Evil is a dumb word and I don't use it because it is too easy to twist. I personally think it is wrong.
It is only a bad moral outlook if you were told it was a bad moral outlook.
It is not x or y. It is more complicated because we do not all live the same experiences and are not taught the same thing.
Originally posted by chithappens
Evil is a dumb word and I don't use it because it is too easy to twist. I personally think it is wrong.It is only a bad moral outlook if you were told it was a bad moral outlook.
It is not x or y. It is more complicated because we do not all live the same experiences and are not taught the same thing.
yeah, right. we'll just vacation you to a real flesh eating cannibalistic society that doesn't speak the same language you do, and see if "not knowing" x or y will be a problem for you, after all, if they don't have a definitive line for evil and cannibalism, your thigh may end up tasting just like chicken, and according to your philosophy, why would we interfere, "evil is a dumb word" (those are your words).
ok
I agree with that for the most part. I guess I should point out that in judging people's actions as wrong, my solution isn't at all related to punishment or whatever.
True, the only reason I think that abusing human right's is evil is because I believe that human rights are important. And I guess in an absolute objective analysis, that is no more "true" than what anyone else believes.
But that kind of academic abstraction is compleatly useless when dealing with real world problems. As a nation, believing that any ideology or action another nation takes is ok simply because we don't have the right to judge them is ridiculous.
If you want to make the slippery slope argument, fine, if the war on terror may have been started through condemnation of other people's belief's (mind you, beliefs that do not distinguish between civilian or soldier) then world war 2 was started by this isolationist mentality you are promoting.
And to answer this before it comes up, I believe in morality but I sum it up simply as "respect the person next to you." You respect one as you would yourself and it is does become universal which would equate to treating women with respect.
Everyone has some sort of doctrine that mentions that but don't really follow it. All the other stuff is just some jargon of a certain culture when morality is simply respecting others.
Originally posted by inimalist
okI agree with that for the most part. I guess I should point out that in judging people's actions as wrong, my solution isn't at all related to punishment or whatever.
True, the only reason I think that abusing human right's is evil is because I believe that human rights are important. And I guess in an absolute objective analysis, that is no more "true" than what anyone else believes.
But that kind of academic abstraction is compleatly useless when dealing with real world problems. As a nation, believing that any ideology or action another nation takes is ok simply because we don't have the right to judge them is ridiculous.
If you want to make the slippery slope argument, fine, if the war on terror may have been started through condemnation of other people's belief's (mind you, beliefs that do not distinguish between civilian or soldier) then world war 2 was started by this isolationist mentality you are promoting.
I agree with you there. World War II began because of the Versailles Treaty which pretty much screwed certain countries. It was not a treaty meant to uphold peace but one which promoted revenge. I know a lot about the rising of the 3rd Reich but am too lazy to get detailed. The people were looking for retribution because they felt mistreated. The isolationist mentality began with the Versailles Treaty. Hitler just took advantage of people being pissed. He gave them what they wanted and they didn't question much until it got pretty far (Machiavellian principles).
I just think that people of different nations need to come to each other with an understanding that they are just people like everyone else. The problems arise when one seems to be accusatory in tone when disagreements come up.
What you demonstrated was international relations but one must keep in mind that all exchanges between different nations are purely utilitarian: "What can thou do for me?" rather than, "How can we all help one another?"
Originally posted by chithappens
I just think that people of different nations need to come to each other with an understanding that they are just people like everyone else. The problems arise when one seems to be accusatory in tone when disagreements come up.
and then we can hold hands and sing under the rainbow
it would be nice if all people acted rationally toward one another, they don't.
Also, there is a reason to speak accusitorily toward people who are violating other's human rights. I have no problem telling people who are abusing others to stop it.
Originally posted by chithappens
What you demonstrated was international relations but one must keep in mind that all exchanges between different nations are purely utilitarian: "What can thou do for me?" rather than, "How can we all help one another?"
The UN, Doctors without Borders and many other organizations would disagree with you on that.
Not to mention both the anti-globalizational and anti-war movements, and the mass generosity around the world when major disasters and trajedy strike.
You seem to be promoting this image of yourself as a learned and read individual, knowledgeable in all things cultural, but these arguments are quite naive.
Relativism is fine, keep it in whatever ivory tower you think you live in. You cannot solve real world problems by simply saying "Thats just how they feel"
Would you be willing to extend this same generosity toward neo nazis and the KKK? are white lynch mobs cool by you? Like, be anti-war and anti bush, but be smart about it.
Originally posted by inimalist
and then we can hold hands and sing under the rainbowit would be nice if all people acted rationally toward one another, they don't.
Also, there is a reason to speak accusitorily toward people who are violating other's human rights. I have no problem telling people who are abusing others to stop it.
The UN, Doctors without Borders and many other organizations would disagree with you on that.
Not to mention both the anti-globalizational and anti-war movements, and the mass generosity around the world when major disasters and trajedy strike.
You seem to be promoting this image of yourself as a learned and read individual, knowledgeable in all things cultural, but these arguments are quite naive.
Relativism is fine, keep it in whatever ivory tower you think you live in. You cannot solve real world problems by simply saying "Thats just how they feel"
Would you be willing to extend this same generosity toward neo nazis and the KKK? are white lynch mobs cool by you? Like, be anti-war and anti bush, but be smart about it.
You're comparing Neo Nazi's and the KKK to people who are against a war??
Originally posted by Fishy
You're comparing Neo Nazi's and the KKK to people who are against a war??
no, im assuming that his cultural relativism is a by-product of hating Bush.
I am only doing this because the vast majority of people who make the arguments he does come at the issue of culture from that angle.
If he is a pro war republican I will take it back
to be honest, I am fairly anti-war personally and not a member of the KKK
Would you be willing to extend this same generosity toward neo nazis and the KKK? are white lynch mobs cool by you? Like, be anti-war and anti bush, but be smart about it. [/B]
(mocking) according to him, there is no such thing as evil, so the klan had a couple of picnics and BBQs, so what someone in pakistan kills off their girls, so what?
Originally posted by inimalist
no, im assuming that his cultural relativism is a by-product of hating Bush.I am only doing this because the vast majority of people who make the arguments he does come at the issue of culture from that angle.
If he is a pro war republican I will take it back
to be honest, I am fairly anti-war personally and not a member of the KKK
That's an incredibly strange assumption...
How does he have to be pro war to think that relativism is in fact true? And that some people would not consider what happened to that girl or her family wrong?
And what if he is a pro war democrat? Or an anti war bush loving republican? If those exists....
Originally posted by Fishy
That's an incredibly strange assumption...How does he have to be pro war to think that relativism is in fact true? And that some people would not consider what happened to that girl or her family wrong?
And what if he is a pro war democrat? Or an anti war bush loving republican? If those exists....
jesus christ
Originally posted by inimalistWould you be willing to extend this same generosity toward neo Nazis and the KKK? are white lynch mobs cool by you? Like, be anti-war and anti bush, but be smart about it.
Neo Nazis and KKK is a stretch for a comparison but I get what you mean.
All of these fall under the cultural ideals of the West. Under those moral understandings it is wrong. People of another culture will judge and do so under different understandings of the certain intensity of a wrong. With this in mind, there are different understandings of what is right or wrong. Everyone does not have the same idea of what these self promoted universal ideas of right or wrong.
Lynch mobs have no problem hanging black people. It is their good. I don't say they are cool and I don't mind it. That's just what they do and what they think. People can say whatever they want to them about how evil it is and they hold to what they believe. The focal point is what culture is doing the judging and what the mindset is. Lynch mobs are wrong in a democratic society and not acceptable (at least in the ones of today). I could write an essay on this but frankly I am too lazy to do so.
I do not endorse it but the words good and evil are just used to mess with people's heads.
I never said that nations DO or EVER WILL try to understand one another. But all the diplomacy is a facade. That was my point for the start.
Oh and if you notice all those organizations such as the UN are in place, and that's good but they don't control a damn thing in terms of the actions of a nation. Countries receive sanctions all the time and continue what they were doing. Bush used it like this, "diplomacy was attempted and they didn't comply so we invaded." Those organizations are in good intention but they are without power so they are useless. In implementation, oh excuse me the "real world", they do nothing.
I am not trying to say I know everything, but you are making assumptions about me without asking which is cute, it really is.
Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
(mocking) according to him, there is no such thing as evil, so the klan had a couple of picnics and BBQs, so what someone in pakistan kills off their girls, so what?
Ok so I guess you are going to go help all the women of Pakistan by personally going there and changing the paradigms of all inhabitants?
Originally posted by chithappens
Neo Nazis and KKK is a stretch for a comparison but I get what you mean.
How is it a stretch? Please be very specific.
Originally posted by chithappens
All of these fall under the cultural ideals of the West. Under those moral understandings it is wrong. People of another culture will judge and do so under different understandings of the certain intensity of a wrong. With this in mind, there are different understandings of what is right or wrong. Everyone does not have the same idea of what these self promoted universal ideas of right or wrong.
Absolutly. And as I have said, that is a wonderful little academic abstraction that falls nicely in the existentialist/postmodern realitivity camp.
However, in practice, that ideal HAS TO let people who want to hurt eachother do it.
Maybe I'm being ethnocentric, but oppression is a bad thing, regardless of the reason.
Maybe you should look at WHY the west has established human rights, about the origins of restrictions on government and religion.
No, western ideology is just as "true" as any other when it comes to morality. However, are you saying just because it can't claim to be the 100% true way to do it, that it is not better than ideologies that allow for needless oppression?
Originally posted by chithappens
Lynch mobs have no problem hanging black people. It is their good. I don't say they are cool and I don't mind it. That's just what they do and what they think. People can say whatever they want to them about how evil it is and they hold to what they believe. The focal point is what culture is doing the judging and what the mindset is. Lynch mobs are wrong in a democratic society and not acceptable (at least in the ones of today). I could write an essay on this but frankly I am too lazy to do so.
Please, I would love an essay on this, as long and as specific as you can make it.
Originally posted by chithappens
I do not endorse it but the words good and evil are just used to mess with people's heads.
Interesting, I do not endorse the use of the word potato or blue, as they are instruments of confusion
Originally posted by chithappens
I never said that nations DO or EVER WILL try to understand one another. But all the diplomacy is a facade. That was my point for the start.
This point is totally unrealted to whether or not we as a society should condem the actions of other cultures.
Originally posted by chithappens
Oh and if you notice all those organizations such as the UN are in place, and that's good but they don't control a damn thing in terms of the actions of a nation. Countries receive sanctions all the time and continue what they were doing. Bush used it like this, "diplomacy was attempted and they didn't comply so we invaded." Those organizations are in good intention but they are without power so they are useless. In implementation, oh excuse me the "real world", they do nothing.
ya, again, nothing to do with judging other nations.
Also, because the UN is useless doesn't mean other NGO groups are. Go read up on Doctor's without Borders.
Hell, look at what Bill Gates is doing in Africa.
Originally posted by chithappens
I am not trying to say I know everything, but you are making assumptions about me without asking which is cute, it really is.
Thanks, I am cute 😄