mace & sidious

Exactly, it seems people don't comprehend the meaning of the word 'overpower.'

Now getting back to who is more powerful against darksiders, yes, Mace has an extreme talent with Shatterpoint and mastery of Vaapad, and yes, those are two advantages he possesses that Yoda doesn't, however nobody here can quantify the advantages that they offer against darksiders and claim that the advantages are to such a degree that they make Mace a bigger threat against darksiders than Yoda, despite Yoda being more powerful.

Now let's go back to the quote in the RotS novelisation - 'most powerful foe that the darkness has ever known.' In this context, 'most powerful' actually means 'most powerful against darksiders,' as in respect to the story, how powerful Yoda is against non-darksiders is completely irrelevant, as they are not his enemies, and he would never be facing them. When somebody is labelled as 'most powerful' in such a context, it mean 'most powerful against his enemies,' it's that simple.

So to go back to my earlier point, despite those two advantages that Mace possesses, Yoda is still the more powerful against his enemies than Mace is. So again, the fact that Palpatine's skill and ferocity increased by such a substantial degree makes it pretty obvious that he was going easy on Mace.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Exactly, it seems people don't comprehend the meaning of the word 'overpower.'

Now getting back to who is more powerful against darksiders, yes, Mace has an extreme talent with Shatterpoint and mastery of Vaapad, and yes, those are two advantages he possesses that Yoda doesn't, however nobody here can quantify the advantages that they offer against darksiders and claim that the advantages are to such a degree that they make Mace a bigger threat against darksiders than Yoda, despite Yoda being more powerful.

Now let's go back to the quote in the RotS novelisation - 'most powerful foe that the darkness has ever known.' In this context, 'most powerful' actually means 'most powerful against darksiders,' as in respect to the story, how powerful Yoda is against non-darksiders is completely irrelevant, as they are not his enemies, and he would never be facing them. When somebody is labelled as 'most powerful' in such a context, it mean 'most powerful against his enemies,' it's that simple.

So to go back to my earlier point, despite those two advantages that Mace possesses, Yoda is still the more powerful against his enemies than Mace is. So again, the fact that Palpatine's skill and ferocity increased by such a substantial degree makes it pretty obvious that he was going easy on Mace. [/B]

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Awww how cute, the one who always deems quotes inadmissable, and ambiguous, ends up using one because his argument failed. Guess what dumbass, Yoda IS the strongest foe darkness ever faced, but Mace's techniques are more useful. Get that through your skull so you don't embarass yourself further.

Well, that's uh... ha ha, kinda, well, you know... mean?

Anyway, I agree. About Mace's fighting style, that is. And techniques. But when it came to the Force, Yoda was definately more of a threat to the Dark Side.

Originally posted by Council#13
Well, that's uh... ha ha, kinda, well, you know... mean?

Anyway, I agree. About Mace's fighting style, that is. And techniques. But when it came to the Force, Yoda was definately more of a threat to the Dark Side.

Originally posted by vader11
Yes, I agree. Even if Sidious was fighting full out, Mace would still beat him in a saber fight.

Sweet. 🪩 I gained support.

Sidious didn't lost on purpose, he wanted to rule the universe and if he lost to Mace(fake or real), there was a good chance, that Mace was going to kill him, i don't think Sidious would take that chance and he didn't know for sure that Anakin would join him. So, he had no reason to fake it, Mace is just a better swordsman.

Agree.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Sidious didn't lost on purpose, he wanted to rule the universe and if he lost to Mace(fake or real), there was a good chance, that Mace was going to kill him, i don't think Sidious would take that chance and he didn't know for sure that Anakin would join him. So, he had no reason to fake it, Mace is just a better swordsman.

That's right, but weren't you arguing that Dooku > Mace in lightsabers? Logic, my friend, should become your friend.

Originally posted by Gideon
That's right, but weren't you arguing that Dooku > Mace in lightsabers? Logic, my friend, should become your friend.

Originally posted by vader11
Really? I think he would agree that Mace would win before😆

No. He's argued it before, as has Rampant. Both of them place Dooku above Mace, when it simply isn't true.

Originally posted by Gideon
That's right, but weren't you arguing that Dooku > Mace in lightsabers? Logic, my friend, should become your friend.

Unless, i think Dooku is better then Sidious with sabers.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Unless, i think Dooku is better then Sidious with sabers.

Well, that's a nice thought and all, but it would require two things: a.) evidence and b.) a good argument. When you try to argue Dooku's superiority over a character, you usually fall short of both.

Oh, and since you have also agreed that Sidious and Yoda are equals, explain to me something - how could this be if Sidious were inferior to Yoda in a lightsaber duel, since his Force prowess isn't above Yoda's in any respect?

Unless of course you're implying that Dooku > Sidious in lightsaber skills, which would make Yoda > Sidious in lightsaber skills by a considerable amount (given how Yoda managed to force Dooku to flee without putting forth his strongest effort). Yet, this is clearly contradicted by the RotS movie: Yoda, going full out, is only able to stalemate Sidious in a lightsaber duel. In fact, Sidious manages to make Yoda lose ground during their duel on the Chancellor's podium, and forces him to change positions. This would imply a near-equal mastery of a lightsaber, since Yoda never once breached his defenses (and this is when Yoda, again, is going full out against his opponent).

So, in either case, you'd be wrong.

And Mace would still beat Dooku. Sorry. 🙁

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud

1. Around the middle of the duel, Sidious quite clearly had his saber up against Mace's chest, and could have just pushed his saber forward, but chose not to. He could have ended the duel there and then, so the fact that he didn't strongly suggests that he was holding back.

Just adding my two cents. When Sidious does that, Mace defends himself by spreading and going back. Not to mention, Mace was focusing on the blade, if Sidious was to push, it would be easy to counter. Watch fencing.

Heres the video

YouTube video (2:01 - 2:010)

In fact, Sidious indeed pushes the saber further. But like I said, Mace countered it.

Again, Mace's victory is attributed to his shatterpoint abilities, which make him more successful against darkside users, but still less powerful than Yoda.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Again, Mace's victory is attributed to his shatterpoint abilities, which make him more successful against darkside users, but still less powerful than Yoda.

Originally posted by vader11
Since Yoda isn't darksider.

I never say you said that. Indeed I am agreeing with you. I mean Mace is more efficient against darksiders than Yoda. But when Mace fight Yoda, Yoda would win since Yoda isn't a darksider so Mace doesn't have an advantage.

Hmm. As much as I'd hate to say it, I say it's a possibility since say if Sidious didn't hold anything back (assuming if he was holding back at all, which I don't think he was), he would've killed Mace, which Anakin would've pitied him for doing, and thus he'd be less likely to join the dark side. In order for Sidious' plan to work, he needed to make himself seem weaker than he actually was (and make himself look helpless to an extent) so that it would seem Mace had the upper hand on him, in order for Anakin to turn to the dark side by saving Palpatine's life by killing Mace in the process.

That's what some of my fellow Star Wars fans brought up one time before, but I can't help but kind of think they assume too much, even though they could be right...

Frankly the pendulum swings either way in this argument.