Originally posted by Nellinator
Then you fail to understand me. If you honestly think that, you are clueless about me.
If I fail to understand you, then you have failed to present yourself in a realistic manner on these forums. Nothing I have theorhetically accused you of can not be backed up by your behavior on these forums.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
1,2,3) And when the aboslute truth defined for them by their parents is [b]not reinforced by their public education, would that not make them more inclined to question that absolute truth?3) Teaching without a bias is not reinforcing. Teaching with a bias absolutely is reinforcing. This can be done by a teacher who is a christian, just as it can happen if the teacher is gay. But is it not a dangerous path to walk when you can't be sure of the teacher's intentions?
2) Telling a school board or the school administration what you're going to say is not the same as walking into that class room and saying it.
1) No, your average parent is not a professional teacher, but they are a professional parent.
I give the kids more credit than I do the adults. I've always given kids the credit to figure things out for themselves. That's how I did it. And I was taught to be a christian in both my home and in my school.
And I think the majority of influence comes from their peers, much moreso than from their parents or their teachers. So, from that perspective the whole thread would be a moot point. It's the adults in this country that think they have a major say in the development of their kids, not the kids who think they do. [/B]
It seems to me that you are not at all open to Religion, any religion, being taught in a Public High School....Many people teach religion objectively. That's not an issue.
Teachers would do a much better job teaching thier student objectively, than a Parent would teaching thier children. You do know that 40% of Evangelical teenagers do not know that much about the Bible, right ? According to Time Magazine, 40% of these Evangelical youth cannot name the first book of the Bible, nor can they list the Gospels in order...that's scary, and it says a lot...
What do you think would happen if these Evangelicals actually read the Bible more ??? Hmm ?
Many Evangelical youth claim that the Bible does NOT condone Violence.....why is that ? Because most of them don't even READ the Bible.....they HEAR from thier parents and teachers that the Bible says Homosexuality is a sin...but most of them do not know that the Bible also says Homosexuality is punishable by death....
Ignorance of the Bible and other subjects is what makes Christianity potentially dangerous. KNOWLEDGE of the Bible does not....
Ignorance in any form is dangerous. Teenagers should not be taught ONE religion...they should be taught all religions, the major ones at least....
Whatever thier teachers say will be almost irrelevant when you have more than one religion and perspective being taught....instead of being taught from a one sided source like a parent.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Umm... like the inability to be impartial? You simply cannot prove otherwise because I've done it far more than once.
Far more than once is still only three or four times. You've posted hundreds of bible quotes, started a dozen bible threads, preached to every single person in the the religion forum, attempted to prove to just about anyone of a different faith that their religious preferences are inferior to your own.
You think being gay or straight is a choice, yes? You think it shouldn't be discussed in public, in front of children, to unfairly influence their young and naive minds.
Well, religion isn't thought to be a choice. It's a fact you choose your religion, just like every other member of any religion out there. So, if you get to say that religion should be taught but human sexuality shouldn't be due to it's ability to unfairly influence our youth, then you are a hypocrit.
Originally posted by Alliance
We're not saying "the Christian God is real." We're saying this is what Christianity is. This is where it came from. This is how it influences our culture.An education about how the bible is actually pertinant to American society and this is how it is not. This is how the Bible has been changed, this is how it hasn't. The Bible has a role and society and there are places it doesn't and shouldn't be. Different peope interpret things in these different ways.
That sort of education is essential for Christians and non-Christians living in the US at this time.
Have you read Stephen Prothero's book "Religious Literacy"? If not, that is basically what he says, religious studies should be taught in America's schools for education purposes as most Americans are religious illiterates; even the religious ones. Not theocracy mind you, but religious studies.
Great book, I'm still reading it and I do recommend it.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Far more than once is still only three or four times. You've posted hundreds of bible quotes, started a dozen bible threads, preached to every single person in the the religion forum, attempted to prove to just about anyone of a different faith that their religious preferences are inferior to your own.You [b]think
being gay or straight is a choice, yes? You think it shouldn't be discussed in public, in front of children, to unfairly influence their young and naive minds.Well, religion isn't thought to be a choice. It's a fact you choose your religion, just like every other member of any religion out there. So, if you get to say that religion should be taught but human sexuality shouldn't be due to it's ability to unfairly influence our youth, then you are a hypocrit. [/B]
That is true, I have to agree with you here 👆
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Far more than once is still only three or four times. You've posted hundreds of bible quotes, started a dozen bible threads, preached to every single person in the the religion forum, attempted to prove to just about anyone of a different faith that their religious preferences are inferior to your own.You [b]think
being gay or straight is a choice, yes? You think it shouldn't be discussed in public, in front of children, to unfairly influence their young and naive minds.Well, religion isn't thought to be a choice. It's a fact you choose your religion, just like every other member of any religion out there. So, if you get to say that religion should be taught but human sexuality shouldn't be due to it's ability to unfairly influence our youth, then you are a hypocrit. [/B]
Well that pwned the last 10 pages.
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
It seems to me that you are not at all open to Religion, any religion, being taught in a Public High School.
This isn't existentialism, it doesn't "seem", that's exactly what I'm saying. Influence of religion on humanity is one thing, teaching religion is another.
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
...Many people teach religion objectively. That's not an issue.
Yes, in a private school or in college. But many is not all, especially when we're talking about high school and middle school.
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Teachers would do a much better job teaching thier student objectively, than a Parent would teaching thier children.
Where did you get that idea? Because they aren't their kids? The point is that they have an audience, an outlet through which they can convince people to think the way they do. The religious right has been accusing teachers of evolution of doing this for decades.
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
You do know that 40% of Evangelical teenagers do not know that much about the Bible, right ? According to Time Magazine, 40% of these Evangelical youth cannot name the first book of the Bible, nor can they list the Gospels in order...that's scary, and it says a lot...
And from where is that ignorance coming? From their parents and churches, right? So you want to send them to school to reinforce the insane notion that the planet is 6000 years old?
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
What do you think would happen if these Evangelicals actually read the Bible more ??? Hmm ?
I understand you want to approach this from the logical stand point that christian ideology coupled with logical evaluation is the worst enemy of the christian religion, but it isn't up to you or I to decide that for the children of the religious right, not any more than it is for them to decide the opposite of that for your children.
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Many Evangelical youth claim that the Bible does NOT condone Violence.....why is that ? Because most of them don't even READ the Bible.....they HEAR from thier parents and teachers that the Bible says Homosexuality is a sin...but most of them do not know that the Bible also says Homosexuality is punishable by death....
Again, it is the ignorance of their parents and their mega churches and sunday school classes that is responsible for that. And I'm not saying that an objective class that teaches the truths and lies about christianity wouldn't be helpful to alot of kids. I'm saying it's not valid to think it wouldn't happen in a biased manner, depending on the person you've decided is teaching the class. When a teacher walks into a sunday school class, they know what they're there to teach. That's why they're sunday school teachers. But that same teacher doesn't have the right to walk into a fifth grade class and approach the subject matter the same way. Why is it illogical not to expect mega churches to further their own agendas, but not a public school teacher?
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Whatever thier teachers say will be almost irrelevant when you have more than one religion and perspective being taught....instead of being taught from a one sided source like a parent.
It's almost silly to think a teacher isn't that child's parent for the six hours a day, five days a week, he's sitting in their class room.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Far more than once is still only three or four times. You've posted hundreds of bible quotes, started a dozen bible threads, preached to every single person in the the religion forum, attempted to prove to just about anyone of a different faith that their religious preferences are inferior to your own.You [b]think
being gay or straight is a choice, yes? You think it shouldn't be discussed in public, in front of children, to unfairly influence their young and naive minds.Well, religion isn't thought to be a choice. It's a fact you choose your religion, just like every other member of any religion out there. So, if you get to say that religion should be taught but human sexuality shouldn't be due to it's ability to unfairly influence our youth, then you are a hypocrit. [/B]
No I don't... figure it out and stop making uninformed assumptions. You have just proved that you are clueless about me.
I don't say that, what are you going on about? I believe in sex education.
Teaching about The Bible in public schools can be seen as "promoting religion as preferable to a secular lifestyle."
Teaching about The Bible in public schools to the exclusion of or with more emphasis than other religious texts can be seen as "promoting one religion as preferable to another."
Both instances violate the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States.
The place for children to learn about The Bible is at home, or at a private religious school.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
This isn't existentialism, it doesn't "seem", that's exactly what I'm saying. Influence of religion on humanity is one thing, teaching religion is another.
ok
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Yes, in a private school or in college. But many is not all, especially when we're talking about high school and middle school.
I've been taught about religions objectively in a Catholic High School. We learned about Buddhism, Hinduism, and other Faiths without any offensive bias going into it.... 😬
It is possible Capt Fantastic...what are you so afraid of ?
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Where did you get that idea? Because they aren't their kids? The point is that they have an audience, an outlet through which they can convince people to think the way they do. The religious right has been accusing teachers of evolution of doing this for decades.
Evolution is pretty much proven, and the religious right can kiss my funhole...I am not discussing them.
Parents will always teach thier children what THEY want them to learn...a teacher can teach far more objectively. Not every single Theologean is religious..beleive or not...and they can teach fairly well and objectively.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
And from where is that ignorance coming? From their parents and churches, right? So you want to send them to school to reinforce the insane notion that the planet is 6000 years old?
The Ignorance is also coming from a LACK of actually reading the source of thier religion. IF they actually READ the Bible, they would question it. Any logical person would....it's full of contradictions and stuff that only makes sense in Myth. Many people are not aware of the contradictions or the farfetchedness from reality BECAUSE they don't actually read the Bible.
Also, I am not proposing that Christianity alone be taught. I am proposing that ALL religions be taught.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I understand you want to approach this from the logical stand point that christian ideology coupled with logical evaluation is the worst enemy of the christian religion, but it isn't up to you or I to decide that for the children of the religious right, not any more than it is for them to decide the opposite of that for your children.
No it's not. Logical Evaluation of the Bible will actually enhance Christianity and help it grow with the rest of us. Ignorance is Christianity's own worse enemy, and the enemy of us all. Kill the Ignorance, and we can progress somewhere....
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Again, it is the ignorance of their parents and their mega churches and sunday school classes that is responsible for that. And I'm not saying that an objective class that teaches the truths and lies about christianity wouldn't be helpful to alot of kids. I'm saying it's not valid to think it wouldn't happen in a biased manner, depending on the person you've decided is teaching the class. When a teacher walks into a sunday school class, they know what they're there to teach. That's why they're sunday school teachers. But that same teacher doesn't have the right to walk into a fifth grade class and approach the subject matter the same way. Why is it illogical not to expect mega churches to further their own agendas, but not a public school teacher?
I had a Literature teacher in Middle School tell us that Evolution was a lie, and that God created everything. Everything our Science teacher taught us was degraded by our Literature Teacher. These two ladies did not get along...
My younger brother recenty stated how hilarious it is, that in Science he learns about Evolution, while in Religion class he learns about Adam and Eve (this was when he was still in Catholic School)....he then asks the teacher, "well how come you teach us one thing, and then something that contradicts the other"...the SAME teacher was teaching both subjects ...hahhaa....then the teacher said, "I don't know...this is just what I am supposed to teach you guys"....
Teenagers will figure things out on thier own...if you expose them to EVERYTHING and encourage them to investigate and question EVERYTHING.
To isolate a teenager from religious/cultural knowledge and information is just as bad as forcing it down thier throats.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
It's almost silly to think a teacher isn't that child's parent for the six hours a day, five days a week, he's sitting in their class room.
Bro, im not talk about children...im talking about High School Students...they aren't all as stupid as you think (even tho many are)
Originally posted by Nellinator
For the most recent, I direct you to the Homosexuality thread where I made a very impartial post on the Biblical perspective on homosexuality... A dozen Bible threads? I've started maybe four or five in my life... Bible quotes don't mean that I'm preaching, they are evidence in many cases. They would be used by an impartial teacher as well. I can't remember ever trying to prove Christianity superior... I believe it is, but I've never had to prove that, where are you getting this crap?No I don't... figure it out and stop making uninformed assumptions. You have just proved that you are clueless about me.
I don't say that, what are you going on about? I believe in sex education.
Do you beleive Homosexuality should be taught as a mental disorder ? Or a choice ? None of which are factually proven....
Originally posted by Nellinator
For the most recent, I direct you to the Homosexuality thread where I made a very impartial post on the Biblical perspective on homosexuality... A dozen Bible threads? I've started maybe four or five in my life... Bible quotes don't mean that I'm preaching, they are evidence in many cases. They would be used by an impartial teacher as well. I can't remember ever trying to prove Christianity superior... I believe it is, but I've never had to prove that, where are you getting this crap?
You can't remember it because it's like a nevous twitch or the rolling eyes of a kid with autism. You must do it without even realizing it. And getting caught up in numbers is just silly. You do it. You've always done it.
Originally posted by Nellinator
No I don't... figure it out and stop making uninformed assumptions. You have just proved that you are clueless about me.
Saying I'm wrong is just silly, even for you. There's not one person that's going to enter this forum and not see you preaching at someone.
Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't say that, what are you going on about? I believe in sex education.
Yeah, as long as the sex education involves having sex after marriage and only to that person, and everything else be damned. But, we've heard that from a lot of christians in the past and we always seem to find them up to their elbows in crack whores at some sleazy motel.