Originally posted by WorldWarHulk
What about Thor?
Apoc should lose to him...
I don't think I have ever straight out said that Apoc beats Thor. Although I usually just (and in any other discussion) try at least to give Apoc somewhat of a relative chance of accomplishing a winning.
Problem with Thor, is that his power always flux for me.
Sometimes he's portrayed as this god-like character who wrecks Herald-level people, and sometimes he's just this powerful guy who can challenge the Hulk in strength and wields a nifty hammer.
Surfer ftw.
or maybe Hulk if he gets sufficiently enraged.
Surfer should be the most durable of the lot of them, initially. he takes black holes and supernova as part of his daily routine, what are any of them going to dish out that'll rattle his cage?
Hulk simply has the ability (with a fair degree of realistic effort) to totally eclipse everybody's physical powers.
he should definitely be able to come with a superman speedblitz, given the infinite well of energies that pour into him and augment him. his durability, regeneration/healing, speed, agility and strength are all exponentially increased as a result of his anger/rage/stress.
Superspeed and flight only count for so much, at the end of the day, it's a confined space and Hulk WILL tag Superman several times, as a result. just one connection of sufficient strength would daze and confuse Superman.
Thor similarly will be smacking the shit out of Supes and Surfer, no matter how fast they are, because there won't be much room to maneuver.
my betting:
Surfer - favourite. SPEED, durability, stamina, strength, reflexes.
Hulk - 2nd. STRENGTH, durability, stamina
Superman - 3rd. strength (not as strong as an enraged hulk, but on Surfer/Thor levels), speed (2nd fastest char here), durability (3rd here) and reflexes (2nd to Surfer)
Thor - durability, strength, reflexes, warrior skills, hammer - wide attack (swing the damned thing)
Originally posted by Adult Swim Guy
How do me know its a small space to fight?
for these combatants that's not even enough space to breathe. Superman and Surfer would get no respite from Thor and Hulk, even though the latter are far slower in speed than them. Hulk easily leaps at thousands of miles an hour (if not far far far faster - but since I know of no time frame for the thousands of miles he leaps, I'll take a conservative guess) and Thor is even faster...
no chance of Superman working up momentum for some of his more 'comical' (excuse the pun) punches.
It will come down to Superman vs Hulk.
Superman has the best flight and speed advantage.
Hulk has the best strength advantage.
If Superman does not KO Hulk right away, Hulk's frustration will keep amping him beyond anybody's ability to do anything to him.
(Surfer is hampered by his relative lack of h2h skills, though he probably walks away with the fewest bruises 😛 ).
I dont think there is any character traits on the side of thor and surfer that has them outlasting hulk and supes in a purely physical bout. Without his cosmic powers, the only thing surfer has is his surf board. His lack of physical strength in a contest of physical strength seems to make his presence pointless. Unless of course he sides with another fighter for strategy.
If thor could keep ahold of his hammer, he may have a chance, but the odds of that are greatly against him.
I always thought that superman would outlast Hulk in a battle. Supes is the fastest one out of the bunch and the second strongest if not ultimately the first.I am also taking the liberty of saying that superman gets the edge in endurance and stamina easily
i give it to superman, after a few days of savage fighting agaisnt thor and hulk.
I think Surfer's strength must be immense, just purely on account of the velocities he travels at and his durability.
I honestly cannot see Superman being either as strong as Hulk or as durable. Hulk is the epitome of overcoming physical strength. simply impossible for another character to overpower him for any length of time. KO him quickly, sure. but in this slugfest, the melee aspect of it is naturally going to favour The Hulk as combatants will be too busy to concentrate their firepower on any single fighter.
Surfer's thousands of times faster than Superman and far more durable too... so I'd always put him in with a greater shot at winning it.
also, I saw The Surfer (in a weakened state) beat up Hulk with some skill... so I wouldn't discount The Surfer having enough h2h prowess to get the job done.
Originally posted by janus77
I think Surfer's strength must be immense, just purely on account of the velocities he travels at and his durability.I honestly cannot see Superman being either as strong as Hulk or as durable. Hulk is the epitome of overcoming physical strength. simply impossible for another character to overpower him for any length of time. KO him quickly, sure. but in this slugfest, the melee aspect of it is naturally going to favour The Hulk as combatants will be too busy to concentrate their firepower on any single fighter.
Surfer's thousands of times faster than Superman and far more durable too... so I'd always put him in with a greater shot at winning it.
also, I saw The Surfer (in a weakened state) beat up Hulk with some skill... so I wouldn't discount The Surfer having enough h2h prowess to get the job done.
you make some great points, but im just going off of feats that i have personally read in the comics. I have never seen surfer do anything physically noteworthy. As for his speed,i dont think anyone can argue that supes is faster than surfer in a straight shot. However, in closed combat hand to hand fighting, i think supes is naturally the fastest one of the four. I have never seen surfer virtually teleport behind someone. I was under the assumption he needed to gain mommentum to express his speed, where as superman doesnt.
Dismissing the cheap doomsday death thing.
I am still not sold on the thought that Hulk posses more endurance than Superman. One's psychological state of mind can have great influences over physical state of being. Being the gaurdian of Earth, Superman not only endures some of the most powerful beings in dc's comicverse he is also constantly pressured and stressed with defending Earth. Being broken and battered superman always seems to be able to summon reserve energy appearing to make him stronger than before he was broken and on the verge of submission. Doomsday being an exception, but i dont speak of that cheap comic ploy
Originally posted by masterbruce
Superman - Thor - Hulk - Silver Surfer: Pure Physical Slugfest Battle Royale!Battle takes place in an enclosed adamantium stadium. No BFR allowed.
Pure physical battle, no non-physical powers allowed (ie. energy attacks). However, they have their physical abilities (ie. superspeed, fflight, etc.)
No amping of attributes is allowed, other than Hulk's ability to get stronger with anger.
Everyone is fully rested and in peak form. Bloodlust on.
Who stands at the end of this battle?
I don't believe Supes wins this simply due to the fact he is in an enclosed Adamantium dome, he cannot recharge himself against these guys.
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
you make some great points, but im just going off of feats that i have personally read in the comics. I have never seen surfer do anything physically noteworthy. As for his speed,i dont think anyone can argue that supes is faster than surfer in a straight shot. However, in closed combat hand to hand fighting, i think supes is naturally the fastest one of the four. I have never seen surfer virtually teleport behind someone. I was under the assumption he needed to gain mommentum to express his speed, where as superman doesnt.Dismissing the cheap doomsday death thing.
I am still not sold on the thought that Hulk posses more endurance than Superman. One's psychological state of mind can have great influences over physical state of being. Being the gaurdian of Earth, Superman not only endures some of the most powerful beings in dc's comicverse he is also constantly pressured and stressed with defending Earth. Being broken and battered superman always seems to be able to summon reserve energy appearing to make him stronger than before he was broken and on the verge of submission. Doomsday being an exception, but i dont speak of that cheap comic ploy
the reason I generally tend to give Hulk the edge on strength and durability is that, all bias aside (and he is a pretty iconic character) Hulk is basically "Incredible", he stretches credulity to the maximum as he pulls out reserves of strength and physical ability that pay no heed to the laws of physics or to the reputations of characters.
Superman most definitely has that 'aura' (if you will) about him too, for DC.
it's a tricky thing trying to rationalise or reason comic characters, even when they're from the same company - hence the great deal of spite towards "Hulk fanboys" and conversely the great deal of ludicrous "Hulk smash" responses to Vs threads - nevermind across comic companies and "philosophies" (if that's not too grandious a term to apply to these things).
The Surfer, as far as I'm aware, has instantaneous access to billions of times the speed of light. Superman too, I'm sure, has instantaneous access to his speed. it's just that Surfer is written to be a more ... umm, 'psychological' (for want of a better word), he's more introspective, isolated... the battles are usually peripheral to the alienated bald silver dude... so his strength feats are greatly limited ... it wouldn't make sense for Surfer to be pulling planets etc... he'd look too impressive (like Superman does) and it would make it hard to relate to his alienation and "heartache"... gosh he does sound like a character for the "emo generation" 😐 (lol).
anyway... longstory short... Superman's strength, as demonstrated in comics, makes Surfer look limp. Surfer's natural habitat (the cosmos) is actually phenomenally testing but not show-y... you have to think about the pressures in space and the awesome durability and strength feat that it is to merely travel through and escape supernova etc ...
The reason for me plumping for the Hulk (as my 2nd bet) is purely because he grows in strength/durability/stamina/speed/healing (and regeneration) exponentially... also, to be honest, a lot of the people to dislike Hulk, make me feel like "sticking up" for the character 😂
anyway... you're view's valid and decent too, thanks for being willing to put it across reasonably 🙂
Superman ftw. I don't see how so many are saying that Hulk would only need to get slightly angry to match Superman's strength level. Hulk would need weeks worth of anger to come close to Superman's level. Even when extremely angry, the Hulk still doesn't have any strength feats that compare to Superman's.
Again, this is a bloodlusted Superman...Supes will not be pulling punches in this fight. Superman KILLED Doomsday physically when he stopped pulling punches....and Hulk is NO Doomsday.
I know I go back to pre-crisis days when Superman can literally juggle planets and all...sneeze galaxies away, etc....that's how I still imagine Superman....no one in this fight should be able to beat him physically...and...imho.....Superman far outshines any of them in the strength department...that's just how DC makes their characters.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So you would give Supes the win against anything less that an good skyfather?
from a physical..hand to hand perspective...yes. I know Superman isn't gonna take a majority from Surfer with the PC...i know that....but, going on strength alone...and the force of his punches(non pulled)....no one in this battle really competes with that.
In Marvel, the only one's that I see competing with a bloodlusted Supes on a physical level are guys like Kurse, Champion, Thanos, Gladiator at full confidence....guys like that.
In DC....there are team wreckers like Amazo, Despero, and Validus....but, it is hard to find a counterpart to guys like that in Marvel....really, all you have is Thanos, that I can think of right now, that wrecks teams like that.