And with all the Mikey having the most potential talk is really not substantiated. In the original comics he did almost nothing until later developments had him as the most NATURALLY ATHLETIC of the group, not as the most natural fighter. He is the fastest and most agile, but he is not the best fighter and it has never been explicitly stated that he has hands down the most potential. And no bloodlust means you fight to the best of the abilities you currently have.
Mikey couldn't just BE a better fighter is he tried really hard. He'd have to go through the training that he never does in order to become better. You can't just say he has the most potential, I could say that for anyone and not be able to prove it and even if it is true it doesn't mean he has all that skill right now. He did close to nothing in TMNT.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Leonardo and Raphael versus Michaelangelo and Donatello
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Based off of what? Leonardo has beaten Shredder, none of them have.Mikey won by lots of luck in his favor.
It's always been hinted that Mikey is the best turtle, except he is much lazier than the other 3.
Since this is Mikey realizing his full potential, he would be def the best.
Mikey is like Ken, he has more power than Ryu, but doesn't train half as hard, yet is still pretty much his equal.
Originally posted by MetalmanxI wouldn't give Don the edge in a straight up fight.
I still say Donny would beat Raph. The least training Turtle or not, he's still a master at what he does. And in addition with the bo-staff as a weapon (greatly superior to the sai), a vastly smarter/quicker thinker, and a level-headed persona, he would take Raph down after a long fight.
Originally posted by python99
How is that a win? Its not like he dissarmed him by knocking out his hand.
So you're saying that by the debating tules if two ninjas were fighting and one was using sais and one was using swords, and the one with the sais broke the other's weapons and kicked him to the ground, easily able to kill him afterwards... that's not a win?
A win doesn't have to be fair, it just has to work, which was part of the ninja code. Although he is a fictional character, Leonardo understands that and he was pretty knocked up, judging by the way he sluggishly got up after the enounter and had little energy left.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Leonardo and Raphael versus Michaelangelo and Donatello
Originally posted by masterbruceNo he's not, that was just something written in the new cartoon. 😆 I think he has the ability to increase the fastest as he tries the least, but that won't make him leagues stronger than the other turtles. It's obvious the one who doesn't apply as much will improve faster, but the gap is still significant. In the original comics, Leonardo was much more vicious and deadly, he's not as soft as he is in recent years when they made it for the family.
It's always been hinted that Mikey is the best turtle, except he is much lazier than the other 3.Since this is Mikey realizing his full potential, he would be def the best.
Mikey is like Ken, he has more power than Ryu, but doesn't train half as hard, yet is still pretty much his equal.
Leo is called the "perfect turtle" they all train extensively. Leo is better mentally and spiritually than the other turtles, a big part.
He was the only one to naturally summon the spirit dragon.
Potential arguments are crap by themselves as they are unsubstaniated. Ken isn't stronger than Ryu either, Ryu has more potential and that's why Bison wanted him, that's why he will beat his father Akuma. Potential is a bit stupid because your potential is unlimited as long as you go, it's when you stop that it stops. Leo is only a year or two older than the other turtles.
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
And with all the Mikey having the most potential talk is really not substantiated. In the original comics he did almost nothing until later developments had him as the most NATURALLY ATHLETIC of the group, not as the most natural fighter. He is the fastest and most agile, but he is not the best fighter and it has never been explicitly stated that he has hands down the most potential. And no bloodlust means you fight to the best of the abilities you currently have.Mikey couldn't just BE a better fighter is he tried really hard. He'd have to go through the training that he never does in order to become better. You can't just say he has the most potential, I could say that for anyone and not be able to prove it and even if it is true it doesn't mean he has all that skill right now. He did close to nothing in TMNT.
Speed and agility is SO important in a fight that that alone gives Mikey a HUGE advantage.
His weapons are also the most versatile. They have reach, speed, explosive power, and even manuerverability.
Mikey at full potential and bloodlust is better than all the other turtles.
And as to Leonardo being the only one able to defeat Shredder, that's not entirely true. In the original comic run the four turtles fought against Shredder and Leo and Raph were the last ones standing. Raph is the one who disarmed Shredder and knocked him to the ground. He was about to kill him- much like in the movie against Leo- but allowed Leo to have the finishing blow and decapitate Shredder. This is noted as "the most significant stage in Raphael's character developement." by the writers. As he ALLOWS Leo to kill Shredder.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Leonardo and Raphael versus Michaelangelo and Donatello
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Ken isn't stronger than Ryu either,
Ryu trains every second of every day.
Ken chases girls every second of every day.
Yet Ken still holds his own against Ryu.
If Ken trained even a fraction as much as Ryu, he would beat Ryu.
And potential is not pointless. Ken has the potential to beat Ryu, whereas E Honda can train as much as he wants and he'll never come close.
Originally posted by Jade LightningNo, they ganged up on him and Leo told him to kill himself, but Shredder refused.
And as to Leonardo being the only one able to defeat Shredder, that's not entirely true. In the original comic run the four turtles fought against Shredder and Leo and Raph were the last ones standing. Raph is the one who disarmed Shredder and knocked him to the ground. He was about to kill him- much like in the movie against Leo- but allowed Leo to have the finishing blow and decapitate Shredder. This is noted as "the most significant stage in Raphael's character developement." by the writers. As he ALLOWS Leo to kill Shredder.
In the movie, Leo was the only one to hit him, but he rushed and Shred threatened to kill him. They gave up their weapons.
Leo has been the only one to consistently put up a good fight against him, Shredder has wanted him as his pupil on several occasions.
Originally posted by masterbruce
Speed and agility is SO important in a fight that that alone gives Mikey a HUGE advantage.His weapons are also the most versatile. They have reach, speed, explosive power, and even manuerverability.
Mikey at full potential and bloodlust is better than all the other turtles.
I know by the way you speak that you have little knowledge about martial weapons. I am a martial artist and have been training since I was young, and Myself along with most others- including my Shihan- consider the Nunchakus to be among the worste weapons to use in combat. As someone mentionaed about the NGC video Fight Science, as well as in Xtreme Martial Arts from the Discovery Channel, they are unpredictable and not as damaging as the other weapons. They are also terrible for defense and not durable. It is a poorly made weapons made more for show and intimidation than actual combat.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Leonardo and Raphael versus Michaelangelo and Donatello
Originally posted by masterbruceNo, Ken trains extensively but is married. Ryu and Leo don't just train their bodies, alot of it's spent on training their minds.
Ryu trains every second of every day.Ken chases girls every second of every day.
Yet Ken still holds his own against Ryu.
If Ken trained even a fraction as much as Ryu, he would beat Ryu.
And potential is not pointless. Ken has the potential to beat Ryu, whereas E Honda can train as much as he wants and he'll never come close.
Ryu has the longest winning streak of the two, but Ken can hold his own. But canonically Ryu is quite a bit stronger after training with Oro.
Which is why he holds his own against Akuma (which ken couldn't do), Bison wants him, Oro trains him. Ryu was shown to have more potential early on, he is the potential type.
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
So you're saying that by the debating tules if two ninjas were fighting and one was using sais and one was using swords, and the one with the sais broke the other's weapons and kicked him to the ground, easily able to kill him afterwards... that's not a win?A win doesn't have to be fair, it just has to work, which was part of the ninja code. Although he is a fictional character, Leonardo understands that and he was pretty knocked up, judging by the way he sluggishly got up after the enounter and had little energy left.
A win is does not have to be fair, agreed, but as far as being a ninja where is the honor? So Raph is a better fighter because he broke Leo's weapons? Hand to hand combat should determines the better fighter, since all the weapons have their strengths and weaknesses. ie Raph breaking Leos weapons with a forceful wrist twist
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No, they ganged up on him and Leo told him to kill himself, but Shredder refused.In the movie, Leo was the only one to hit him, but he rushed and Shred threatened to kill him. They gave up their weapons.
Leo has been the only one to consistently put up a good fight against him, Shredder has wanted him as his pupil on several occasions.
Raphael is the one who was going to kill Shredder, it was him and Leo vs Shredder and he LET Leo win. Besides, that doesn't really matter now because in chronological order, the new TMNT movie is the most credible source we have because it is written by the two original comic writers and takes place after all of the other shows and movies.
Originally posted by Jade Lightning
I know by the way you speak that you have little knowledge about martial weapons. I am a martial artist and have been training since I was young, and Myself along with most others- including my Shihan- consider the Nunchakus to be among the worste weapons to use in combat. As someone mentionaed about the NGC video Fight Science, as well as in Xtreme Martial Arts from the Discovery Channel, they are unpredictable and not as damaging as the other weapons. They are also terrible for defense and not durable. It is a poorly made weapons made more for show and intimidation than actual combat.
nuchakus are hard to master and are useless in the hands of amateurs. But a true master of nunchakus could def beat a master of sais or bo, I'm not sure about katanas.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Leonardo and Raphael versus Michaelangelo and Donatello
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No he's not, that was just something written in the new cartoon. 😆 I think he has the ability to increase the fastest as he tries the least, but that won't make him leagues stronger than the other turtles. It's obvious the one who doesn't apply as much will improve faster, but the gap is still significant. In the original comics, Leonardo was much more vicious and deadly, he's not as soft as he is in recent years when they made it for the family.Leo is called the "perfect turtle" they all train extensively. Leo is better mentally and spiritually than the other turtles, a big part.
He was the only one to naturally summon the spirit dragon.
Potential arguments are crap by themselves as they are unsubstaniated. Ken isn't stronger than Ryu either, Ryu has more potential and that's why Bison wanted him, that's why he will beat his father Akuma. Potential is a bit stupid because your potential is unlimited as long as you go, it's when you stop that it stops. Leo is only a year or two older than the other turtles.
i agree that ryu is superior to ken, but potential is real some people have more potential then other for different things, i just don´t think that apply to mikey, i also that was something that was hinted only in the cartoon, and is now on wikipedia.
and where did you read leo is 1 year older then his brothers? weren´t they´re eggs put at the same time, i couls belive leo´s egg crack first but he´s not one year older.
Originally posted by python99
A win is does not have to be fair, agreed, but as far as being a ninja where is the honor? So Raph is a better fighter because he broke Leo's weapons? Hand to hand combat should determines the better fighter, since all the weapons have their strengths and weaknesses. ie Raph breaking Leos weapons with a forceful wrist twist
I'm going to give you my final thoughts on this side-subject. I think that in overall skill Leo and Raph are about equal, having an equal chance at beating one another. I completely disagree with you saying the Raphael's disarming Leo in the movie is not a win, because that's just about as good a win as I could iagine without Raph killing his brother. I think those two are the best turtles and I think where Leo is probably more skilled in weapon fighter, Raph has a more natural affinity for combat, getting more actual fighting experience than Leo.