Asajj Ventress vs. Tholme

Skorr is trusted enough to be a personal aide, 1, has faced Vos well enough on two occasions, twp

Read the comic lately? Dooku was testing him the entire time

Beating Anakin? Last I checked, Anakin kicked her sorry ass when he lured her out of hit and run tactics

What, ROTS Anakin would destroy her with ease, he would ultimate mega super pwn her, rape her to, if he didn't get it from Padme.

Originally posted by darthsith19
So he was a Dark Side Acolyte, so what? He was trusted for his loyalty, nothing ever says that he was trusted for his skills. When did he face Vos well enough? And the time they fought in The Dreadnaughts of Rendili doesn't count as Vos says later that he was tired and trying NOT to hurt Skorr.

No, he wouldn't beat her that easily, unless you can prove that he got that much stronger in the last 6 months of the Clone Wars.

Yes, because Vos's taunts to Skorr are to be utterly, 100 percent believed. Vos and Skorr mock one another consistently, so?

We can also buy he was never falling to the Dark Side, that killing Tinte was just and that

Besides Dooku and Sora coaching Quin on and it serving as an initiation? Come, now

Since when? When Ventress was forced out of hiding, she was screwed completely.

Again, when Anakin wasn't using the Dark Side he got own3d.

He killed Dooku easily.
All the proof necessary

Originally posted by darthsith19
1. What Vos says to Skorr about him being tired and trying not to hurt Skorr makes perfect sense, he had been on the run for days, had fought droids, Kenobi even talks of how injured he is in that comic that he "loses" to Skorr (he says it'd be stupid for Vos to stay instead of him because of how tired Vos is). And there's no reason that Vos would try to hurt Skorr at that point, as he is, or is trying to appear to be, on Dooku's side.

Correction: He killed Dooku easily when using the Dark Side and when Dooku was tired, plus Anakin's form is the best form against Dooku's. And Dooku was at a disadvantage because he got kicked by Anakin while he was busy taking Kenobi down so he was a little hurt. Add them all together and there was a good reason that Dooku got pwnd other than that Anakin was as much stronger than him as you're hinting. And seeing how badly Ventress was beating him just six months before that it's doubtful that Dooku would have been pwnd at all if Anakin hadn't had so many advantages.

The moment Anakin decided to kill him, Dooku was a dead man. Plain and simple. Anakin>Dooku by a good margin.

Quinlan was willing to decapitate Aayla for a short time and has taunted Skorr extensively before. Not seeing how this's relevant

On Korriban.

I think you missed the point of what I said...

Oh, so Dooku wasn't talking to him and Sora didn't yell at him to use Vaapad when Dooku was involved? And Dooku didn't say he knew the truth all along and strung him along?

Stop distorting things. I'm sorry, when did Ventress have any sort of upper hand? She...kicks him, matches blows with him, runs away and slashes him once-receiving a blow in kind using...wait for it...HIT AND RUN TACTICS.

Ownage implies Anakin was losing horribly

Sorry, bull.
Stated directly Anakin is more powerful than Dooku and that Anakin was more powerful than Dooku believed possible and that, and I quote: 'Dooku is dead, the rest is mere detail."

The moment Anakin decided to kill him, Dooku was a dead man. Plain and simple. Anakin>Dooku by a good margin.

2. I never said that Anakin wasn't more pwoerful than Dooku, I just said that he wasn't very far ahead of Dooku.

3. I have provided proof why Anakin doesn't > Dooku by a good margin. please refer to that.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Can you name a specific instance when he has taunted Skorr?

3. I have provided proof why Anakin doesn't > Dooku by a good margin. please refer to that.

DS, Dooku was not tired at all when fighting against Anakin alone. It is stated right in the ROTS novel that Dooku used the force to refill his stamina back to perfect state, before duking out with Anakin alone.

For possibly the third time: Korriban.

Korriban, AGAIN

Shows how little trust I have in Quin's statements there.

Because Dooku
A. knows quin is an agent already
B. Wants him in.
C. If they were fighting to kill, someone'd be very dead. Sora could've torn Quin to pieces

This is the fight that we are referring to, and there is NO coaching during that fight!

Where was she owning him? Not once did she get the better of him. AT ALL. The most she got was giving him a cut which he returned in kind.

Which, if true, wouldn't amount to dooku being dead the second Anakin decided to kill him

Originally posted by darthsith19
Correction: He killed Dooku easily when using the Dark Side and when Dooku was tired, plus Anakin's form is the best form against Dooku's. And Dooku was at a disadvantage because he got kicked by Anakin while he was busy taking Kenobi down so he was a little hurt. Add them all together and there was a good reason that Dooku got pwnd other than that Anakin was as much stronger than him as you're hinting. And seeing how badly Ventress was beating him just six months before that it's doubtful that Dooku would have been pwnd at all if Anakin hadn't had so many advantages.

And it wasn't "one second".

And I've provided canon, official proof why he does

DS, Dooku was not tired at all when fighting against Anakin alone. It is stated right in the ROTS novel that Dooku used the force to refill his stamina back to perfect state, before duking out with Anakin alone.

This is what the novel says:
The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.
He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.

So you see that Dooku was tired even when trying to use the Force to refill his stamina "back to perfect state", because his Force Powers were getting exhausted, too.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Nope, only the second. Also for the second time, name a specific instance, I mean quote what Vos said that was a taunt, sorry if I was unclear.

That has nothing to do with the fight between Skorr, Sey and Vos! Again:

This is the fight that we are referring to, and there is [b]NO coaching during that fight!

So taunting him, kicking him in the face, cutting him in the head twice (while holding back) isn't getting the better of him AT ALL?

when wa sshe holding back? Oh, right, she wasn't
None of this is ownage. NONE of it

Oh my god, you can't read, can you?

And it wasn't "one second".

pQuoted]
The only proof that you've stated is "Stated directly Anakin is more powerful than Dooku and that Anakin was more powerful than Dooku believed possible" which only states that Anakin is stronger than Dooku and in no way says that he is, implies that he is, or states why he is stronger than Dooku by a large margin.[/Quote]
Read the ROTs novelization. Thank you

His entire diaologue to SKorr amounts almost entirely of taunts.

No. Quin only visited Korriban once.

As I said: What Quin says is usually suspect. Point is, this is inconclusive

My mistake then. Point remains: If that was a real fight, Sora Bulq would have torn Quin to pieces

Wow, TAUNTS! That's getting the better of him! Kicking him! Wow, he immediately struck back and sent her darting away for shelter. Wow, sshe cut him. He gave her a bigger cut to the face

when wa sshe holding back? Oh, right, she wasn't

None of this is ownage. NONE of it

"Dooku is dead, the rest is mere detail."
Thank you

"dooku is dead. The rest is mere detail."

Read the ROTs novelization. Thank you

"dooku is dead. The rest is mere detail."

Which isn't proof at all that Anakin is a good margin above Dooku.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Okay, can you at least tell me which comic this is in so that I can go look at the fight to refresh my memory?

Which comic was that, I wish to re-read it to refresh my memory.

You can't just tell me to read the novelisation and expect me to read the whole thing just so you can prove one point. Post quotes. And fyi I have read the duel between Anakin, Obi-Wan and Dooku more than once before and everything it says agrees with me - that Dooku was tired, that Dooku's form (Makashi) is bad against Anakin's form (Djem So), that Anakin kicking Dooku worsened Dooku's status and that Anakin became stronger when he used the Dark Side. I don't see how anything in the novel helps your pont, which, apparently, is only:

"dooku is dead. The rest is mere detail."

Which isn't proof at all that Anakin is a good margin above Dooku.

First few chapters, btw.

Originally posted by darthsith19

Are we reading the same novel?

This is what the novel says:
The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; [b]the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.
He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.

So you see that Dooku was tired even when trying to use the Force to refill his stamina "back to perfect state", because his Force Powers were getting exhausted, too. [/B]

Uh, where does it say that it affected his force stamina much at all? As we saw, when he grew tired in the force, he lost his physical peak and grew tired, now if he filled up to perfect state, he wouldn't become more tired in the force, because they are holding up one and the same thing, his energy....

And how the **** would Dooku manage to get out anyway? Answere, he wouldn't. I could go on and blame every single duel in star wars for this now, example, "Hey, Dooku used lightning twice on Anakin and Obi-Wan, then he beat them both, then he used alot of force powers on Yoda. He must've been sickly tired which is why he couldn't win...."

In ROTS, Dooku would've lost either way, face it.

I personally think people are reading way too much into the whole "Dooku is dead. The rest is mere detail." The writer was probably just trying to be poetic, I really don't see how people can just consider Anakin as being greater than Dooku by a large margin based on that quote alone. He probably is firmly more powerful in that zone (though I hate that), but I doubt he's leagues above him or anything.

The one with Andeddu's holocron, when Vos and Skorr recover it

Besides hating him, having no reason not to kill him and having been willing to kill him in the past?

Quin looks to find Sora in a battle stance?

However, how Sora's ready stance has anything to do with Vos beating Skorr and Sey, 2 on 1, I've no idea. Why do you keep bringing up otehr things, the fight we're talking about is Vos vs. Skorr and Sey.

Taunts also work to throw the opponent off balance psychologically and could be easily used to weaken a stronger opponent.

From ASAJJ VENTRESS, this is to be believed? She's taunting him to enrage him all the way through, how is this conclusive? Anakin slashes her across the face, too

What Anakin did to Dooku.
Seriously, give it a rest. anakin cuts her right back and is never once outmatched.
If you think this is ownage, you need to get a better definition

"The rest is mere detail."
When Anakin decides to kill Dooku, it's stated he's already dead
Stop saying that.

Um, yeah. It is. It says Dooku was nothing to Anakin, Dooku is dead just because Anakin has decided to kill him, and so forth.

Uh, where does it say that it affected his force stamina much at all? As we saw, when he grew tired in the force, he lost his physical peak and grew tired, now if he filled up to perfect state, he wouldn't become more tired in the force, because they are holding up one and the same thing, his energy....

Means he was getting weaker with the Force. I don't think you can just stop and fill up your stamina, either, you just have to use the Force while you're fighting to keep from getting tired as quickly. He was using the Force to keep him from fatiguing as quickly, which made his Force powers go down and his atamina go up. They are not one and the same.

And how the **** would Dooku manage to get out anyway? Answere, he wouldn't. I could go on and blame every single duel in star wars for this now, example, "Hey, Dooku used lightning twice on Anakin and Obi-Wan, then he beat them both, then he used alot of force powers on Yoda. He must've been sickly tired which is why he couldn't win...."

In ROTS, Dooku would've lost either way, face it.

Originally posted by darthsith19

[b]Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions...

Means he was getting weaker with the Force. I don't think you can just stop and fill up your stamina, either, you just have to use the Force while you're fighting to keep from getting tired as quickly. He was using the Force to keep him from fatiguing as quickly, which made his Force powers go down and his atamina go up. They are not one and the same.

Get out anyway? What the hell are you talking about, get out of what? Against Yoda he was tired but not so much as he was when he fought Anakin in ROTS because in AOTC Anakin and Kenobi were far enough below him that he didn't get very tired from their feeble attacks.

Yup, but he wouldn't have been owned if it hadn't been for Anakin's obvious advantages. [/B]

Still, his force went out fast as hell, even IF it really mattered that much (it could've count for next to nothing unless you can state otherwise, cause by the looks of it, it took about half a second and no effort at all) it wouldn't have mattered that much anyway, he could not simply hold on against Anakin.

And by "get out" I mean of the grasp that Anakin had on him. (Keeping him forced to defend and defend only, and he only became weaker). Really, there is no way that he would've survived "if he wasn't tired", because he was not getting out of that one. He became tired because he could not do anything but defend against Anakin (and become weaker) while Anakin became stronger and pushed the attack.

And really, I think would be stupid if it drained his force so much, if he needs it, then he would've used the force alone, and nothing else. He wouldn't need to refill his stamina, since the force is all that matters, why the hell would he drain his own force just to refill his 80 year old body's stamina, if the force is what keeps him going?
He was drained because he couldn't handle Anakin.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Okay, I'll read that comic to refresh my memory.

1. They were rivals, so sure they hated each otehr but they were on the same side so they try to kill each other.
2. The reason not to kill him is that they are on the same side, or at least Vos wants Dooku to believe that they are on the same side. Killing Skorr would blow Quin's cover.
3. When did Vos try to kill Skorr after they both started working for Dooku?

Yup, you're right.

However, how Sora's ready stance has anything to do with Vos beating Skorr and Sey, 2 on 1, I've no idea. Why do you keep bringing up otehr things, the fight we're talking about is [b]Vos vs. Skorr and Sey.

Yes, your right, and Asajj was using them to help her own Anakin, by making him even further below her than he already was.

Well, I don't see any reason why should couldn't have moves her saber just an ince closer to his face and sliced it opened if she'd wanted to. I didn't notice Anakin cutting her until now, either, so maybe it isn't ownage, but she still had the upper hand.

Anakin didn't own Dooku any worse than she owned Anakin. Anakin cuts her once, she cuts him twice and kicks him.
And my definition of ownage is perfectly fine.

Stop saying what? And where does it state that when Anakin wants to kill Dooku he's already dead? Quote, please.

Obviously he is dead because Anakin decided to kill him, you can't die in combat unless someone decides to kill you. Dooku being nothing to Anakin could mean that Anakin doesn't care at all about Dooku, because I don't know what the quote is, so could please quote the part of the novel that states that Dooku is nothing to Anakin?

Originally posted by allfg
I personally think people are reading way too much into the whole "Dooku is dead. The rest is mere detail." The writer was probably just trying to be poetic, I really don't see how people can just consider Anakin as being greater than Dooku by a large margin based on that quote alone. He probably is firmly more powerful in that zone (though I hate that), but I doubt he's leagues above him or anything.

Don't try to interpret the thoughts of the writer (which you don't have access to), Nebaris. The quote was made from a novelization of the movie - which is second only to Lucas himself - and is therefore rendered completely factual.

Well one thing I will say is that the fightscene itself is entirely invalid anyway, due to the many contradictions, the the narration in this case isn't even canon.

Dear Sith'Ari: Stop trying to twist what the officials have spoken on.

What have the officials spoken on, Lightsnake?