ANH Obi-Wan vs. ANH Darth Vader

Originally posted by Advent
snip

This is indeed all true, and so your many excellent reasons have proven to me conclusively the outcome of the fight.

It is possible that Obi-Wan would take the chance and go out into the lava anyway; it would be near suicide, but he doesn't have much else to lose at this point. Vader's flexibility has decreased since their previous fight on Mustafar, and there's the chance, though extremely remote, that he could bring Vader down with him, at least if Vader actually came out with him instead of simply throwing things at him with the Force. However, since the most likely good outcome here is both opponents dying, it isn't enough to count as a legitimate victory, even if it was to happen (and that's extremely remote, as it relies entirely on Vader deliberately and purposefully being an idiot and walking into undue danger).

So it would seem that my original judgement was indeed flawed, and that Vader would win, and decisively as well.

Kudos!

Wow, we finally get a new member that isn't lacking intelligence for once, lol. Thank Buddha. You should get involved in some other threads.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Hmm, well I'd put Vader slightly above Ben overall, Ben could maybe do it on Mustafar - he'd be betetr at avoiding falling rocks and lava that tries to fall on him and such, as Vader can't do acrobatics and is slower in his suit. If Ben jumps onto an object floating in the river, and Vader tries to follow him, he *might* not make it. Definitely a close match-up, though.

Only this time, Vader has grown in force ability and knowledge, isn't mentally reduced by his hatred, and is a master at using the environment to his advantage. Vader would look at Old Ben disapprovingly and merely flip over whatever he is standing on.

Or Kenobi can lose in a semi-prolonged duel.

Or if Ben did try to lava surf again, Vader could simply cause a wave of lava to consume Ben.

Then why Vader don't use force crush?

Because, he was mocking him. He wanted to do it blade to blade. If he had just blasted forth with fire and brimstone, crushing him into a pulpy mass, that's not showing him his lesson, he was talking down to him.

If he had done that it would have been like... like... http://youtube.com/watch?v=3vbtpr6XWy4

No, I mean in this fight. The author said they can use whatever they have.

Jesus Christ man, let go of the fcuking force crush move from the other thread. Everytime you bring it up in you sarcastic adolescent demeanor, you give everyone more and more reason to believe you're a 12 year old with an inferiority complex. Drop it. You sound stupid.

What's wrong with that? Vader can't use crush in this fight?

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Only this time, Vader has grown in force ability and knowledge, isn't mentally reduced by his hatred, and is a master at using the environment to his advantage. Vader would look at Old Ben disapprovingly and merely flip over whatever he is standing on.

Or Kenobi can lose in a semi-prolonged duel.

In a duel I would give it to Vader, too, but he does have the disadvantage of being less acrobatic so he might not be able to jump around above the lava quite as easily as Ben. Which could be bad for him.

Originally posted by vader11
What's wrong with that? Vader can't use crush in this fight?

Its not that. Its that ever since Kadesh said that Vader's crush is instant, you've said it whenever Vader is mentioned and although in text, the underlying sarcasm is all too evident. It's like if you find out your girlfriend gave a lot of dudes head before you got together, anytime you might be arguing or around a guy, you might say, 'Well why don't you just give him head?" Not saying it to be serious, but saying it to be a dick. Same thing here.

OK. But Vader still win this fight.

Originally posted by darthsith19
But if Ben jumps onto the lava, Vader will still try to follow him, otherwise neither of them could win, and he *might* not make it. And if Vader tried to Force Push Kenobi off whatever he was standing on, they'd both die, as Kenobi could try and block it and they'd both end up flying back (like in the Mustafar Control room in ROTS).

In a duel I would give it to Vader, too, but he does have the disadvantage of being less acrobatic so he might not be able to jump around above the lava quite as easily as Ben. Which could be bad for him.

Please show me when ANH Ben has shown the slightest ability to be acrobatic. He could barely walk through the dunes without almost stumbling and falling on his face.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Please show me when ANH Ben has shown the slightest ability to be acrobatic. He could barely walk through the dunes without almost stumbling and falling on his face.

In the movie, Vader didn't seem like slower than Ben.

Originally posted by vader11
In the movie, Vader didn't seem like slower than Ben.

Originally posted by darthsith19
He was walking fine through the desert. Kenobi likely isn't as acrobatic as he used to be, but he is still likely more acrobatic than a guy who has mechanical legs.

Didn't GG have mechanical legs? Hmm...

And no, when he first walked up on Luke, he was kind of stumbling. And one part in a cantina scene doesn't trump everything else we see in the movie.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Please show me when ANH Ben has shown the slightest ability to be acrobatic. He could barely walk through the dunes without almost stumbling and falling on his face.

Look at Yoda when he moves around with his walking stick....
Then look at Yoda fighting...

Really. Obviously older force users or such that suffered some physical damage (like Vader) do need the force to aid their movements more than younger once. Still. Look at Dooku in the PT. He's in his 80s and still far away from looking "old" during combat. I don't see, why Obi-Wan with 60 or Vader being in his 40s should be less acrobatic than Dooku. In fact there are serveral sources which do show Vader performing some rather artistic movements even when he's in his suit and I'm sure Obi-Wan would also be able to kick some major ass in that department.

Back to the topic:
ANH Vader would destroy ANH Obi-Wan. As far as I remember Obi-Wan even thinks himself that he can't defeat Vader (ANH novelization) and hence he basically "gives up" to ensure that Luke and his friends are able to escape. You just have to think about the statement of Lucas that Vader, even in his suit, is still 80 % as powerful as Sidious himself. Had Vader tried to kill Obi-Wan with the force in ANH the fight would have been far shorter imho.

Making your yearly visit to KMC, Nai?

Vader would win, he was certainly more powerful in ANH, and its not like Ben Kenobi seemed that agile anyway.