with fossil fuels would be solved by literally cultivating weeds as energy sources. We could literally power space ships with daffodils by the types of energies proposed by Superman returns. I know its only a comics and I'm acting really sad, but i cant see why they don't just redesign his powers again. They did it when they decided that gravity did provide a suitable explanation, why not do it again. Does anyone have any thoughts on how he can absorb so much solar energy in a short space of time ? I heard that he maybe attracts light like a magnet ? Can anyone confirm this ?

Its a comic I assume he has like 150% efficiency of solar energy absorbtion.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Its a comic I assume he has like 150% efficiency of solar energy absorbtion.

He'd have to have 150 , 000000000 % efficiency ! 🙂

I found this on another forum, what do you think ?

For a light hearted discussion:
http://science.slashdot.org/science/06/07/07/0056200.shtml

Superman Returns has renewed my interest in Superman.

Superman has been my least favorite superhero. He is too powerful and does not have sufficient vulnerabilities.

However, in reviewing Superman I and II in preparation for Returns, my view is changing.

Probably due to the Star Wars influence of the late 70's, the first two Superman movies with Reeve emphasized the sci-fi, alien culture aspect of Superman.

The voice overs in Superman I & II by Jor-El (Brando) clearly describe the nature of Kryptonians- "1000's of years more advanced" than humans, " dense molecular structure" vs humans, and the depiction of Kryptonians as glowing, god-like beings in the homeworld sequences.

This canon, coupled with the added abilities demonstrated in Superman II by the evil Kryptonians (emitting tractor beams from their fingers), clearly shows that Kryptonians are highly advanced Q-like (Trek) beings, though not quite the level of omnipotence as Trek's Q.

I never bought the "red sun/yellow sun" baloney as the source (at least a portion) of Superman's powers on Earth, which doesn't explain how he can fly though space at superluminal speed without any external artificial assistance (a ship, etc), far away from Earth's sun. Plus, recall that Krypton is in another *galaxy*, not merely another star in the Milky Way- a ridiculous distance to travel, farther than the capabilities established in Trek or Star Wars.

So, my current take on Superman is that Krypton natives are hyper-advanced beings, similar to the Metrons/ Organians/ Q of Trek, either enhanced through evolution and/or technology/ biotech modifications over time. They are energy sinks/channelers, with the ability to harness "zero point energy"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_point_energy

and/or manipulate fundamental energy forms (E/M fields, gravitons, etc).

One interpretation of Kryptonite would then be that it blocks their ability to manipulate these energy sources.

One thing is for certain- thinking of Superman as simply a strong lump of muscle and tissue is beyond the suspension of disbelief.

So, while most superheros are humans who gained a power/powers through mutation (Xmen), technology/money (Iron Man, Batman), or genetic accident (Hulk, Spiderman), Superman has *nothing* to do with being human physically, though Smallville makes the case that he is being raised *as human* emotionally. While Supes has the apparent physical form of a human, it may simply be a convenient container for their higher Organian-like native form.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organian

An interesting theory but it's still comics. Nothing prevents him from gaining that power from the sun. 😬

In theory he should constantly be charging from all ambient light. Since he rarely expends a large amount at once it gets to build up for a long time. Furthermore the superdense cell structure allows for a lot of space to store that energy.

The posted theory also fails to adress how sundipping powers him up if solar energy is not invloved for a large part in his powers.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Hi guys I'm new around here, but i have a problem that is annoying me so much that it is literally keeping me up at night. I've recently started collecting comics, (and generally prefer Marvel comics) but after seeing the Superman movie i have gained sort of obsession. I know a little about physics, and It REALLY REALLY bugs me about Superman's powers especially seeing as hes a pseudo scientific character. The bit that bothers me the most is the energy crisis scenario. How was he able to gain the amount of energy needed to lift NEW krypton in the space of about two seconds. If plants could absorb that much solar energy in a minute, are problems with fossil fuels would be solved by literally cultivating weeds as energy sources. We could literally power space ships with daffodils by the types of energies proposed by Superman returns. I know its only a comics and I'm acting really sad, but i cant see why they don't just redesign his powers again. They did it when they decided that gravity did provide a suitable explanation, why not do it again. Does anyone have any thoughts on how he can absorb so much solar energy in a short space of time ? I heard that he maybe attracts light like a magnet ? Can anyone confirm this ?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
An interesting theory but it's still comics. Nothing prevents him from gaining that power from the sun. 😬

In theory he should constantly be charging from all ambient light. Since he rarely expends a large amount at once it gets to build up for a long time. Furthermore the superdense cell structure allows for a lot of space to store that energy.

The posted theory also fails to adress how sundipping powers him up if solar energy is not invloved for a large part in his powers.

I agree, except not enough Solar energy falls onto his body. Radiation travels in straight lines and Superman relatively small surface means he can only absorb a tiny amount of the Suns energy EVER. It would literally take Billions of years of soaking up the suns rays to have enough energy to lift/move new krypton. I know i getting worked up about comic logic, but i really cant shake the problem from my head. Maybe there s some sort of happy medium that allows his body to absorb more Solar energy than a conventional body his size could ?

Originally posted by Badabing
Hello completely new member to KMC. This is quite a conundrum you have here. It's a superhero movie so we all must take a leap of faith. I welcome you with my favorite smiley. dur

Thanks mate ? 🙂

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
I agree, except not enough Solar energy falls onto his body. Radiation travels in straight lines and Superman relatively small surface means he can only absorb a tiny amount of the Suns energy EVER. It would literally take Billions of years of soaking up the suns rays to have enough energy to lift/move new krypton. I know i getting worked up about comic logic, but i really cant shake the problem from my head. Maybe there s some sort of happy medium that allows his body to absorb more Solar energy than a conventional body his size could ?

Amplification. The way his body processes the energy, it breaks it down, rebuilds it, and in the end, he ends up with an exponential amount of raw energy.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Or maybe his kryptonian dna allows him to process that sun energy more efficiently than any "engines" we have today. Yeah, that could be it. 😐

The processing is not the problem, its the getting hold of it, in the first place. Not enough radiation touches his body.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Amplification. The way his body processes the energy, it breaks it down, rebuilds it, and in the end, he ends up with an exponential amount of raw energy.

That violates the second law of Thermodynamics, 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed'.

Imagine if the solar radiation was food, the problem is not how he breaks down the food, its the fact he's not eating nearly enough. In fact he needs to start eating billions maybe trillions of times more food to perform the feats he does, without violating the second law of Thermodynamics. 🙂

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
The processing is not the problem, its the getting hold of it, in the first place. Not enough radiation touches his body.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
The processing is not the problem, its the getting hold of it, in the first place. Not enough radiation touches his body.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
That violates the second law of Thermodynamics, 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed'.

Imagine if the solar radiation was food, the problem is not how he breaks down the food, its the fact he's not eating nearly enough. In fact he needs to start eating billions maybe trillions of times more food to perform the feats he does, without violating the second law of Thermodynamics. 🙂

It's not creating or destroying, it's processing. It's like humans, you eat meat, it turns into raw energy. He takes energy in as one form, reprocesses it, and now it's even more powerful as raw energy.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
You seem to be under the assumption that solar energy affects Superman on the same ratio that it affects plants...

Im looking at it from its most energetic perspective. I.e. one photon of energy equals a certain amount of joules of energy. Even if he absorbed all the photon radiation that comes into contact with his body, in its entirety he still falls short by a lot. Infact he would have to abosrb literally billions of times as many photons. 🙂

Originally posted by Nataku8188
It's not creating or destroying, it's processing. It's like humans, you eat meat, it turns into raw energy. He takes energy in as one form, reprocesses it, and now it's even more powerful as raw energy.

Photons are 'RAW' energy. You cannot break them down like you can with food and mass. 🙂

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Im looking at it from its most energetic perspective. I.e. one photon of energy equals a certain amount of joules of energy. Even if he absorbed all the photon radiation that comes into contact with his body, in its entirety he still falls short by a lot. Infact he would have to abosrb literally billions of times as many photons. 🙂

You can't say that without knowing exactly how many joules of energy are produced from a single photon... you're making assumptions using real world physics that don't apply in the comic world.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
You can't say that without knowing exactly how many joules of energy are produced from a single photon... you're making assumptions using real world physics that don't apply in the comic world.

Im using calculations based on photons abosrbed all over our earth. Are you suggesting the D.C. universe has a sun that is Billions of times more powerful than our own.

Maybe this helps ?

One megaton yields over 4000 terajoules: more energy than the whole Earth will use for hundreds of years, at least. Seems to me, in order to survive a one megaton blast, one would have to counter 4000 terajoules with an equal amount of energy, at least.

Thusly...
- On a sunny day, the amount of sunlight per square centimeter yields 0.1345 joules every ten seconds.
- An adult male has about 1.8 square meters of total skin surface area.
- If Superman were totally naked, he could perhaps absorb about 2500 joules in ten seconds. He needs 1.6 trillion times this amount to counter the energy of a 1 megaton bomb (4000 trillion divided by 2500).
- 1.6 trillion x 10 seconds is about 500,000 years. This is how long Kal El has to sunbathe to absorb enough power to survive 1 (one) "typical" nuclear explosion.

Based on the above, it would be better to assign the solar rad he absorbs a "secondary" position, something which triggers a far more powerful energy source, rather than being the primary energy source itself...kinda like a car ignition triggering the more-powerful internal combustion which actually moves the car.

If it was, it would kill everything on the planet (Except for Superman of course, 🙂 🙂 ). Any way as the sun is powered by fusion, which is the breakdown of mass at the atomic level, it would mean the D.C. sun would have to have Billions of times more massive. Meaning that the earth would also be likey to be immensly more heavy than our planet.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Thanks mate ? 🙂

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