Luke Cage and Iron Fist versus Spiderman and Wolverine

Originally posted by h1a8
Characters in comics have varying speed, strength, power showings. They don't always operate at the same levels. Spidey has operated at slightly above human speed to speeds multiple times faster than bullets, same with scorpion or any other character.

Gladiator shattered a planet with a few punches. It would be stupid of me to argue
"Colossus beats Namor for a majority because he tanked Gladiator punches and Gladiator was shown to destroy planets with his punches."

Arguments like that are faulty but nonetheless convincing to those who don't understand how comics work.

I believe that Spidey can operate his limbs about 1.5-3x faster than Iron Fist. But he holds back. So that would probably reduce his attack speed to that of Iron Fist levels. Similarly, Iron Fist (in character) wouldn't attempt to shatter Spidey's arm like he did Scorpions tail. Scorpions tail can be replaced while Spidey's arm cannot. Plus Spidey's sense would be going off and telling him not to throw that particular punch at that time (rather use webbing instead).

Danny's also operated from slightly above peak human, to much faster then bullets.

So how can you make a hard claim about Spider-man's limb speed relative to Iron Fist's?

I think Claremont nailed it with his Steel Serpent/Spider-man fight, where at full speed Spidey was quick enough to dart in and out of SS's reach, but was unable to hit him at full strength , or more then once or twice, for fear of being hit with a fully chi amped punch (Which Spidey's durability would be useless against.)

Or put another way, a middleweight boxer is faster then a heavyweight boxer. A middleweight might even be able to win on points. But all the heavyweight needs to land, is a single punch..

Originally posted by cdtm
Danny's also operated from slightly above peak human, to much faster then bullets.

So how can you make a hard claim about Spider-man's limb speed relative to Iron Fist's?

I think Claremont nailed it with his Steel Serpent/Spider-man fight, where at full speed Spidey was quick enough to dart in and out of SS's reach, but was unable to hit him at full strength , or more then once or twice, for fear of being hit with a fully chi amped punch (Which Spidey's durability would be useless against.)

Or put another way, a middleweight boxer is faster then a heavyweight boxer. A middleweight might even be able to win on points. But all the heavyweight needs to land, is a single punch..

Spidey could kill IF with one punch if he didn't hold back. Peter can literally punch and grab his heart. Spidey holds back on beings he can kill. IF also isn't going to hit Spidey with a killing punch either (he holds back too). Both can ko the other in one hit or two if they unleash a little. Spidey's chance of hitting IF is much greater than the other way around. Spidey has SS added to his speed, reflexes, and agility. He also has webbing to slow IF down greatly.

Originally posted by h1a8
I can make a claim about Spider-man's relative speed because he is normally portrayed as faster than IF. He is a low level speedster. Plus I use a character's full capacity as the power level in a forum fight.

Spidey could kill IF with one punch if he didn't hold back. Peter can literally punch and grab his heart. Spidey holds back on beings he can kill. IF also isn't going to hit Spidey with a killing punch either (he holds back too). Both can ko the other in one hit or two if they unleash a little. Spidey's chance of hitting IF is much greater than the other way around. Spidey has SS added to his speed, reflexes, and agility. He also has webbing to slow IF down greatly.

You seem to be under the impression that Danny's durability is street level.

The truth is, his durability is variable depending on his chi amping.. This is proven in numerous stories, like the one where Luke Cage failed to knock him out with a punch to the back of the head when he was red suited "evil Iron Fist". And Black Panther could not even get a reaction against the same.

Obviously, these are extreme examples, but it's more likely Iron Fist can simply block Spider Man's attacks with his charged Iron Fist's, which he tends to have charged nearly all the time lately, and greatly enhances the durability of his hand and arm (Hence why it's called "Iron Fist"😉.

Spidey, on the other hand, can't really block an IF.. He'd need to fully dodge. The fact he HAS to dodge, and opens himself up to being hit whenever he's in striking range, either gives Danny a defensive advantage, or negates Spidey's speed advantage, depending on how much faster you think he is.

Also, while Spidey has webbing, Danny has ranged attacks of his own. His chi attacks can be cast out like "beams" of sorts, shockwaves, all by punching the air.

And as a final demonstration of the IF's amping ability, and specifically against Spidey's webbing:

When the likes of Black Tarantula break his webbing like this, Spidey reacts in shock, so that gives you an idea of how impressive this feat is. (Bricks like Cage, and Rogue struggle to break it. Spidey himself was trapped in webbing once, having to wait for it to dissolve naturally.)

Yes, Danny waited a bit before performing his amping, but this is also very early Iron Fist. I believe it even predates Chris Claremont's series. Today, he could perform this feat effortlessly and immediately.