Statement from the Family of Pat Tillman

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I don't think anyone's being critical of them joining but rather being critical of the fact that some soldiers are moaning about the risks of getting killed. If you sign up to the army you're taking on risk if you can't handle that then don't join.

There are always whiners in any group, they're the minority, so who gives a shit; let them whine.

And, people have been critical of the military and the need for soldiers. Alpha Centauri for one called them "Tools" used to wage unjust wars and implied a lack of necessity [protection]; I don't think he's the only one.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Just to add, because I'm an informative person:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-08-01-army-age_x.htm

There it says the age limit is now just under 42.

Volunteer, RJ. You said you would do your duty if called, then you said you would volunteer if you were 20. If it's such a respectable, manly act, why aren't you volunteering now? Don't give me that "I'm too old.", because the US Army doesn't think you are.

-AC

now i am sure you will think i am full of shit, and i could care less. you asked me why i dont up and volunteer, and now you have a valid answer.

Originally posted by Robtard
Alpha Centauri for one called them "Tools" used to wage unjust wars and implied a lack of necessity for one; I don't think he's the only one.

What are they then? You tell me what you believe they are, if not tools that are used to wage unjust wars.

I wasn't suggesting that was the reason armies were created, though it's obviously a part. I was suggesting that's what they are now, and have been for a long, long time.

You look at the Iraq "war" and tell me these men aren't tools. They are used by their government to fight unjust battles, and the worst part is, they sign up to do so unquestionably, then moan when they don't like what they're fighting for, that's just BS.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i was talked out of it by my dad and grandma. apparently one of my uncles was a marine during WWII, another family member during korea, and one of my uncles during vietnam. my uncle? he was shot up pretty bad in Iwo Jima, and he never recovered. he was killed in the line of duty as a parish constable. the one during Korea? he was KIA. my uncle in vietnam? he died of a drug overdose in the late 70's. all 3 went to war, all 3 came back messed up or killed. so it's natural that they would want me to reconsider. my dad was like "ok, you want to be a marine? fine, but do this for me. come and work for me for a few months. see what it's like to be an adult in the working world. then, if you still want to join, you have my blessing." how can i refuse that? well, a few months turned into a few years. this led to that, things happened, and i never got around to enlisting.

You put a lot of effort into it and I haven't got much of a choice but to take your word for it, though it sounds like fabrication. That's not my concern, my concern is that you still haven't answered my question:

Why don't you volunteer now? Why haven't you volunteered since?

If it's such a respectable profession, if it's a duty you'd WILLINGLY and PROUDLY accept if forced, a manly duty, why not take it up of your own accord?

This is why I have to repeat myself, because you repeatedly dodge.

EDIT: See below.

-AC

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Well Rogue I'm flattered. Has anybody ever told you how witty and bitey your comebacks are?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
well, i looked at the physical requirements, and i can meet them all, easily. i can even meet the requirements for 17 year olds. the one problem i have is running a long distance. i can still sprint as fast as i could when i was 20, and its not a question of me getting winded. it's my ankle. in my mid 20's, i sprained my right ankle terribly playing basketball. i tore every ligament i have. as a matter of fact, i talked to a recruiter like a year later, and he assured me, upon seeing the doctors report on my x rays, that it would pose a SERIOUS problem for me. he advised that i get surgery then get back with him in a year or so to ensure that i would be 100% going into basic training.

now i am sure you will think i am full of shit, and i could care less. you asked me why i dont up and volunteer, and now you have a valid answer.

Valid? That's just about the biggest load of horseshit I've ever heard. I know this because you previously said you'd definitely do duty if forced. You never said "If they drafted me, I would if I could, but due to medical issues, I cannot.".

It's all falling apart for you, "I can't, I've got a bad leg.". You even said above that this still doesn't rule you out of enlisting and being combat worthy, so why haven't you chased it up? Come on, answers please Mr. "You're not a man.".

"I can run as fast as I could when I was 17...now I'm late 30s, but it's somehow a problem for me.". Pathetic. Never speak to me of cowardice again.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

You put a lot of effort into it and I haven't got much of a choice but to take your word for it, though it sounds like fabrication. That's not my concern, my concern is that you still haven't answered my question:

Why don't you volunteer now? Why haven't you volunteered since?

If it's such a respectable profession, if it's a duty you'd WILLINGLY and PROUDLY accept if forced, a manly duty, why not take it up of your own accord?

This is why I have to repeat myself, because you repeatedly dodge.

EDIT: See below.

-AC

i dont volunteer now because of what i previously posted, having a pre existing injury that requires surgery would hinder me. i dont know how much more clear i can be on that.

i tried to volunteer since, as i previously posted. and again, the injury.

clear enough?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
its been told to me on several occasions. what i dont get is why you chimed in insulting me for no reason. and why you think i fit the "fat and lazy" stereotype for americans. do you believe all stereotypes?

No it is not about stereotypes at all, you said if you were forced you'd join the army, definately, and gave no reason as to why you haven't already joined. The reason I chimed in insulting you is that what you were saying was stupid and nonsensical.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What are they then? You tell me what you believe they are, if not tools that are used to wage unjust wars.

I wasn't suggesting that was the reason armies were created, though it's obviously a part. I was suggesting that's what they are now, and have been for a long, long time.

You look at the Iraq "war" and tell me these men aren't tools. They are used by their government to fight unjust battles, and the worst part is, they sign up to do so unquestionably, then moan when they don't like what they're fighting for, that's just BS.

-AC

Iraq is just one war, it doesn't equate to the larger scheme of things. Do you honestly think your way of life wouldn't be affected if Britain/UK did away with it's military?

As noted, there are whiners in every group, they're the minority so let them ***** and moan.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i dont volunteer now because of what i previously posted, having a pre existing injury that requires surgery would hinder me. i dont know how much more clear i can be on that.

i tried to volunteer since, as i previously posted. and again, the injury.

clear enough?

See this post:

"It's all falling apart for you, 'I can't, I've got a bad leg.'. You even said above that this still doesn't rule you out of enlisting and being combat worthy, so why haven't you chased it up? Come on, answers please Mr. 'You're not a man.'.

'I can run as fast as I could when I was 17...now I'm late 30s, but it's somehow a problem for me.'. Pathetic. Never speak to me of cowardice again.".

Nothing you said previously rules you out of applying or enlisting, and yet, you haven't tried have you?

We both know why. So at least have the decency to admit it. You don't want to fight, you just want to talk about fighting. You are of acceptable age and, according to your post, fitness too. So why haven't you tried again?

It sounds like you're making the most of an injury that wouldn't matter.

-AC

Originally posted by Robtard
Iraq is just one war, it doesn't equate to the larger scheme of things. Do you honestly think your way of life wouldn't be affected if Britain/UK did away with it's military?

As noted, there are whiners in every group, they're the minority so let them ***** and moan.

Who said anything about doing away with military? I said my freedom has not been threatened once since I have been alive. 9/11 didn't threaten your freedom either.

The fact is, armies will exist, and there will be idiots who are easily convinced that joining and fighting for whatever cause the government sees fit, is a manly, brave act. So let them. I fail to see how I'm a coward because I don't want to.

You'll find that most of the people who have the opinion "YEAH! OUR TROOPS! GO TROOPS! YOU'RE A COWARD!", would never sign up. See Rogue Jedi for details.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Valid? That's just about the biggest load of horseshit I've ever heard. I know this because you previously said you'd definitely do duty if forced. You never said "If they drafted me, I would if I could, but due to medical issues, I cannot.".

It's all falling apart for you, "I can't, I've got a bad leg.". You even said above that this still doesn't rule you out of enlisting and being combat worthy, so why haven't you chased it up? Come on, answers please Mr. "You're not a man.".

"I can run as fast as I could when I was 17...now I'm late 30s, but it's somehow a problem for me.". Pathetic. Never speak to me of cowardice again.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if you were a recruiter and a guy came to you with...lets say a bad knee, one that could very well be reinjured, would you still accept him? what if, in the heat of combat, he has to run to point A from point B to provide cover for his unit and his knee folds? what then? go ahead and accept him, knowing this could happen, leaving his unit hanging in the wind? look at the big picture.
if you and i were soldiers, and my vision was questionable, would you trust me to cover your back in a firefight?

There are more jobs in the army than being a front line soldier....

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
There are more jobs in the army than being a front line soldier....

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Who said anything about doing away with military? I said my freedom has not been threatened once since I have been alive. 9/11 didn't threaten your freedom either.

The fact is, armies will exist, and there will be idiots who are easily convinced that joining and fighting for whatever cause the government sees fit, is a manly, brave act. So let them. I fail to see how I'm a coward because I don't want to.

You'll find that most of the people who have the opinion "YEAH! OUR TROOPS! GO TROOPS! YOU'RE A COWARD!", would never sign up. See Rogue Jedi for details.

-AC

The 9/11 attacks could have threatened my life/killed me.

I didn't call you a coward for not joining the military; but in my opinion you're being overly critical of the military generally speaking.

There's always asshats like that... I debate with them in the only other forum I debate in; which happens to be littered with Republican-Conservatives.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Who said anything about doing away with military? I said my freedom has not been threatened once since I have been alive. 9/11 didn't threaten your freedom either.

The fact is, armies will exist, and there will be idiots who are easily convinced that joining and fighting for whatever cause the government sees fit, is a manly, brave act. So let them. I fail to see how I'm a coward because I don't want to.

You'll find that most of the people who have the opinion "YEAH! OUR TROOPS! GO TROOPS! YOU'RE A COWARD!", would never sign up. See Rogue Jedi for details.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and you also said that if there was a war like WWII going on right now, you still wouldnt enlist or join if drafted. even when zee germans are bombing the crap out of your hometown, even as they prepare to invade, you would do nothing.

So? This isn't about me. I've made my intentions, or lack thereof, toward war and army recruitment very clear and I have always stood by them.

Stop trying to dodge. Funny, you're a much bigger dodger than I could ever be.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if you were a recruiter and a guy came to you with...lets say a bad knee, one that could very well be reinjured, would you still accept him? what if, in the heat of combat, he has to run to point A from point B to provide cover for his unit and his knee folds? what then? go ahead and accept him, knowing this could happen, leaving his unit hanging in the wind? look at the big picture.
if you and i were soldiers, and my vision was questionable, would you trust me to cover your back in a firefight?

Hahaha, how desperate. Not only are you trying to give me specific scenarios in which your "injury" would prove dangerous, but you mess up on logic trying to cover your tracks.

First off, past injury or not, you said you can still run as fast as you did when you were 17, you are now late 30s. It's clearly not a "bad knee" is it? Not if you can do that.

Second, that recruiter scenario is bs. They are hiring people that could very well get blown to bits, you think they're going to turn you away because you MIGHT get injured in training, or your knee might give out on the battlefield? Such stupid crap. You could get shot in the face on a battlefield with your knee working fine. Your legs could get blown off, you could get injured in all manner of ways that cause a hinderance to your fellow soldiers, and you are there suggesting you couldn't go because your knee might give out?

I don't buy that, and I call bullshit on you. Your posts scream of nothing but cowardice and your cover has been well and truly blown.

-AC

Originally posted by Robtard
The 9/11 attacks could have threatened my life/killed me.

Irrelevant. Did they? No. Did they threaten your everyday freedom? Are you living life restricted? No, no.

Originally posted by Robtard
I didn't call you a coward for not joining the military; but in my opinion you're being overly critical of the military generally speaking.

I don't agree. I don't think people are critical enough.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Irrelevant. Did they? No. Did they threaten your everyday freedom? Are you living life less restricted? No, no.

I don't agree. I don't think people are critical enough.

-AC

Obviously no, if they did I'd be dead... Not sure what your argument here is as it pretains to topic, because the attacks on 9/11 only killed around three 3,000 people it's irrelevant?

Originally posted by Robtard
Obviously no, if they did I'd be dead... Not sure what your argument here is as it pretains to topic, because the attacks on 9/11 only killed around three 3,000 people it's irrelevant?

What they COULD have done IS irrelevant, seeing as we're not discussing what they could have done. We're discussing what they did, and the effects of.

If you have nothing to say to it, say nothing. Don't say something entirely different and attempt to suggest it's relevant.

-AC

Bored with this circular argument, i mean A.C. how many times can you argue the same thing on the same board?

-T.C.