Originally posted by batdude123
Against.In the new Mighty Avengers book, Iron Man proved his armor was = to Doom's. Doom was only > because he had to resort to the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak. Before that, Iron Man was stalemating him.
With Iron Man in High Meta, I think low herald is perfect for Doom. And Sentry also put a beat down on Doom as well.
Indeed.
Originally posted by batdude123Magic is part of Doom's powerset...
Against.In the new Mighty Avengers book, Iron Man proved his armor was = to Doom's. Doom was only > because he had to resort to the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak. Before that, Iron Man was stalemating him.
With Iron Man in High Meta, I think low herald is perfect for Doom. And Sentry also put a beat down on Doom as well.
Wasn't there a proposal to have IM moving up... however there was already three people?
Sentry punched a basically exerted Doom around...
srug
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Magic is part of Doom's powerset...
His scientific power is enough to stalemate Iron Man going all out... and his magic is more powerful... ermmWasn't there a proposal to have IM moving up... however there was already three people?
Sentry punched a basically exerted Doom around...
srug
Magic is what makes Doom>Iron Man. I already said that, didn't I? Not two categories above him mind you, but above him. Low herald.
The Iron Man movement was shot to hell. In fact, the ratio to him staying in the mid tier category was like 2:1.
So? You'd be alone in thinking that Doom would give Sentry a good fight anyway.
If you wanna say yes to him being mid herald, be my guest. Of course my answer is no.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
No, he exerted himself stalemating Iron Man.And I said before, it's not an accurate portrayal of how Doom's energy works.
🙂
Right, because Iron Man's energy usually drains that fast as well? Lulz.
Who cares how long it took? The point made by Bendis was that the Doom armor = the Iron Man armor.
No it doesn't. However, we're talking about Doom right now, aren't we?
OK. That doesn't downplay other Doom feats based off of that one scenario though. 🙂
Originally posted by batdude123You made it seem as if Doom cheaped out a win.
Magic is what makes Doom>Iron Man. I already said that, didn't I? Not two categories above him mind you, but above him. Low herald.The Iron Man movement was shot to hell. In fact, the ratio to him staying in the mid tier category was like 2:1.
Doom's armor energies were down, but there was no evidence to suggest the armor's durability was weakened.
If you wanna say yes to him being mid herald, be my guest. Of course my answer is no.
Wasn't IM supposed to move up to low herald, but there was already three people there?
He had 7% of his shields left... Sentry whittled that down, while IM took down the other 93%... which is absolutely ridiculous... plus Doom has better shields, and better capabilities than what he used anyway.
He wasn't hurt either, but his energy was down (as was IM's).
I don't believe it can be brought up anyway... there's already three people, no?
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
You made it seem as if Doom cheaped out a win.
If Doom can finish IM in one attack, then you can't really compare them, IMO (or IM is far below him). Plus, Doom has other magic, and would easily take out IM just using that...Wasn't IM supposed to move up to low herald, but there was already three people there?
He had 7% of his shields left... Sentry whittled that down, while IM took down the other 93%... which is absolutely ridiculous... plus Doom has better shields, and better capabilities than what he used anyway.
He wasn't hurt either, but his energy was down (as was IM's).I don't believe it can be brought up anyway... there's already three people, no?
Because Iron Man totally tried exotic moves, am i rite?! He tried to do some shit in the end, but I mean locking hands with Doom and blasting is totally some versatile stuff!! 😐 "Finish him in one attack" is the equivalent of Magneto BFR'ing someone with a wormhole. Let's move him up to mid!!!
And as I said before... no, he was not. His motion to move up was defeated soundly 2:1 (18 against, 9 for... or something like that).
Point of that comic was to show that Doom is>=Iron Man because of magic. Their armor's energies (however long it lasted is irrelevant in this scenario) are equal. Doom is above Iron Man, but he's not mid herald level. And also, the next Mighty Avengers comic has them facing off again, so...
I don't really care. My vote is no. You've made it clear you feel he needs to be there, otherwise you wouldn't have responded.
Originally posted by batdude123So it was stupidity on both ends? 🙂
Because Iron Man totally tried exotic moves, am i rite?! He tried to do some shit in the end, but I mean locking hands with Doom and blasting is totally some versatile stuff!! 😐 "Finish him in one attack" is the equivalent of Magneto BFR'ing someone with a wormhole. Let's move him up to mid!!!And as I said before... no, he was not. His motion to move up was defeated soundly 2:1 (18 against, 9 for... or something like that).
Point of that comic was to show that Doom is>=Iron Man because of magic. Their armor's energies (however long it lasted is irrelevant in this scenario) are equal. Doom is above Iron Man, but he's not mid herald level. And also, the next Mighty Avengers comic has them facing off again, so...
I don't really care. My vote is no. You've made it clear you feel he needs to be there, otherwise you wouldn't have responded.
OK. Just judging by what I remember reading about that last. 🙂
So, bad writing can't be called into question if their energy depletes that fast (or the fact that Doom has shown more power than that)? Plus, Sentry wouldn't have gotten in that position in the first place, if Doom's energy didn't deplete that fast ("beat down" as you called it). And no, I'm not saying Doom would win, however, Doom would have been able to fight back.
Also, it's sort of irrelevant as to where his armor is, if we're bringing up the fact that his magic can easily take out IM anyway.
It's not because of magic, it's because Doom's more powerful then. 🙂
And yet it was brought up now. Whether he loses or wins, is irrelevant on the now issue.
That's not true. I responded because I didn't feel your reasoning was right. I'm still thinking about the placement, if it goes through (I mean, it was Tony Stark that brought it up... and he thought IM was mid herald material, erk, erk, erk...).
Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait so a single recent low showing counters all the good showings in the character's history?
Why is stalemating Iron Man's armor a low showing, exactly?
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
So it was stupidity on both ends? 🙂
The Crimson Bands made IM have to go into a system reboot... they didn't BFR him. 🙂OK. Just judging by what I remember reading about that last. 🙂
So, bad writing can't be called into question if their energy depletes that fast (or the fact that Doom has shown more power than that)? Plus, Sentry wouldn't have gotten in that position in the first place, if Doom's energy didn't deplete that fast ("beat down" as you called it). And no, I'm not saying Doom would win, however, Doom would have been able to fight back.
Also, it's sort of irrelevant as to where his armor is, if we're bringing up the fact that his magic can easily take out IM anyway.
It's not because of magic, it's because Doom's more powerful then. 🙂And yet it was brought up now. Whether he loses or wins, is irrelevant on the now issue.
That's not true. I responded because I didn't feel your reasoning was right. I'm still thinking about the placement, if it goes through (I mean, it was Tony Stark that brought it up... and he thought IM was mid herald material, erk, erk, erk...).
Did their armors stalemate? Answer: yes. Doom had to use the Bands as a last ditch effort of gaining the upper hand in the middle of battle. Otherwise he wouldn't have humored Tony with their little game of mercy. This all of a sudden means that Doom is two notches above Stark on the tier system? Not at all. And containing someone with Bands = just as cheap as BFR. The point of reference applies to both. They don't need to be the same thing. Also, I could just as easily say that Tony should've used the satellite trick from the very beginning to rain down on Doom.
Seriously, who cares about the duration of the time in which their energies lasted in that scenario? Both Iron Man and Doom were expelling all of their power into each other's armors at the same time. They ended up = to each other. Why is that a bad showing for Doom against Tony's Extremis armor? If anything, that's pretty good.
I already said Doom is above Iron Man because of magic, but my reasoning is wrong? WTF? I don't get it. Is it the fact that I don't think VVD is mid herald or something? You're making it seem like I think Doom is = to Iron Man in general. I'm merely stating facts here of what went down in the comic.
It won't go through. Doom is perfect for the low herald category. There's no reason for him to be higher than low as far as I'm concerned.
And what's with all the smilies? Do you think it makes your post look cute or something?
Originally posted by batdude123
Why is stalemating Iron Man's armor a low showing, exactly?
Originally posted by darthgoober
Compare the feats of Iron Man's tech and armor and Doom's tech and armor and it becomes pretty clear why. Doom's armor has stood up to far worse than Tony and it's never(at least to my knowledge) been anywhere near as depleted as it ended up being in that particular fight. Hell I've seen DoomBOTS with better showings, and they're all substandard to the real deal...
There's no reason to consider Doom's armor better than Iron Man's Extremis armor. The duration in which their energies were depleted is completely irrelevant. The point was to show that their power output is equal.
What's so hard to understand about that?
Originally posted by batdude123
There's no reason to consider Doom's armor better than Iron Man's Extremis armor. The duration in which their energies were depleted is completely irrelevant. The point was to show that their power output is equal.What's so hard to understand about that?
But let's assume that you're right for a second and say that their armors are equal... so what? Doom is still right up there with some of the best sorcerers around. He can summon demons(up to and including Mephisto), cast the Crimson Bands, weaken the barriers between Dimensions and his mystic blast are enough to rock the Beyonder. Hell he gave Strange something of a workout BEFORE he spent weeks studying under him(and it was shown in that arc that Doom could learn mystic techniques just by WATCHING them, so those weeks would have increased his power considerably).
That level of sorcery+Extremis Ironman level armor still= Mid level Herald IMO(especially since Extremis Ironman borders on low Herald himself).
Originally posted by darthgoober
But there IS reason to believe just that. Doom's armor has feats like one shotting Adam Warlock(twice), putting down Hulk in a few panels, withstanding attacks from guys likes of Thor, Surfer, and Thanos w/IG(Doom was one of 2 or 3 that weren't one shotted) and taking on and beating down the entire roster of the FF to it's credit. What has Extremis done on that level again?
And weaker armors of Iron Man also have him defeating Hulk, Thor, Surfer, etc.
His new armor has beaten the shit out of Graviton, and he beat Sentry somewhat, and he also did well against the Collective.
Originally posted by darthgoober
But let's assume that you're right for a second and say that their armors are equal... so what? Doom is still right up there with some of the best sorcerers around. He can summon demons(up to and including Mephisto), cast the Crimson Bands, weaken the barriers between Dimensions and his mystic blast are enough to rock the Beyonder.
Yah? I said magic makes Doom superior... and?
Originally posted by darthgoober
That level of sorcery+Extremis Ironman level armor still= Mid level Herald IMO(especially since Extremis Ironman borders on low Herald himself).
And Doom is low herald in my opinion. He isn't mid.
Originally posted by batdude123
And weaker armors of Iron Man also have him defeating Hulk, Thor, Surfer, etc.His new armor has beaten the shit out of Graviton, and he beat Sentry somewhat, and he also did well against the Collective.
Originally posted by batdude123
Yah? I said magic makes Doom superior... and?
Originally posted by batdude123
And Doom is low herald in my opinion.