Soldiers are a necessary part of society, call them stupid all you want for enlisting in a potentially dangerous field of work. But when it comes down to it, if another country/regime/faction were to attack your homeland and/or just threaten you and your way of life; you'd be crying like little pansies for your soldiers/military to do something about it.
Originally posted by Robtard
Soldiers are a necessary part of society, call them stupid all you want for enlisting in a potentially dangerous field of work. But when it comes down to it, if another country/regime/faction were to attack your homeland and/or just threaten you and your way of life; you'd be crying like little pansies for your soldiers/military to do something about it.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He wasn't fighting for his freedom was he? He was fighting an unjust war against a country who never really threatened anything, if we're being realistic. Stop knee-jerking.Punk? Forget that bs. I fight for myself if I need to, if it's to protect myself or my loved ones from imminent and direct danger, which wars hardly ever are.
I.e: You don't see why they're better because they choose a more dangerous line of work either. You just say it takes "guts", which means nothing. Stupidity, more like it.
-AC
Originally posted by Robtard
Soldiers are a necessary part of society, call them stupid all you want for enlisting in a potentially dangerous field of work. But when it comes down to it, if another country/regime/faction were to attack your homeland and/or just threaten you and your way of life; you'd be crying like little pansies for your soldiers/military to do something about it.
How do you manage to be more and more irrelevant? Who said they weren't necessary? I said I think it's stupid to be one, so yes, I will call them stupid all I want.
They're not necessarily stupid for joining something dangerous, I just feel that removes all rights of sympathy in the event of death. What makes them stupid is the false obligation they feel they have for their country, and then wanting to fight for it no matter what. These soldiers getting upset because they dislike Bush's "war", well tough shit, they signed up for that.
However, let's discuss necessity shall we? My way of life has been the same as it always has since 1985. No Iraq, no Afghanistan, no Iran has ever made me not do something, or do something differently. So maybe they're not as necessary for actual protection as you think they are, just tools to wage unjust wars and conflicts in an attempt to maintain our "freedom" from people who could never realistically threaten it anyway.
"Be careful!", "Why?", "Because stuff is happening in a nation many thousands of miles away from us.".
So Bin Laden has the capacity to, once in a blue moon, kill a lot of people. That is a horrific possibility, but have you ever felt like your lifestyle was at risk because of him, in the same way that people feared say...Hitler? A man who could actually invade and conquer? A war where an army WAS necessary? I seriously doubt that. Yet of course, people knee-jerk to the "SUPPORT THE TROOPS!" and never think.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so.....terrorists are on the rampage throughout the world.
Some would argue the biggest terrorist of all is the one who "runs" your country, so be careful who you point that finger at.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
they hijack planes and crash them into the world trade center.
You're saying that in the present tense, why? It happened once, it doesn't keep happening does it? Think first, post second. They committed an atrocious act, Bush bombed a more or less innocent country (In this case.) off the face of the Earth. How necessary were your soldiers then?
You think that because people in NYC were horrifically attacked...once...in an event that took more than a decade of planning, that you are at constant threat from a man who lives in a cave? As if he's going to invade? Get real.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
is the USA supposed to just sit back and say "well, it's an unjust war we cannot engage in?".....no. it's a necessity that we are over there now. before the 9/11 attacks, i might have agreed with you. i might have said "why are we over there?"
You do realise he went after Iraq, a country who had a grand total of 0% involvement in the September 11th attacks, right? The States shouldn't be over there, nobody should.
Your president lied to get troops over there, under the guise of "They're threatening our freedom!", and because of people like you who convince them it's good to fight, but do nothing yourself, there are tremendous casualties for no reason. Many husbandless wives, fatherless kids etc. To say that in the face of the hard facts that prove this "war" was unjust, a sham and a waste of money and lives, is just idiocy.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
but the 9/11 attacks forced our hand. we have no choice but to be over there now. it's a losing battle, i will admit, but at least we are'nt just letting terrorists get away with it. the soldiers have no choice but to follow orders, and they know that they are in harms way. Tillman knew that he was placing himself in harms way, and he passed on a life of luxury to fulfill his duty to his country.
OUR hand? What do you do Mr. Patriot? I mean, besides sit at your computer in Texas and cheer, what do you do? If you aren't out there fighting, don't say "we". You have no part in any of this, so don't act as if you are out there fighting. That's more disrespectful to the people YOU claim to respect than I could ever be. If there were less arm chair "YEAH! FIGHT FOR HONOUR (While I watch on Fox.)." people, there might be less families eternally broken up.
"His duty"? You have no duty to your country, you take obligation to it of your own free will. Your country does not ask things of you, your government do. Your government get you into fights that they wouldn't dare fight themselves, most of them over bs things anyway. Your country doesn't. Tillman deserves no sympathy because he knew what he was getting.
Terrorism will always exist, so trying to definitely end it is futile.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i bet that if, for some strange reason, the UK was a major player in a war, and they held a draft, you'd be a draft dodger.
Yes, and? Was that meant as some kind of attempted appeal to my intellectual ego or something? "ME?! A DRAFT DODGER?! WHY I'LL SHOW THAT INTERNET POSTER HOW WRONG HE IS!".
Of course I would. You think I'd leave my friends, family and loved ones to fight a war that isn't even necessary? Or...a war in general? No. There are many people who society has conditioned into stupidly wanting to do that, so let them eat cake.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How do you manage to be more and more irrelevant? Who said they weren't necessary? I said I think it's stupid to be one, so yes, I will call them stupid all I want.They're not necessarily stupid for joining something dangerous, I just feel that removes all rights of sympathy in the event of death. What makes them stupid is the false obligation they feel they have for their country, and then wanting to fight for it no matter what. These soldiers getting upset because they dislike Bush's "war", well tough shit, they signed up for that.
However, let's discuss necessity shall we? My way of life has been the same as it always has since 1985. No Iraq, no Afghanistan, no Iran has ever made me not do something, or do something differently. So maybe they're not as necessary for actual protection as you think they are, just tools to wage unjust wars and conflicts in an attempt to maintain our "freedom" from people who could never realistically threaten it anyway.
"Be careful!", "Why?", "Because stuff is happening in a nation many thousands of miles away from us.".
So Bin Laden has the capacity to, once in a blue moon, kill a lot of people. That is a horrific possibility, but have you ever felt like your lifestyle was at risk because of him, in the same way that people feared say...Hitler? A man who could actually invade and conquer? A war where an army WAS necessary? I seriously doubt that. Yet of course, people knee-jerk to the "SUPPORT THE TROOPS!" and never think.
Some would argue the biggest terrorist of all is the one who "runs" your country, so be careful who you point that finger at.
You're saying that in the present tense, why? It happened once, it doesn't keep happening does it? Think first, post second. They committed an atrocious act, Bush bombed a more or less innocent country (In this case.) off the face of the Earth. How necessary were your soldiers then?
You think that because people in NYC were horrifically attacked...once...in an event that took more than a decade of planning, that you are at constant threat from a man who lives in a cave? As if he's going to invade? Get real.
You do realise he went after Iraq, a country who had a grand total of 0% involvement in the September 11th attacks, right? The States shouldn't be over there, nobody should.
Your president lied to get troops over there, under the guise of "They're threatening our freedom!", and because of people like you who convince them it's good to fight, but do nothing yourself, there are tremendous casualties for no reason. Many husbandless wives, fatherless kids etc. To say that in the face of the hard facts that prove this "war" was unjust, a sham and a waste of money and lives, is just idiocy.
OUR hand? What do you do Mr. Patriot? I mean, besides sit at your computer in Texas and cheer, what do you do? If you aren't out there fighting, don't say "we". You have no part in any of this, so don't act as if you are out there fighting. That's more disrespectful to the people YOU claim to respect than I could ever be. If there were less arm chair "YEAH! FIGHT FOR HONOUR (While I watch on Fox.)." people, there might be less families eternally broken up.
"His duty"? You have no duty to your country, you take obligation to it of your own free will. Your country does not ask things of you, your government do. Your government get you into fights that they wouldn't dare fight themselves, most of them over bs things anyway. Your country doesn't. Tillman deserves no sympathy because he knew what he was getting.
Terrorism will always exist, so trying to definitely end it is futile.
Yes, and? Was that meant as some kind of attempted appeal to my intellectual ego or something? "ME?! A DRAFT DODGER?! WHY I'LL SHOW THAT INTERNET POSTER HOW WRONG HE IS!".
Of course I would. You think I'd leave my friends, family and loved ones to fight a war that isn't even necessary? Or...a war in general? No. There are many people who society has conditioned into stupidly wanting to do that, so let them eat cake.
-AC [/B]
nah, Osama is not gonna invade. i am sure he will target civilians left and right, though. hell, even the plane that crashed into the pentagon targeted a strategic location. the twin towers? full of people working 9 to 5. they did nothing to deserve their fate.
yes, we went after Iraq. ever hear of a guy named saddam hussein? you think he was'nt in league with osama? where do you think osama is from? where do you think he is hiding?
i wouldnt go as far as to say that they are threatening our freedom, but the terrorists are threatening innocent civilians. yes, we sometimes have collateral innocent casualties in iraq, but we dont target them intently.
yes, you are right, i am not fighting. i am not a soldier. but that doesnt mean i cant support them and give them the respect they deserve. and, for some reason, if the government wanted to draft me, i would join up. i would do my duty and fight for my country.
yes, i am at a computer supporting the troops, or at least expressing my support. you, on the other hand, are doing the same, its just that your opinion differs. swing that judgemental pendelum back at yourself once in a while.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
yes, the USA has bombed targets and there has been some collateral damage. thats because the terrorists are chicken shit and decide to hide amongst civilians. in the 9/11 attacks, there wasnt a soldier in sight. it was an attack on innocent civilians.
There's the American spirit that the whole world has come to love. "Grr! The terrorists are chicken shit!". Yes, real mature, RJ. Then again, I suppose that's how they get you, but appealing to that stupid American pride that causes most of your nation to still believe they are the greatest on Earth, whilst living in Americaworld and not paying attention to anyone else unless they want something or want to bomb something.
I'm not condoning 9/11, I think it was horrid. It was the only event covered by the news that actually made me shed a tear, and I say that genuinely without any bs.
What also made me feel like shit was seeing pictures on an Iraqi child in a million pieces as a result of US cruise missiles. They shouldn't have even been attacking Iraq. Bin Laden wanted to kill American innocents, he killed (Mostly) American innocents. He didn't fly planes into our buildings to get at America, did he? No. American bombed Iraq to get at Afghanistan. Although, it wasn't actually for that reason, it was because Daddy Bush had unfinished business.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
nah, Osama is not gonna invade. i am sure he will target civilians left and right, though. hell, even the plane that crashed into the pentagon targeted a strategic location. the twin towers? full of people working 9 to 5. they did nothing to deserve their fate.
Yes, but you're acting like this happens every day. How often has it happened since then? How often had it happened before? Either way, your government attacked the wrong country. The casualties of 9/11 now pale in comparison to that of the Iraq war, civilians too, I believe, or is it soldiers? One of the two.
Those people did nothing to deserve their fate, except the soldiers, who signed up to serve Bush (Not America, Bush.) no matter WHAT, and then had the nerve to moan. Think before you post. They're not an imminent threat, so to act like the U.S Army is necessary for your "protection" in that sense is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
yes, we went after Iraq. ever hear of a guy named saddam hussein? you think he was'nt in league with osama? where do you think osama is from? where do you think he is hiding?
Yeah, the guy that the Americans were friends with when they needed him, I remember him. What I fail to remember is any reason for the attack on Iraq in retaliation to what Afghanistan did. There wasn't one.
You think he was in league, YOU think he was hiding him, YOU think this, you think that. So what? What proof do you have besides the news and Bush? None of that has been proven, a lot of it has been debunked. Still, at least there was the weapons of mass destruction, right? Oh wait, there wasn't any of them either.
Why continue to defend a massacre, an unneccesary massacre, when the man responsible for it, your president, admitted that he got it wrong about his "reasons" for going in?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i wouldnt go as far as to say that they are threatening our freedom, but the terrorists are threatening innocent civilians. yes, we sometimes have collateral innocent casualties in iraq, but we dont target them intently.
WE don't? Listen, until you're out there being a "good" soldier and only killing "bad" people, don't stand there and tell me what "you" are and are not doing. You're doing shit all, RJ. You're sitting at your computer in Texas, debating with me.
Second, don't act as if Americans don't do that kind of thing, surely you're not that silly.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
yes, you are right, i am not fighting. i am not a soldier. but that doesnt mean i cant support them and give them the respect they deserve. and, for some reason, if the government wanted to draft me, i would join up. i would do my duty and fight for my country.
Until that day, stop referring to them as "We". You're not them, you're not fighting, and suuure, they deserve respect for killing and dying in a war that isn't necessary (Because it factually wasn't. Getting rid of Saddam was an attempt at using the saving grace, but even that has become overwhelmed by the negatives.).
Second, I pity you. You have no duty, you've convinced yourself you have. Your government doesn't care about you, your country doesn't, PEOPLE in it that love you and care for you? THEY care, and you'd leave them, possibly for good, for people who don't? Sad.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
yes, i am at a computer supporting the troops, or at least expressing my support. you, on the other hand, are doing the same, its just that your opinion differs. swing that judgemental pendelum back at yourself once in a while.
Yes, but I'm not speaking as if I'm part of something I'm not. I'm not saying "We" in reference to an army I'm not a part of. You are.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There's the American spirit that the whole world has come to love. "Grr! The terrorists are chicken shit!". Yes, real mature, RJ. Then again, I suppose that's how they get you, but appealing to that stupid American pride that causes most of your nation to still believe they are the greatest on Earth, whilst living in Americaworld and not paying attention to anyone else unless they want something or want to bomb something.I'm not condoning 9/11, I think it was horrid. It was the only event covered by the news that actually made me shed a tear, and I say that genuinely without any bs.
What also made me feel like shit was seeing pictures on an Iraqi child in a million pieces as a result of US cruise missiles. They shouldn't have even been attacking Iraq. Bin Laden wanted to kill American innocents, he killed (Mostly) American innocents. He didn't fly planes into our buildings to get at America, did he? No. American bombed Iraq to get at Afghanistan. Although, it wasn't actually for that reason, it was because Daddy Bush had unfinished business.
Yes, but you're acting like this happens every day. How often has it happened since then? How often had it happened before? Either way, your government attacked the wrong country. The casualties of 9/11 now pale in comparison to that of the Iraq war, civilians too, I believe, or is it soldiers? One of the two.
Those people did nothing to deserve their fate, except the soldiers, who signed up to serve Bush (Not America, Bush.) no matter WHAT, and then had the nerve to moan. Think before you post. They're not an imminent threat, so to act like the U.S Army is necessary for your "protection" in that sense is ridiculous.
Yeah, the guy that the Americans were friends with when they needed him, I remember him. What I fail to remember is any reason for the attack on Iraq in retaliation to what Afghanistan did. There wasn't one.
You think he was in league, YOU think he was hiding him, YOU think this, you think that. So what? What proof do you have besides the news and Bush? None of that has been proven, a lot of it has been debunked. Still, at least there was the weapons of mass destruction, right? Oh wait, there wasn't any of them either.
Why continue to defend a massacre, an unneccesary massacre, when the man responsible for it, your president, admitted that he got it wrong about his "reasons" for going in?
WE don't? Listen, until you're out there being a "good" soldier and only killing "bad" people, don't stand there and tell me what "you" are and are not doing. You're doing shit all, RJ. You're sitting at your computer in Texas, debating with me.
Second, don't act as if Americans don't do that kind of thing, surely you're not that silly.
Until that day, stop referring to them as "We". You're not them, you're not fighting, and suuure, they deserve respect for killing and dying in a war that isn't necessary (Because it factually wasn't. Getting rid of Saddam was an attempt at using the saving grace, but even that has become overwhelmed by the negatives.).
Second, I pity you. You have no duty, you've convinced yourself you have. Your government doesn't care about you, your country doesn't, PEOPLE in it that love you and care for you? THEY care, and you'd leave them, possibly for good, for people who don't? Sad.
Yes, but I'm not speaking as if I'm part of something I'm not. I'm not saying "We" in reference to an army I'm not a part of. You are.
-AC
i know I have no duty, but the SOLDIERS have duty. when did i ever say i have duty? all i said is that i support the troops. stop putting words in my mouth.
i knew you'd eventually use the "american pride" crap on me. pretty pathetic angle, i must say. do i love my country? no. its just a place i live. do i support the troops? yes, i do. they are out there day in and day out risking their lives so that others might avoid the fate of 9/11. do i enjoy the freedom i have by living here? yes. so, if called upon, i would fight the good fight and defend me and mine. for anyone to shirk that obligation shows what a yellow bellied sapsucker they are. yes, i just called all draft dodgers cowards.
all i said is that they were in league, not that they were swapping spit in the shower. was saddam hiding him? dunno. probably not, because he was too busy hiding himself. osama doesnt need any help hiding. he is a trained killer who could probably take you and me out in less than 30 seconds. he grew up over there, so he knows the terrain like the back of his hand. so of course saddam wasnt hiding him.
why do you keep referring to my location and what i am doing? would it make a difference if i was in zimbabwe, living in a hut? what the hell are you trying to accomplish by this?
i need not your pity. i know in my heart that i would not dodge the draft as you said you would earlier. sure, i would miss FJ and my family, but, upon being drafted, i would then HAVE A DUTY. and, being an appreciative person, i cannot imagine how anyone can honestly say they would dodge the draft and still call himself a man. so i guess i should pity you.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i missed that last part of your previous post. you would really dodge the draft? so you want to scream "i want ny freedom" out of one corner of your mouth, and out of the other scream "but i am not willing to fight for it."?.....thats pretty spineless.
My freedom hasn't been under threat as long as I have ever been alive. I've seen no major war that has been an honest and genuine fight for any kind of freedom. It's not something I think about.
I care more about my family and friends than "freedom". Kid Rock was actually right, believe it or not. Freedom is overrated, my lifestyle does not require masses of freedom, nothing would vastly change, and in this day and age, invasion is just not on the cards. So my freedom, nor anyone's really, isn't under threat.
It's not spineless, because I'm not doing that. Not wanting to die isn't spineless, it's called being logical.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i know I have no duty, but the SOLDIERS have duty. when did i ever say i have duty? all i said is that i support the troops. stop putting words in my mouth.
The soldiers have duty because they sign up to fight unquestionably for whatever reason the man in charge wants to fight for. It doesn't matter whether it's just or unjust, you sign up to fight. So I have even LESS sympathy for those who moan about not liking Bush's war.
You said you'd do "your" duty.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i knew you'd eventually use the "american pride" crap on me. pretty pathetic angle, i must say. do i love my country? no. its just a place i live. do i support the troops? yes, i do. they are out there day in and day out risking their lives so that others might avoid the fate of 9/11. do i enjoy the freedom i have by living here? yes. so, if called upon, i would fight the good fight and defend me and mine. for anyone to shirk that obligation shows what a yellow bellied sapsucker they are. yes, i just called all draft dodgers cowards.
It's exactly what it is, though. If not American pride, then baseless pride, which is arguably worse.
Supporting them and wanting them to come home safely are two different things. The latter I can understand, the former I cannot. You are saying you support them unquestionably JUST because they choose to fight and possibly die for causes that may not even be right. That doesn't deserve respect, at all.
Stop referring to 9/11, it's not relevant. They're fighting Iraq, or were. That's like America going to war with Holland in WWII just because it's close to Germany. It's illogical and it created many more problems than it solved.
The freedom you have living there is not being threatened, why can't you see that? Afghanistan attacking the US didn't decrease your freedom, did it? You're not less able to go about your everyday life now because they flew two planes into the Twin Towers ONCE, are you? No, wake up.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
all i said is that they were in league, not that they were swapping spit in the shower. was saddam hiding him? dunno. probably not, because he was too busy hiding himself. osama doesnt need any help hiding. he is a trained killer who could probably take you and me out in less than 30 seconds. he grew up over there, so he knows the terrain like the back of his hand. so of course saddam wasnt hiding him.
Then why even bring it up?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
why do you keep referring to my location and what i am doing? would it make a difference if i was in zimbabwe, living in a hut? what the hell are you trying to accomplish by this?
Nothing negative, just stating the truth. Making you realise that you are exactly that. If you lived in a hut in Zimbabwe, or a cottage in the English countryside, I'd say the same. The point is, you are a random human civilian trying to give yourself a sense of involvement by saying "we". It's stupid.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i need not your pity. i know in my heart that i would not dodge the draft as you said you would earlier. sure, i would miss FJ and my family, but, upon being drafted, i would then HAVE A DUTY. and, being an appreciative person, i cannot imagine how anyone can honestly say they would dodge the draft and still call himself a man. so i guess i should pity you.
Hence why the draft dodge exists, so you can avoid a duty being thrust upon you that you neither asked for, nor wanted. There are idiots out there who genuinely want to sign up and fight, for whatever reason, let them do it. The good thing about your kind is that there's more blind, patriotic morons than there are people like me. You help make my choice to keep out of fighting easier.
I love that pathetic argument too. Insinuating that I am not a man just because I don't want to go to war. I guess you've just not evolved out of the neanderthalian "ME MAN! ME SHOOT GUN! ME FIGHT!" mindset.
A real man knows where his TRUE duty should be. By the side of his loved ones and cherished people, not fighting and dying for some man in a suit to whom your life means nothing, but hell, you go fight if you're ever called up. I'll be here enjoying the same freedom I always have.
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
read the posts again.
OK.
Originally posted by Bardock42
There is a difference between reasonable fights and signing up to invade a foreign country. To me...there is.
Seems fair.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so you wouldnt defend the freedom of your family and loved ones if it was required to do so?
Read them again- maybe you'd now like to read them...for the first time?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
My freedom hasn't been under threat as long as I have ever been alive. I've seen no major war that has been an honest and genuine fight for any kind of freedom. It's not something I think about.
I care more about my family and friends than "freedom". Kid Rock was actually right, believe it or not. Freedom is overrated, my lifestyle does not require masses of freedom, nothing would vastly change, and in this day and age, invasion is just not on the cards. So my freedom, nor anyone's really, isn't under threat.
It's not spineless, because I'm not doing that. Not wanting to die isn't spineless, it's called being logical.
The soldiers have duty because they sign up to fight unquestionably for whatever reason the man in charge wants to fight for. It doesn't matter whether it's just or unjust, you sign up to fight. So I have even LESS sympathy for those who moan about not liking Bush's war.have you ever met a soldier? one who was wounded in combat, or traumatized by the fighting?
You said you'd do "your" duty.i said IF i were drafted, i would not run, that i would do my duty. IF I WERE DRAFTED.
Supporting them and wanting them to come home safely are two different things. The latter I can understand, the former I cannot. You are saying you support them unquestionably JUST because they choose to fight and possibly die for causes that may not even be right. That doesn't deserve respect, at all.they deserve no respect just because you don't agree with the war they are fighting? so, if you and I were friends, and we were out drinking, and i got jumped by a gang of guys, would you jump in and help me? you seem like the type to cower in the shadows as my ass is handed to me.
Stop referring to 9/11, it's not relevant. They're fighting Iraq, or were. That's like America going to war with Holland in WWII just because it's close to Germany. It's illogical and it created many more problems than it solved.9/11 is TOTALLY relevant. where do you think most of the terrorists and their training facilities are?
The freedom you have living there is not being threatened, why can't you see that? Afghanistan attacking the US didn't decrease your freedom, did it? You're not less able to go about your everyday life now because they flew two planes into the Twin Towers ONCE, are you? No, wake up.again, let's just sit on our hands as terror takes over.
Nothing negative, just stating the truth. Making you realise that you are exactly that. If you lived in a hut in Zimbabwe, or a cottage in the English countryside, I'd say the same. The point is, you are a random human civilian trying to give yourself a sense of involvement by saying "we". It's stupid.it's the universal we. as in "our"country. as in "we" are U.S. citizens.
Hence why the draft dodge exists, so you can avoid a duty being thrust upon you that you neither asked for, nor wanted. There are idiots out there who genuinely want to sign up and fight, for whatever reason, let them do it. The good thing about your kind is that there's more blind, patriotic morons than there are people like me. You help make my choice to keep out of fighting easier.the draft dodge does not "exist". all that exists are cowards that would rather run than be a man and do his duty. blind and pathetic morons? riiiiight. that's what one would expect a coward to say.
I love that pathetic argument too. Insinuating that I am not a man just because I don't want to go to war. I guess you've just not evolved out of the neanderthalian "ME MAN! ME SHOOT GUN! ME FIGHT!" mindset.if you say so. excuse me while i knock FJ over the head and drag her into a cave.
A real man knows where his TRUE duty should be. By the side of his loved ones and cherished people, not fighting and dying for some man in a suit to whom your life means nothing, but hell, you go fight if you're ever called up. I'll be here enjoying the same freedom I always have.good for you. just sit back and let others fight for you.-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so it's just something you take for granted. i see.
I said it's something that has never been under threat. Don't add things to my posts.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so let's just sit back and let innocent blood be spilled? nice attitude.
In World War II, people got involved because they were all going to have their freedom genuinely threatened, as Germany were invading and conquering countries and armies, people like Joseph Mengele committing some of the most atrocious human acts while this was going on. I still wouldn't have fought, because it's not something I wish to do, and there are people who want to do it instead. My point is, that war was for just reason.
This one isn't.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i am sure all soldiers would rather not die. it's not about not wanting to die. it's about being part of a society, about standing up for what you believe in. or would we be better off just sitting on our hands waiting for the next attack? it's called being pro-active.
Standing up for what you believe in, huh? If you believe in what Bush is preaching then I sincerely hope you get off to war now, because you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
If you believe this is what's right for the world, then I recommend you sign up and put your money where your mouth is.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
have you ever met a soldier? one who was wounded in combat, or traumatized by the fighting?
My grandfather on my father's side was a WWII gunner, my grandfather on my mother's side worked on ships during WWI.
A good friend of my father's has a son who was a marine, I've met him many times.
How is this relevant? Are you going to ask me if I think they're stupid?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i said IF i were drafted, i would not run, that i would do my duty. IF I WERE DRAFTED.
So why wouldn't you do it voluntarily? Why wait 'til you're forced? If it's such a respectable act, if it's worth so much, why do you need to be forced into it?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
they deserve no respect just because you don't agree with the war they are fighting? so, if you and I were friends, and we were out drinking, and i got jumped by a gang of guys, would you jump in and help me? you seem like the type to cower in the shadows as my ass is handed to me.
How in the red hell is that relevant to ANYTHING? You're asking me if I'd defend a friend who got jumped for absolutely no reason? Yes, because it's someone I care about.
Do you read posts?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
9/11 is TOTALLY relevant. where do you think most of the terrorists and their training facilities are?
I don't know, I don't go out for beers with the guys, I'd imagine it's not the kind of info they share.
The FACT is, Iraq didn't commit 9/11, Bush went to war with Iraq for false reasons that the public sucked up because Bush convinced the idiots that their freedom was at stake.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
again, let's just sit on our hands as terror takes over.
Answer my question: Has your real life been restricted because of 9/11 or any event thereafter? Are you less able now to live your life comfortably and happily than you were pre-9/11?
The fact is, your freedom was never at stake, nor is it now. The idea of winning a war on terror is dumb, terrorism will always exist.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
it's the universal we. as in "our"country. as in "we" are U.S. citizens.
You were referring to the army.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
the draft dodge does not "exist". all that exists are cowards that would rather run than be a man and do his duty. blind and pathetic morons? riiiiight. that's what one would expect a coward to say.
Why are you suggesting that going to war is a manly thing?
You're an idiot. I'm less of a man for not wanting to fight a war and possibly die, for a cause that in all probability, I disagree with? Fine, I'll take that label. It's not true, but if that's what you're going to label me, I'll take it. I don't want to die for something stupid, what a fool I must be, eh? If it takes a war to confirm your manhood, I suggest checking if you have any manhood to begin with.
You're not fighting for your country, you're fighting for your government.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
if you say so. excuse me while i knock FJ over the head and drag her into a cave.
A real man's girlfriend usually obliges him for sex without any kind of blunt force trauma. I guess that's something that's part of the "real man" club, though.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
good for you. just sit back and let others fight for you.
I will fight for me and my loved ones when the situation calls for it. Seeing as there are people out there dumb enough to believe that by going to war they are protecting my freedom, sure, knock yourself out.
If my friend is jumped, I'll help. If my girl is jumped, I'll help. If Tony Blair gets into a fight with another country cos he's an idiot, he won't sway my hand by trying to convince me my freedom is at stake, it's not.
"They threaten the way we live!". They don't.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauritalk about hypocrite alert.
I said it's something that has never been under threat. Don't add things to my posts.
In World War II, people got involved because they were all going to have their freedom genuinely threatened, as Germany were invading and conquering countries and armies, people like Joseph Mengele committing some of the most atrocious human acts while this was going on. I still wouldn't have fought, because it's not something I wish to do, and there are people who want to do it instead. My point is, that war was for just reason.so if you were alive back then, and your country is being bombed, you wouldnt rise up and fight?This one isn't.
Standing up for what you believe in, huh? If you believe in what Bush is preaching then I sincerely hope you get off to war now, because you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.as i said, if i were eligible for selective service, and i were to be called upon, i would go.
My grandfather on my father's side was a WWII gunner, my grandfather on my mother's side worked on ships during WWI.and you have no respect for these people?A good friend of my father's has a son who was a marine, I've met him many times.
How is this relevant? Are you going to ask me if I think they're stupid?
How in the red hell is that relevant to ANYTHING? You're asking me if I'd defend a friend who got jumped for absolutely no reason? Yes, because it's someone I care about.ok. but, if you think i deserved it, if i did something that you warned me not to do, something you disagreed with, would you still help me?Do you read posts?
Answer my question: Has your real life been restricted because of 9/11 or any event thereafter? Are you less able now to live your life comfortably and happily than you were pre-9/11?no, but what about the lives of the people who were in the twin towers? what if you and i were in the twin towers when the planes hit?
The fact is, your freedom was never at stake, nor is it now. The idea of winning a war on terror is dumb, terrorism will always exist.and i agree with you that terrorism will always exist. sad but
Why are you suggesting that going to war is a manly thing?an idiot? ok, whatever. better an idiot than a fence sitter who is afraid to take a stand. and i have no need to check my manhood. i know what i would do. you have stated what you would do.You're an idiot. I'm less of a man for not wanting to fight a war and possibly die, for a cause that in all probability, I disagree with? Fine, I'll take that label. It's not true, but if that's what you're going to label me, I'll take it. I don't want to die for something stupid, what a fool I must be, eh? If it takes a war to confirm your manhood, I suggest checking if you have any manhood to begin with.
You're not fighting for your country, you're fighting for your government.
A real man's girlfriend usually obliges him for sex without any kind of blunt force trauma. I guess that's something that's part of the "real man" club, though.OMFG.....i was joking. get a clue, man.
I will fight for me and my loved ones when the situation calls for it. Seeing as there are people out there dumb enough to believe that by going to war they are protecting my freedom, sure, knock yourself out.for your girl, i believe you would, i really do. if it were your friend? kinda hard to say what one would do.
If my friend is jumped, I'll help. If my girl is jumped, I'll help. If Tony Blair gets into a fight with another country cos he's an idiot, he won't sway my hand by trying to convince me my freedom is at stake, it's not.you have made it quite clear your feelings on this issue. i get it. no need to keep talking in circles and repeating yourself."They threaten the way we live!". They don't.
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
talk about hypocrite alert.
Technically that doesn't apply. A+ for effort.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if you were alive back then, and your country is being bombed, you wouldnt rise up and fight?
No. I'd make moves to protect the people closest to me, not abandon them to go and die. Save the "coward" and "You're not a man!" retorts, they roll off my back like water off a duck's back.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
as i said, if i were eligible for selective service, and i were to be called upon, i would go.
Yeah, but that's not standing up for what you believe in. That's having a "duty" forced on you that you didn't ask for or want.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and you have no respect for these people?
I respect my grandfather for being an academically brilliant man, for being a good person, not for going to war, because I think that was a stupid decision. Unless, of course, he was forced to go, then it's hardly his fault. He says that it's not something he looks back on with pride. War and being a soldier, according to him, is much more glossy if you aren't one. He doesn't sigh dreamily whilst looking back on what he did, and that war had a reason.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
ok. but, if you think i deserved it, if i did something that you warned me not to do, something you disagreed with, would you still help me?
No. If you went out and f*cked some guy's girlfriend and he tried beating your ass, you're reaping what you sow. Of course if he attempted to kill you, I'd step in because at that point the retribution doesn't fit the crime. Anything else and you're on your own. If I say "Hey, don't do that, it's wrong and you'll end up suffering.", and you ignored me anyway, then I'd ignore you when it blew up in your face.
And if you think you're gonna dodge the question that was asked and then blatantly cut out of your reply, you won't. I'll ask you again and please answer it this time. It's shameful that you specifically cut it out of your reply as it is, and yet you speak to me of being a man and possessing cowardice. Be a man and answer the question, RJ. Stand up for what you believe in and answer the question. If you can't walk it, don't talk it. Here:
Why wouldn't you do it voluntarily? Why wait 'til you're forced? If it's such a respectable act, if it's worth so much, why do you need to be forced into it?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
no, but what about the lives of the people who were in the twin towers? what if you and i were in the twin towers when the planes hit?
We wouldn't know about it would we? We'd be dead. What is your point here?
It's extremely tragic that they died in the circumstances they did, on a horrific scale, but what's your point? Would I fight for them? No. I don't even owe it to them to mourn, but I was upset because it was genuinely tragic. Those are people that I felt did deserve a bit of thought, I wouldn't go and fight in a war for them, they're nobodies to me.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and i agree with you that terrorism will always exist. sad but
true, good call on that.
Splendid.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
an idiot? ok, whatever. better an idiot than a fence sitter who is afraid to take a stand. and i have no need to check my manhood. i know what i would do. you have stated what you would do.
You haven't answered my question.
I'm anything BUT afraid to stand up and act on what I believe. I don't believe in going to war, it's not one of my choices and it never will be, so I'll never do it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OMFG.....i was joking. get a clue, man.
Oh yes, because, I did actually believe you were going to hit her on the head and drag her into a cave. Come on...
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
for your girl, i believe you would, i really do. if it were your friend? kinda hard to say what one would do.
That's another thing; I don't defend people based on who they are, I defend them based on either what they've done or not done.
Friend, girlfriend or foe, if you do something I agree with, I'll agree with it. If you do something I disagree with, I'll not defend you.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you have made it quite clear your feelings on this issue. i get it. no need to keep talking in circles and repeating yourself.
There is a need to repeat myself when you keep dodging my questions and seeing things in my posts that aren't there.
Like when you told VVD to read the posts. Bardock said there's a difference between fighting a reasonable battle and signing up to fight and invade a foreign country, to which you asked him if he wouldn't defend his loved ones, as if that were ever implied in his post.
If you read more closely and stopped the over-emotional, reactionary posting, I wouldn't have to repeat myself.
When you reply, please answer this question. I will repeat it civilly and for the last time because I have a feeling you will dodge it again (Which would prove cowardice on your part.): Why wouldn't you do it voluntarily? Why wait 'til you're forced? If it's such a respectable act, if it's worth so much, why do you need to be forced into it?
-AC
When you reply, please answer this question. I will repeat it civilly and for the last time because I have a feeling you will dodge it again (Which would prove cowardice on your part.): Why wouldn't you do it voluntarily? Why wait 'til you're forced? If it's such a respectable act, if it's worth so much, why do you need to be forced into it?-AC
i was this close (holds fingers together) to joining the Marines at age 19, but my dad talked me out of it. at that point, it wasnt about defending my country, but about belonging to something.
are you happy now? 😉
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
if i were 20 again, i probably would volunteer for it, despite my family protesting. i am pretty sure there is a cut off date as far as age goes for the military. in the Navy, i believe it is like 31 years old.i was this close (holds fingers together) to joining the Marines at age 19, but my dad talked me out of it. at that point, it wasnt about defending my country, but about belonging to something.
are you happy now? 😉
List of maximum ages for enlisting in the US military:
Active Army - 42
Army Reserves - 42
Active Air Force - 27
Air Force Reserve - 34
Active Navy - 34
Naval Reserves - 39
Active Marines - 28
Marine Corps Reserve - 29
Active and Reserve Coast Guard - 27
That was from a messageboard dedicated to such discussion. I figured it might be a bit off, so I looked further:
http://usmilitary.about.com/b/a/156352.htm
We know that you "wanted" to, but got talked out of it (Gee, I wonder how.). You've said you would if you could go back, and tried weaseling out of answering by suggesting you're too old.
Your profile says you were born in 1970, which would mean you are still below either the limit in the list, or the limit displayed in the link above.
I'll ask again: Why haven't you volunteered?
-AC
Just to add, because I'm an informative person:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-08-01-army-age_x.htm
There it says the age limit is now just under 42.
Volunteer, RJ. You said you would do your duty if called, then you said you would volunteer if you were 20. If it's such a respectable, manly act, why aren't you volunteering now? Don't give me that "I'm too old.", because the US Army doesn't think you are.
-AC