Originally posted by TazerYou're taking this out of context bro.
(add the "h" to this) ttp://img131.imageshack.us/img131/8283/dccomics1m4pg14rj3.jpgKyle saying "....I dont know if I can keep it together, guys.....Im fraying at the edges....." isnt an admission of his field going, but his saying he doesnt know how much longer he can keep it up.
they ARE 2 diff things.
I already said S1M simply cemented Kyle Rayner's already present construct.
The reason S1M had to do this is because Kyle couldn't have done it alone, (if he could have, S1M wouldn't have needed to help him) 🙂
And I never said they were the same thing. 😕
Originally posted by TazerOnly the fact that if S1M wouldn't have showed, Kyle himself said that he couldn't have kept the effort up much longer.
theres no proof that his FV was >> or = to Kyle's effort.
And I never compared these 2 characters constructs. I don't know where you got that from. 😕
Originally posted by TazerHourman with a fraction of the Worlogog's power, stopped the Big Bang of a Universe.
I doubt a fraction of it would do much if anything.
So it would do more then you think. 🙂
Originally posted by Galan007The reason S1M had to do this is because Kyle couldn't have done it alone, (if he could have, S1M wouldn't have needed to help him) 🙂
So by that logic, Prime destroyed Solaris because neither S1M or anyone else could (if they could, they wouldn't have needed Prime's intervention)
Originally posted by masterbruceNope, S1M even states that him cementing Kyle's construct would burn Solaris out.
So by that logic, Prime destroyed Solaris because neither S1M or anyone else could (if they could, they wouldn't have needed Prime's intervention)
He only stopped because what he thought was a K-Nite rocket, was heading towards the Sun, and he thought Prime would be a gonner. 🙂
Had S1M kept on cementing Kyle's construct, he could have beaten Solaris.
Originally posted by Galan007
Nope, S1M even states that him cementing Kyle's construct would burn Solaris out.He only stopped because what he thought was a K-Nite rocket, was heading towards the Sun, and he thought Prime would be a gonner. 🙂
Had S1M kept on cementing Kyle's construct, he could have beaten Solaris.
so, how does S1M stopping the forcefield help save Prime? Shouldnt he have continued with the forcefield? Unless, he knew only Prime could defeat Solaris.
and didn't they give the GL Ring to Prime specifically for him to use against Solaris because only he could kill Solaris. Or else, why didn't S1M take the ring and do the job? Answer: because he couldn't.
Yo.
Originally posted by Galan007
You're taking this out of context bro.I already said S1M simply cemented Kyle Rayner's already present construct.
The reason S1M had to do this is because Kyle couldn't have done it alone, (if he could have, S1M wouldn't have needed to help him) 🙂
And I never said they were the same thing. 😕
that Kyle could OR couldnt hold onto Solaris thru the whole course of it going nova is an arguable point, however theres NO proof that Kyle needed S1M there to help since he DID STILL have Solaris behind that field.
and I made that comparison since it seems as tho U were trying to state FV >>> GL-construct.
Originally posted by Galan007
Only the fact that if S1M wouldn't have showed, Kyle himself said that he couldn't have kept the effort up much longer.
he never said any such thing.
Originally posted by Galan007
Hourman with a fraction of the Worlogog's power, stopped the Big Bang of a Universe.So it would do more then you think. 🙂
Kyle did the same. and??
and banishing any of them / time shifting them could/can also be reversed.
but they have little to fear from him as it is, since Tyler would be too emo to be of much good in all likelihood. 😆
Tazer
Yo.
Originally posted by masterbruce
so, how does S1M stopping the forcefield help save Prime? Shouldnt he have continued with the forcefield? Unless, he knew only Prime could defeat Solaris.
he never stopped; if U look @ that page I linkd U'll see him state that he had to remain where he was and it was up to OUR ERA's Supes to stop "the Knight Fragment".
and the next page shows that in fact thats just wat occurs.
Originally posted by masterbruce
and didn't they give the GL Ring to Prime specifically for him to use against Solaris because only he could kill Solaris. Or else, why didn't S1M take the ring and do the job? Answer: because he couldn't.
no, it was all a ploy by J'onn to mask Kyle's ring as a piece of k-rock.
and to that end, SP on did wat he did due to Solaris having spent most of his energies.
Tazer
Originally posted by TazerIf Kyle COULD have done it alone, S1M WOULD NOT have needed to help him.
that Kyle could OR couldnt hold onto Solaris thru the whole course of it going nova is an arguable point, however theres NO proof that Kyle needed S1M there to help since he DID STILL have Solaris behind that field.
S1M having to help Kyle was certainly implied.
You apparently really like Kyle Rayner, and I'm not trying to bad mouth him, or demean his feats.... So if that's what these messages sticking up for his character are about, there's really no need. 🙂
Originally posted by TazerI NEVER made any such comparison.
and I made that comparison since it seems as tho U were trying to state FV >>> GL-construct.
Originally posted by TazerWOW.
Kyle did the same. and??and banishing any of them / time shifting them could/can also be reversed.
but they have little to fear from him as it is, since Tyler would be too emo to be of much good in all likelihood.
You're comparing the power of the Worlogog to Kyle Rayner's GL ring?
You have just taken GL love to a completely different level. 😱
Originally posted by masterbruceS1M stopped his FV, because he thought a K-Nite rocket just entered the Sun, which would have apparently killed Prime.
so, how does S1M stopping the forcefield help save Prime? Shouldnt he have continued with the forcefield? Unless, he knew only Prime could defeat Solaris.
We know S1M stopped, because not only was he conversing with Kyle, but also because just before Prime crushed Solaris, it was no longer in a GL construct, or S1M's FV.
So what prevented S1M from beating Solaris by cementing Kyle's construct, was the simple fact that he feared for Prime's life. 🙂
Originally posted by masterbruce
and didn't they give the GL Ring to Prime specifically for him to use against Solaris because only he could kill Solaris. Or else, why didn't S1M take the ring and do the job? Answer: because he couldn't.
Originally posted by Tazer👆
no, it was all a ploy by J'onn to mask Kyle's ring as a piece of k-rock.and to that end, SP on did wat he did due to Solaris having spent most of his energies.
Yo.
Originally posted by Galan007
If Kyle COULD have done it alone, S1M WOULD NOT have needed to help him.S1M having to help Kyle was certainly implied.
that not necessarily true; S1M was simply providing assistance to a hero who was having a bit of a time holding back a east of an enemy like Solaris.
granted, Kyle didnt do that job as effortlessly as he did the Imperiex -feat, but still its far from Kyle being on his knees and 2 secs from caving under the pressure.
Originally posted by Galan007
[B]You apparently really like Kyle Rayner, and I'm not trying to bad mouth him, or demean his feats.... So if that's what these messages sticking up for his character are about, there's really no need. 🙂
me.....a Kyle-fan?!?? HA!!! dbl-HA!!!!
Im an admitted GL-fan, decidedly a John Stewart -booster if *nothing* else, and (lastly) MAKE MINE HAL!!!
😄
Originally posted by Galan007
[B]I NEVER made any such comparison.
it certainly did seem like it; but plz accept my apologies if Im mistaken.
Originally posted by Galan007
WOW.You're comparing the power of the Worlogog to Kyle Rayner's GL ring?
You have just taken GL love to a completely different level. 😱
all *I* did was compare feats, and THAT feat is something that got matched.
but to be sure, there have been a few time -feats the Rings have done that alot of ppl would be surprised o find out about......
Tazer
Originally posted by TazerI never made any comment that he was.
but still its far from Kyle being on his knees and 2 secs from caving under the pressure.
But Kyle himself said he couldn't keep holding Solaris, then S1M came and backed him up.
That much is a fact. 🙂
Originally posted by TazerHal it is! 🙂
me.....a Kyle-fan?!?? HA!!! dbl-HA!!!!Im an admitted GL-fan, decidedly a John Stewart -booster if *nothing* else, and (lastly) MAKE MINE HAL!!!
Originally posted by TazerYeah, I wasn't really saying what you thought I said, so it was a bit of a miscommunication...... But no biggie. 🙂
it certainly did seem like it; but plz accept my apologies if Im mistaken.
Originally posted by TazerI've never seen a feat from any GL, (save perhaps Ion or Parallax), that would rival the full power of the Worlogog. 😬
but to be sure, there have been a few time -feats the Rings have done that alot of ppl would be surprised o find out about......
Yo.
Originally posted by Galan007
But Kyle himself said he couldn't keep holding Solaris, then S1M came and backed him up.That much is a fact. 🙂
at no point does he ever say that: not being sure of the ability to do something isnt the same as not being able to do it.
Kyle says "I dont know if I can keep it together, guys.....", not "Guys, Im losing it here..." 1 comment displays a problematic stance, whereas the other is more of a slippery stance to the same scenario.
Kyle made that comment using the former.
Originally posted by Galan007
I've never seen a feat from any GL, (save perhaps Ion or Parallax), that would rival the full power of the Worlogog. 😬
well, I can honestly say Ive yet to see it do something I dont think a GL-ring could duplicate, especially since Im not sure we've really seen the FP of the 'gog.
but if U have a feat, then plz share.
Tazer
Originally posted by Tazerhmm
at no point does he ever say that: not being sure of the ability to do something isnt the same as not being able to do it.Kyle says "I dont know if I can keep it together, guys.....", not "Guys, Im losing it here..." 1 comment displays a problematic stance, whereas the other is more of a slippery stance to the same scenario.
I don't know about that, it seems pretty clear that Kyle needed help...
-Kyle:
"It's bending my head Batman!"
"I don't know if I can keep it together guys, I'm fraying at the edges!"
"I need HELP out here, I'm holding the Sun in my hands!"
-Superman 1M arrives:
"My force-vision will serve to cement your plasma bottle, but my concentration has to remain on this task until Solaris safely exhausts his supply of Oxygen."
Not only did Kyle apparently need help, but it would seem as though Superman 1M could have beaten Solaris once he applied his force-vision to Kyle's construct:
Originally posted by TazerCould ANY GL ring + the Mobius Chair, create an entire Universe and everything in it?
well, I can honestly say Ive yet to see it do something I dont think a GL-ring could duplicate, especially since Im not sure we've really seen the FP of the 'gog.but if U have a feat, then plz share.
Didn't think so.
But The Worlogog + The Mobius Chair can, and has, on panel.
If you don't believe me, check out my Extant Respect thread, this feat can be found there. 🙂
Yo.
Originally posted by Galan007
hmmI don't know about that, it seems pretty clear that Kyle needed help...
[snip]
Not only did Kyle apparently need help, but it would seem as though Superman 1M could have beaten Solaris once he applied his force-vision to Kyle's construct:
again I'll re-state: not being sure of the ability to do something isnt the same as not being able to do it.
Im not saying he didnt need help, but that couldve come in the form of a way to more expediently force Solaris to burn up the hydrogen it contained; GLs are good for being very adaptable and making fast changes on the fly.
its a HIGHLY debatable argument if U wanna say his construct wouldve faild b4 the 'bot finished flaring up tho, made even moreso seeing as we only see the strain Kyle had on him, but no apparent weakening of the his constructed "vault".
Originally posted by Galan007
Could ANY GL ring + the Mobius Chair, create an entire Universe and everything in it?Didn't think so.
But The Worlogog + The Mobius Chair can, and has, on panel.
If you don't believe me, check out my Extant Respect thread, this feat can be found there. 🙂
I cant say yes or no to that, since we've never had an opportunity in-comic to have that idea supported OR shot down.
and seeing as how that was a feat accomplished w/TWO devices, I could quite easily sit here and say swapping either 1 of them out for a GL-ring (since we've seen them twist time, allow travel to basically BOTH ends of the time stream, compression of TREMENDOUSLY LARGE spatial bodies, spontaneous creation & dissolution planetary bodies.....) might achieve the same result.
the most U can say *either way* is its unlikely, but its un-proven.
Tazer
Originally posted by TazerYou conveniently "snipped" out the part where Kyle CLEARLY says he needed HELP.
again I'll re-state: not being sure of the ability to do something isnt the same as not being able to do it.Im not saying he didnt need help, but that couldve come in the form of a way to more expediently force Solaris to burn up the hydrogen it contained; GLs are good for being very adaptable and making fast changes on the fly.
its a HIGHLY debatable argument if U wanna say his construct wouldve faild b4 the 'bot finished flaring up tho, made even moreso seeing as we only see the strain Kyle had on him, but no apparent weakening of the his constructed "vault".
You're taking this GL love to ridiculous levels.
Originally posted by TazerWell considering that NO GL ring has ever shown the ability to create anything close to a Universe, with ANY other objects.... You can't say it can just because you like GL's alot.
I cant say yes [b]or no to that, since we've never had an opportunity in-comic to have that idea supported OR shot down.and seeing as how that was a feat accomplished w/TWO devices, I could quite easily sit here and say swapping either 1 of them out for a GL-ring (since we've seen them twist time, allow travel to basically BOTH ends of the time stream, compression of TREMENDOUSLY LARGE spatial bodies, spontaneous creation & dissolution planetary bodies.....) might achieve the same result.
the most U can say *either way* is its unlikely, but its un-proven. [/B]
And realistically if you are comparing a friggin GL ring to the Worlogog, it would be hard to take you seriously as a debater. 😬
Yo.
Originally posted by Galan007
You conveniently "snipped" out the part where Kyle CLEARLY says he needed [b]HELP.You're taking this GL love to ridiculous levels.[/B]
1)I del'd unnecessary txt since I left in the page where it was from; it was a space-saving measure. if I DENIED wat was said, THEN Ud have a point.
but nice try anyway.
2) this isnt about GL-love since Im not here claiming Kyle easily solod Solaris, w/minimal assistance from S1M. YOU however said that S1M could have beaten it on his own, which I find hard to believe seeing as all of *his* concentration was/had to be focused on applying the FV (as stated by him too) on the construct.
Originally posted by Galan007
Well considering that NO GL ring has ever shown the ability to create anything close to a Universe, with ANY other objects.... You can't say it can just because you like GL's alot.And realistically if you are comparing a friggin GL ring to the Worlogog, it would be hard to take you seriously as a debater. 😬
Im not saying it can, but Im not gonna outright say it CANT, becuz theres [/u]no evidence either way[/u] to support or deny a ruling. the most either of us can say is "I dont know", especially given the object being discussed.
and seeing as the afformentioned feat U gave was only accomplished IN CONJUNCTION WITH ANOTHER OBJECT OF CONSIDERABLE POWER, I dont know how strong *yur* debating abilities have to be when U cant even recognize that fact.
if U wanna downplay 1 thing against another, thats fine, but then U should put up something that shows it operating by itself, not as part of a combo.
Tazer
Originally posted by TazerJust because S1M's concentration had to remain on Solaris, doesn't change the fact that he could have beaten it.
YOU however said that S1M could have beaten it on his own, which I find hard to believe seeing as all of *his* concentration was/had to be focused on applying the FV (as stated by him too) on the construct.
Once S1M cemented Kyle's construct, the ONLY thing that made him stop applying FV, (which would have stopped Solaris), was the fact that he thought Prime had just been killed.
Originally posted by Tazer😐
but Im not gonna outright say it CANT, becuz theres [/u]no evidence either way[/u] to support or deny a ruling. the most either of us can say is "I dont know", especially given the object being discussed.
Originally posted by TazerHourman had nothing but a TINY FRACTION of a complete Worlogog's power, and this was enough for him to EASILY stop to Big Bang of a Universe, by freezing it in time FOREVER.
if U wanna downplay 1 thing against another, thats fine, but then U should put up something that shows it operating by itself, not as part of a combo.
Name one occasion where ANY GL ring using a TINY FRACTION of it's power has had a similar feat.
And if any feat(s) you name were accomplished with anything but a FRACTION of a GL ring's power, then they cannot be compared in the slightest. 🙂
