Originally posted by carver9
Doing what, responding to supes attacks because I could easily bring up the max lord saga. Supes retained all of his abilities, he just thought he was fighting someone else and bats held him off pretty good (almost got killed in the end though).
Who did he think he was fighting?
Originally posted by carver9
Then I could bring up bats showing against a supes that was controlled by darkseid.
I think Batman blantantly said Superman was slower.
Originally posted by carver9
Doing what, responding to supes attacks because I could easily bring up the max lord saga. Supes retained all of his abilities, he just thought he was fighting someone else and bats held him off pretty good (almost got killed in the end though).Then I could bring up bats showing against a supes that was controlled by darkseid.
no. superman was under mental control and was unable to act the way he would act. the fact that batman survived only serves to illustrate that superman was fighting lord's control.
again, IT'S BATMAN.
Originally posted by Raoul
in the 90s, or now?one statement by mcduffie does not a precedent set.
and slade is not as fast as wonder woman in actual combat speed. slade keeping up with her or anyone on her or clark's level is pure PIS.
batman doesn't count. he regularly does shit no human could possibly do. its part of the character. it's also largely PIS, and doesn't apply on the forum.
So you're basically discrediting all of batman feats because you dont like it, thats crazy. How about this then, Batman possessed ALL of superman abilities and superman trained batman on how to use them and he mastered it BUT bats STILL got blitzed by nightwing (is nightwing a plot device character).
I'm not discussing supes combat speed with you because I think you're wrong and you think I'm wrong. You're going to show me all of this space flight stuff but we have a writer saying that supes can only go light speed in space. Then you just stated that you discredit mcduffie sayings but last month you post a scan from mcduffie showing supes flying at light in space. 😕
Slade isnt the only one who has kept up with wonder woman. Batman has, cheetah (no speed feats before her zoom upgrade even PROVING that she moves over low metas in the speed dept). Hell, normal amazons gave wonder woman good fights and they fight like mere brutes with skill.
Originally posted by Raoul
no. superman was under mental control and was unable to act the way he would act. the fact that batman survived only serves to illustrate that superman was fighting lord's control.again, IT'S BATMAN.
I dont want to discuss supes with you because you're going to end up getting mad, lets use wonder woman or martian manhunter for me and your discussions.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Who did he think he was fighting?I think Batman blantantly said Superman was slower.
If someone fight at light speed and gets a speed decrease to half of that, they should STILL be able to blitz batman in a millisecond even If they were in a different state before batman even got the chance to blink.
Originally posted by carver9
So you're basically discrediting all of batman feats because you dont like it, thats crazy. How about this then, Batman possessed ALL of superman abilities and superman trained batman on how to use them and he mastered it BUT bats STILL got blitzed by nightwing (is nightwing a plot device character).
you're twisting my words. i said nothing of the sort.
batman was a) unused to using kryptonian powers, and b) was also being mentally affected by the spell that gave him the powers.
I'm not discussing supes combat speed with you because I think you're wrong and you think I'm wrong. You're going to show me all of this space flight stuff but we have a writer saying that supes can only go light speed in space. Then you just stated that you discredit mcduffie sayings but last month you post a scan from mcduffie showing supes flying at light in space. 😕
post the scan where it's stated superman can only go lightspeed in space.
mcduffie's a hack, plain and simple. if i posted a scan by him, it was only to illustrate that even a hack like him could accept that superman can go ftl.
also, we're supposed to be talking about combat speed.
Slade isnt the only one who has kept up with wonder woman. Batman has, cheetah (no speed feats before her zoom upgrade even PROVING that she moves over low metas in the speed dept). Hell, normal amazons gave wonder woman good fights and they fight like mere brutes with skill.
batman keeps up with everyone. it's no indication of their speed relative to humans, it's their speed relative to batman. there's a difference. batman beat amazo for chrissakes.
cheetah is a wonder woman villain with impressive speed. she has feats, in that she was able to keep up with diana. zoom's amp put her on flash's level, nothing more. she was always fast.
normal amazons are insane. the fact that you called them mere brutes shows that you don't read about them. when lex luthor hired two amazons as bodyguards, they were able to hold off superman for a time.
Originally posted by carver9
I dont want to discuss supes with you because you're going to end up getting mad, lets use wonder woman or martian manhunter for me and your discussions.
😂
mad? you wish.
Originally posted by Raoul
no. superman was under mental control and was unable to act the way he would act. the fact that batman survived only serves to illustrate that superman was fighting lord's control.again, IT'S BATMAN.
Listen im actually on your side with this, but was there anything written in black or white or any other indication apart from Batman surviving that indicates Superman wasnt at his best?
Originally posted by carver9
If someone fight at light speed and gets a speed decrease to half of that, they should STILL be able to blitz batman in a millisecond even If they were in a different state before batman even got the chance to blink.
I dont care Batman said he was slower and hence thats why he survived.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Listen im actually on your side with this, but was there anything written in black or white or any other indication apart from Batman surviving that indicates Superman wasnt at his best?
umm, the fact that he was acting like some kind of mindless animal, which in itself is the opposite of how superman fights?
Originally posted by Raoul
you're twisting my words. i said nothing of the sort.batman was a) unused to using kryptonian powers, and b) was also being mentally affected by the spell that gave him the powers.
post the scan where it's stated superman can only go lightspeed in space.
mcduffie's a hack, plain and simple. if i posted a scan by him, it was only to illustrate that even a hack like him could accept that superman can go ftl.
also, we're supposed to be talking about combat speed.
batman keeps up with everyone. it's no indication of their speed relative to humans, it's their speed relative to batman. there's a difference. batman beat amazo for chrissakes.
cheetah is a wonder woman villain with impressive speed. she has feats, in that she was able to keep up with diana. zoom's amp put her on flash's level, nothing more. she was always fast.
normal amazons are insane. the fact that you called them mere brutes shows that you don't read about them. when lex luthor hired two amazons as bodyguards, they were able to hold off superman for a time.
😂
mad? you wish.
That still doesnt change the fact that the little training batman had with supes going by your standard should have prevented a blitz from nightwing.
I cant post a scan of it, it was an interview. It was said throughout the forum also after I brought it up. I think even darthgoober brought it up also. I give up on that though because this will be a forever argument between you and I until it comes out of supes own mouth that he cant go light speed.
How did batman beat amazo, did he outfight him because to my knowledge amazo was sent a couple of light years away.
Cheetah still doesnt have the speed feats showing that she's over even spiderman in the speed dept, spiderman feats outweighs hers by a huge gap.
I agree, normal amazon is insane, hell they held off doomsday clones before and fought h2h with supergirl. Thats not the point that I was getting at, they dont use any kind of impressive speed while fighting, they fight like mere brutes and fighting superman doesnt mean that they have superspeed because if thats the case, everyone in dcu has superspeed.
Originally posted by Raoul
umm, the fact that he was acting like some kind of mindless animal, which in itself is the opposite of how superman fights?
But who did supes think he was fighting when he fought batman because I seen nothing mindless about what he was doing. You do know that max had him seeing images the entire time right?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Listen im actually on your side with this, but was there anything written in black or white or any other indication apart from Batman surviving that indicates Superman wasnt at his best?I dont care Batman said he was slower and hence thats why he survived.
Again, how much slower because 1 percent of light speed should destroy bats.
Originally posted by carver9
That still doesnt change the fact that the little training batman had with supes going by your standard should have prevented a blitz from nightwing.I cant post a scan of it, it was an interview. It was said throughout the forum also after I brought it up. I think even darthgoober brought it up also. I give up on that though because this will be a forever argument between you and I until it comes out of supes own mouth that he cant go light speed.
How did batman beat amazo, did he outfight him because to my knowledge amazo was sent a couple of light years away.
Cheetah still doesnt have the speed feats showing that she's over even spiderman in the speed dept, spiderman feats outweighs hers by a huge gap.
I agree, normal amazon is insane, hell they held off doomsday clones before and fought h2h with supergirl. Thats not the point that I was getting at, they dont use any kind of impressive speed while fighting, they fight like mere brutes and fighting superman doesnt mean that they have superspeed because if thats the case, everyone in dcu has superspeed.
there's nothing to suggest nightwing couldn't have done it.
an interview isn't a comic panel.
batman and nightwing teaming up beat amazo in batman... 637.
cheetah keeps up with wonder woman. that in itself counts when she can do it consistently.
they use plenty of speed. they have to, to keep up with the people they're fighting. it isn't just superman.
Originally posted by carver9
But who did supes think he was fighting when he fought batman because I seen nothing mindless about what he was doing. You do know that max had him seeing images the entire time right?
nothing mindless? are you kidding?
Originally posted by carver9
You do know that max had him seeing images the entire time right?
So wait Superman was hallucinating as well? facepalm
Originally posted by carver9
Again, how much slower because 1 percent of light speed should destroy bats.
I dont know what on earth you're talking about Batman didnt beat Superman under normal conditions, its that simple. Superman was handicapped.
Originally posted by Raoul
don't worry, plenty of people will disagree with me lol...
Got scans by any chance? If its too much bother dont worry about it.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So wait Superman was hallucinating as well? facepalmI dont know what on earth you're talking about Batman didnt beat Superman under normal conditions, its that simple. Superman was handicapped.
Got scans by any chance? If its too much bother dont worry about it.
don't have the scans to hand, but basically, superman was made to see brainiac make superman cause the deaths of lois, jimmy, perry and lana, sending him over the edge big time.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So wait Superman was hallucinating as well? facepalmI dont know what on earth you're talking about Batman didnt beat Superman under normal conditions, its that simple. Superman was handicapped.
Got scans by any chance? If its too much bother dont worry about it.
Its just one scan that was taken through a video camera showing bats holding supes off for a brief time using a chair. Nothing special about it.
Superman was in his right mind the entire time, he went on a rage due to the images max was putting in his head (example, seeing doomsday killing lois and supes seeing wonder woman as doomsday trying to kill her).
Batman cant beat supes, thats not the debate BUT batman has kept up with supes on many of occasions but raoul said dont use bats so I'm not bring that up any more.
Originally posted by Raoul
there's nothing to suggest nightwing couldn't have done it.an interview isn't a comic panel.
batman and nightwing teaming up beat amazo in batman... 637.
cheetah keeps up with wonder woman. that in itself counts when she can do it consistently.
they use plenty of speed. they have to, to keep up with the people they're fighting. it isn't just superman.
nothing mindless? are you kidding?
By your logic, yes its plenty showing that nightwing shouldnt have done it, bats had supes powers and supes trained him on how to use it.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hey....PIS...Shiva....Shiva beating a guy faster than Supes.... 😐
yeah absolutely...
The only problem is whether or not Superman was referencing his speed up to a point.. I hardly think he was using his max there because when he DOES use his max it's an entirely different situation all together.