Darthgoober's Amalgam Tourney discussion thread

Originally posted by King Kandy
... How am I doing? I think I'm holding my own...

Asking for opinions is a sign of weakness. Give me 20 push-ups!

😠

...seriously though, lots of people will tell you you're doing great (and maybe you are...I haven't read most of it yet) but the judges' decisions are all that matter.

For example: Scoob and I were mildly worried last time when everyone was telling MM/Souja how great they were doing against us in round 1. Then we swept the judges. They really were debating well though, just didn't quite have enough.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
For example: Scoob and I were mildly worried last time when everyone was telling MM/Souja how great they were doing against us in round 1. Then we swept the judges. They really were debating well though, just didn't quite have enough.

Digi's being diplomatic ... we uberpwnerized their sorry ass team

😎

jk

😛

Originally posted by Scoobless
So you're saying non canon scans shouldn't be allowed ... but then go on to say it's unfair that he was caught using scans that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place?

It should either be a rule or it shouldn't, if someone breaks a rule it can effect the whole tourney, not just their match.

Because of this, any rule that is broken should be brought up in this thread. It's possible that any person breaking a rule doesn't realise they are doing so and it's just as possible that the person they are facing doesn't realise they are either.

It's happened a few times already, Kandy didn't realise he couldn't mist other people and Leo didn't realise he couldn't use his time manip powers on others.

If those who notice these things don't say anything then it's unfair to the rule breaker's opponent.

Nah Scoobs, you've misinterpreted what I meant homie.

I believe it's perfectly fair that B-Dub was caught using a non-canon scan (he should be caught for a lot more stuff, but that's another conversation), I just think that it should have been King Kandy that caught him rather than you.

Kandy's ability to distinguish whether a feat is admissable or not falls within his debating responsibilities. It's like a lawyer having to be knowledgable in all facets of a case and all the pertaining laws and statutes. If the lawyer doesn't present the argument the judge can't consider it. Someone in the gallery can't just stand up and begin deliberating on their behalf.

This isn't a court and no-one here has had to study x amounts of comics to be allowed to debate ... there's no way we've all read every title.

If Kandy has never read or heard of Marvel Adventures (or any other alternate universe comic) then he shouldn't have to take a hit because of that.

I only barely recognised that single scan as non-canon myself because Storm was wearing Ms Marvel's costume.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if I see anyone breaking any of the rules then I'm going to bring it up and I think others should do the same ... there's no one here to hold us to the rules other than ourselves.

Originally posted by Scoobless
This isn't a court and no-one here has had to study x amounts of comics to be allowed to debate ... there's no way we've all read every title.

If Kandy has never read or heard of Marvel Adventures (or any other alternate universe comic) then he shouldn't have to take a hit because of that.

I only barely recognised that single scan as non-canon myself because Storm was wearing Ms Marvel's costume.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if I see anyone breaking any of the rules then I'm going to bring it up and I think others should do the same ... there's no one here to hold us to the rules other than ourselves.

Basicly the rest of us need to be a sort of tribunal for catching breaches of Tourney rules but nothing else.

Originally posted by Scoobless
This isn't a court and no-one here has had to study x amounts of comics to be allowed to debate ... there's no way we've all read every title.

If Kandy has never read or heard of Marvel Adventures (or any other alternate universe comic) then he shouldn't have to take a hit because of that.

I only barely recognised that single scan as non-canon myself because Storm was wearing Ms Marvel's costume.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if I see anyone breaking any of the rules then I'm going to bring it up and I think others should do the same ... there's no one here to hold us to the rules other than ourselves.

that's pretty fair and well said, scoob. i see your point ill, but like scoob says -- i don't think in this format (an honour system) that just because someone in a battle doesn't recognize a non-canon scan, that that person should be punished for it.

meh, no one else in the tournament seems to have an opinion on it, so maybe scoob and i are wrong, but that's the way i see it too.

as for my own time mnaip scan i 'slipped' in. i KNEW i would be busted for it. if you ask goob, he'll tell you [b[I[/b] pm'd him about it BEFORE anyone else. i fully understood it would be banned.

i was just going for intimidation against the rookie. 😄

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Basicly the rest of us need to be a sort of tribunal for catching breaches of Tourney rules but nothing else.

👆

Right! So if anyone wants to try to tell me Spider-Man is Protestant, they'll be shot down hard by.....um...scans of him....not being Protestant??

😮

Actually, I'll agree with Scoob. Most of us have probably done it at one point whether we know it or not (I think I accidentally used a non-canon scan for Warlock last tourney) but the debate should be determined by the strength of the strategy, teams, and debate....not by things that shouldn't influence it like non-canon sources.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
(I think I accidentally used a non-canon scan for Warlock last tourney)

Really?

😂

Which one? (or was it more than one?)

Originally posted by Scoobless
Really?

😂

Which one? (or was it more than one?)

Nothing major. There was an energy shield I had him put up in prep once or twice and an omni-directional energy blast that I used....which I later found out wasn't Warlock at all. Cool stuff, but not strategy-ruining if we didn't have it. The Hive people that made Warlock created a new "model", and it looked almost exactly like him (right down to a gem-looking thing on his forehead that they used to control him).

Then later in the mini-series we find out that was just a dream sequence designed to "train" the real Warlock that the Hive was creating. So they weren't even valid feats for that character.

😂

I had bought part of the series from my comic shop, but not the issues where it reveals all of that, since I never found them until after the tourney.

I remember that series. That Warlocks powers are NOTHING like the originals.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I remember that series. That Warlocks powers are NOTHING like the originals.

Occasionally similar, but yeah they were different. But I only had 1-2 issue at the time so it was hard to tell, especially when he looked so similar. I thought it was a flashback to his early years or something.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Nah Scoobs, you've misinterpreted what I meant homie.

I believe it's perfectly fair that B-Dub was caught using a non-canon scan (he should be caught for a lot more stuff, but that's another conversation), I just think that it should have been King Kandy that caught him rather than you.

Kandy's ability to distinguish whether a feat is admissable or not falls within his debating responsibilities. It's like a lawyer having to be knowledgable in all facets of a case and all the pertaining laws and statutes. If the lawyer doesn't present the argument the judge can't consider it. Someone in the gallery can't just stand up and begin deliberating on their behalf.

If he's just pointing out tourney rule breach, I think that should be allowed, or taken to a judge and they can do it.

I still have to respectfully disagree with the 3 of you. Pointing out a rule violation is different than pointing out a false claim. Using a non-canon example in your argument is simply a misrepresentation and it should be your opponent's responsibility to point that out, not some random poster or another combatant in the same tournament that is not involved in that particular match. Hell, in my opinion it even would have been better to simply PM Kandy directly rather than stating it yourself out in the open. It's just bad form for other combatants to get involved in other matches.

So whereas as it's good that it's been brought to light that B-Dub can't use that feat, it should have been King Kandy that pointed out it was non canon. I don't think there should be 3rd parties involvement in the arguments, that's all.

It doesn't matter who points out any violations, the important thing is that they are pointed out.

Everyone involved in the tourney agreed to the rules and it is all of our responsibility to see that they are followed.

Originally posted by illadelph12

So whereas as it's good that it's been brought to light that B-Dub can't use that feat, it should have been King Kandy that pointed out it was non canon. I don't think there should be 3rd parties involvement in the arguments, that's all.

well, seeing as how there are '3rd party's' involved in just about every aspect of this tourney here, not just judging. I think it's safe to assume any person's knowledge is/ and should be responsible for bringing it to the discussion/forefront for the competitors/matches.

nah - not everyone has read the exact same comics, nor the exact amount, or much less seen or heard about the same scans. I think the more info out in the open, the better... it's a safety precaution for not having people bitching in later rounds too.

Man...

Ok.

Let me put it in more common terms then. You are all obviously missing my point:

I'm not talking about rule violations. I'm talking about someone misrepresenting their case. If someone proposes a course of attack that's against the rules or over the limits, I'm all for it being pointed out and banned if necessary.

However:

If someone makes a claim that's within the rules but they're basing it on bad or invalid information, I believe it's up to that poster's opponent to point out their mistake, not just anyone who happens to be observing, and especially not another combatant participating in the same tournament. That could easily be misconstrued into Participant A trying to assist Participant B in defeating Participant C so that Participant A won't have to face Participant C themselves in a future round.

Also, by doing that you're essentially debating for the combatant. In the interest of fairness, it should have been Kandy that pointed out the feat was invalid, or at least it could have been handled in a manner in which Kandy was notified in the background via PMs.

I know you all may disagree, but logic is on my side.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Right! So if anyone wants to try to tell me Spider-Man is Protestant, they'll be shot down hard by.....um...scans of him....not being Protestant??

😮

...Spider-Man IS protestant. 😐
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/SpiderMan.html

😛

Originally posted by illadelph12
Man...

Ok.

Let me put it in more common terms then. You are all obviously missing my point:

I'm not talking about rule violations. I'm talking about someone misrepresenting their case. If someone proposes a course of attack that's against the rules or over the limits, I'm all for it being pointed out and banned if necessary.

However:

If someone makes a claim that's within the rules but they're basing it on bad or invalid information, I believe it's up to that poster's opponent to point out their mistake, not just anyone who happens to be observing, and especially not another combatant participating in the same tournament. That could easily be misconstrued into Participant A trying to assist Participant B in defeating Participant C so that Participant A won't have to face Participant C themselves in a future round.

Also, by doing that you're essentially debating for the combatant. In the interest of fairness, it should have been Kandy that pointed out the feat was invalid, or at least it could have been handled in a manner in which Kandy was notified in the background via PMs.

I know you all may disagree, but logic is on my side.

ill, PRETEND for a moment, bw (or ANYONE) KNEW the scan was non-canon and STILL decided to use it, counting on the fact that kk wouldn't know and it really helped prove their case. the person using the scan is willfully commiting a rule violation. shouldn't that be pointed out?

it may well have been an accidental scan, but what if someone else was trying to be slick? we can't know for sure, so isn't it better to point it out?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Man...

Ok.

Let me put it in more common terms then. You are all obviously missing my point:

I'm not talking about rule violations. I'm talking about someone misrepresenting their case. If someone proposes a course of attack that's against the rules or over the limits, I'm all for it being pointed out and banned if necessary.

However:

If someone makes a claim that's within the rules but they're basing it on bad or invalid information, I believe it's up to that poster's opponent to point out their mistake, not just anyone who happens to be observing, and especially not another combatant participating in the same tournament. That could easily be misconstrued into Participant A trying to assist Participant B in defeating Participant C so that Participant A won't have to face Participant C themselves in a future round.

Also, by doing that you're essentially debating for the combatant. In the interest of fairness, it should have been Kandy that pointed out the feat was invalid, or at least it could have been handled in a manner in which Kandy was notified in the background via PMs.

I know you all may disagree, but logic is on my side.

This isn't a court.

The evidence here is presented in a public forum. That means the rest of us have a responsibility to make sure that the evidence is in fact real since obscure non-canon sources are almost impossible for a contestant to see.

Each person in the Tourney should not be concerned with the validity of the evidence being used since the actually match is meant to be his/her focus. Hence, logic would dictate that any member of the public who sees a use of non-canon material should bring it up here.