Originally posted by Philosophía
The line between mid and high herald is highly debatable for some of the characters there. With that said, for Black Adam to high herald.And if Darkseid stays on the list, at least a pre-Final Crisiss/Seven Soldiers detail would be needed.
Yep, probably at this point is safe to say DS is at the very least Sky-father. 🙂
The Darkseid comments are all very valid. I might end up having to take him off the list entirely, not necessarily because he's absolutely above Trans. (though certain versions of him are) but because of the ridiculous # of versions we'd now have to specify.
Pre-original-Crisis DS? Skyfather+. FC DS? Skyfather+. The in-between period there? Probably Trans, or HH given his multiple stalemates or losses to Superman. It's too variable a character, and might not be worth it to differentiate versions.
Keep discussing it though. As always, I make final decisions, but trty to keep it as democratic as possible. I've made few, if any, changes that haven't been widely accepted.
Losing to Superman is not justification for him being downgraded. And he has only one clean loss.
there's no absolute possible justification for keeping him on the list. Darkseid is skyfather plus and as proven by FC, which showed the true stature of the new gods, even that may be underestimating him.
He's not variable in the least, you just have to look at the full context of his abilities and stories. And certain versions? IT'S ALL THE SAME GUY. GDS is the only one that's not Darkseid in the strictest sense and Darkseid killed his older (GDS) counterpart as a young Darkseid, before he started boosting his power by killing pantheons.
This arguement is maddening. 👇
Originally posted by kevdude
So how does this go?? Just anyone gets to vote??
For the most part, though you should qualify any votes with some form of reasoning.
Also, Trick, you'd do well not to argue against points I didn't make. The most mystifying thing is that I wasn't making a statement intended as argument for or against a position. I was just stating some ideas about him for consideration. And no one would argue that it's the same character (requisite dur smilie) but to say that all versions are equal is also a bit daft. So was he always at FC power levels? Of course not. Try not to work yourself into a corner. You obviously have some valid points to make about DS, but when you overstep yourself like that, it calls the entire thing into question.
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
If BA gets bumped up than how come CA doesnt?
Feats. Much as they're often shown as equals, does CA have anything on level with Adam's WWIII team-wrecking showings? If he does, cool. I'm not defending Adam, just saying what others have in the past about him.
Originally posted by Digi
For the most part, though you should qualify any votes with some form of reasoning.Also, Trick, you'd do well not to argue against points I didn't make. The most mystifying thing is that I wasn't making a statement intended as argument for or against a position. I was just stating some ideas about him for consideration. And no one would argue that it's the same character (requisite dur smilie) but to say that all versions are equal is also a bit daft. So was he always at FC power levels? Of course not. Try not to work yourself into a corner. You obviously have some valid points to make about DS, but when you overstep yourself like that, it calls the entire thing into question.
Feats. Much as they're often shown as equals, does CA have anything on level with Adam's WWIII team-wrecking showings? If he does, cool. I'm not defending Adam, just saying what others have in the past about him.
BA was amped at the end of 52 during WWIII. That doesnt really count as normal power level right? Billy should be where Adam lands(high herald) with normal power. Freddie however has yet to prove himself and may be added later one once he gets better feats?
I can't believe people are still spinning those losses to Superman. Fact of of the matter is prior to FC, DS was probably one of the weaker guys in the Trans tier.
The guy was written as being Superman level, plain and simple. That's not an insult considering Superman is the god damn man in the DCU but it is what it is.