KMC Comic Book Tiers

Originally posted by Digi
Karate Kid. So no, it's not an absolutely requirement.

Also, Batman's belt has many cool feats, but how many of those things have recurring roles, enough to be considered standard? That's the problem with that. If we include every little gadget that has made a cameo appearance for him, he's probably mid. But if include only those things that we know he always has in his belt, we're down to much, much fewer bells and whistles. If anyone can produce documentation of what would be considered standard for him, it would make things easier.

Bats has more than enough firepower in his regular arsenal to warrant a justification to mid meta.

Batman to low meta

For: leo, batdude123, Creshosk, Battlehammer, Kris Blaze, darthgoober, Nuul

Against: Rage.Of.Olympus, SuperiorTech, Enyalus

So far that's 7 for and 3 against.

Against Batman

Yeah, I change my vote to against as well!

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Against Batman

K

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yeah, I change my vote to against as well!

Serious?

Originally posted by batdude123
I'm just going to put it this way...

When you can stand in the middle of a building sized explosion and survive (and not just survive... come out of it WITHOUT A SCRATCH), then, at least imo, you've crossed the line between street level and meta level.

Regardless of the fact that Bats is a human.

He doesn't though, and he doesn't have a wide enough margin above all those other people that take hits who only have human durability (with tech aid), so he's not meta level.

Seems pretty straight forward.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
If Batman had durability that was typically portrayed at a meta level, I'd agree.

He doesn't though, and he doesn't have a wide enough margin above all those other people that take hits who only have human durability (with tech aid), so he's not meta level.

Seems pretty straight forward.

Indeed it does seem pretty straight forward.

He has plenty of feats that showcase his durability via his armor as being plenty high enough for low meta. You add in all his weapons and gadgets, and he's packing more heat than most in the low meta category.

Again, this isn't based on individual matchups, but rather, overall power. And Batman has more power than any in the street tier.

Originally posted by batdude123
Indeed it does seem pretty straight forward.

He has plenty of feats that showcase his durability via his armor as being plenty high enough for low meta. You add in all his weapons and gadgets, and he's packing more heat than most in the low meta category.

Again, this isn't based on individual matchups, but rather, overall power. And Batman has more power than any in the street tier.

For Batman to low-meta.

Batman to low meta

For: leo, batdude123, Creshosk, Battlehammer, Kris Blaze, darthgoober, Nuul, Ha Son

Against: Rage.Of.Olympus, SuperiorTech, Enyalus, Original Smurph

So far that's 8 for and 4 against.

Mr. Terrific can hack into every radio and television station in the world at once.

Elektra moves fast enough to deflect machine gun fire, possesses telepathy, can mind swap, mind wipe, and has demonstrated a number of chi-based powers (chi scream, chi telekinesis, chi invisibility, chi stealth, etc) over the years.

Same goes for Shang Chi, plus he can amp his physical stats up pretty high. Iirc, he moved fast enough to look like a whirlwind.

Black Panther's suit makes him a lot more durable than the exploding building feat that Batman pulled off, so if that puts Batman in low meta, so is BP.

Since Captain America can take any hit with his shield that would kill a thousand Batmans, I guess Cap's in low meta too.

Originally posted by batdude123
And Batman has more power than any in the street tier.

For Batman to low meta.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Mr. Terrific can hack into every radio and television station in the world at once.

Is that standard equipment for Terrific? Doesn't he have to be at his computer in the JSA headquarters in order to do that?

Let's not pretend that Batman doesn't have tech out the ass with his computer and batcave. Still, that has nothing to do with these placements.

Besides, pretty sure Terrific has regular human durability.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Elektra moves fast enough to deflect machine gun fire, possesses telepathy, can mind swap, mind wipe, and has demonstrated a number of chi-based powers (chi scream, chi telekinesis, chi invisibility, chi stealth, etc) over the years.

Outside of her speed, it's nothing that impressive. This is a question of firepower, and she simply doesn't have it.

JLA Classified #15, all the offensive output of the League doesn't put a monster away, and one simple time fuse batarang from Bats does the job just fine.

Elektra also doesn't have the durability.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Same goes for Shang Chi, plus he can amp his physical stats up pretty high. Iirc, he moved fast enough to look like a whirlwind.

Shang Chi is already low meta. 😬

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Black Panther's suit makes him a lot more durable than the exploding building feat that Batman pulled off, so if that puts Batman in low meta, so is BP.

T'Challa has a lot of shady armor durability feats. You'd be hard-pressed to find a scan showcasing his armor's durability that Batman couldn't match.

Also, T'Challa's weaponry isn't as powerful as Batman's.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Since Captain America can take any hit with his shield that would kill a thousand Batmans, I guess Cap's in low meta too.

Context, my friend.

A bullet from a sniper to the dome killed Captain America, whereas a bullet from a sniper to Bats' dome wouldn't even make him flinch. Yes the shield helps, but it isn't related to his overall durability. Steve would be incinerated inside a building sized explosion. 😬

I also defer back to the offensive output/firepower point that Bats has over Captain America.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Black Panther and Mr. Terrific all certainly have more power, and the difference isn't high enough above people like Elektra and Shang Chi that he should be in low meta while they shouldn't.

Neither have more power.

Batman to low meta

For: leo, batdude123, Creshosk, Battlehammer, Kris Blaze, darthgoober, Nuul, Ha Son, Blanket

Against: Rage.Of.Olympus, SuperiorTech, Enyalus, Original Smurph

So far that's 9 for and 4 against.

Originally posted by batdude123
Bats has more than enough firepower in his regular arsenal to warrant a justification to mid meta.

Which is still a generalization, and didn't answer my question. It's like the "Oh, Reed wins with prep" type arguments without having any idea what he'd actually do with his prep to win a particular matchup. What does he have regularly enough that we can consider standard, that isn't batarangs, grappling hook, and maybe a few gas bombs?

Against, unless I'm convinced otherwise.

Originally posted by batdude123
Is that standard equipment for Terrific? Doesn't he have to be at his computer in the JSA headquarters in order to do that?

Originally posted by batdude123
Besides, pretty sure Terrific has regular human durability.

Originally posted by batdude123
Outside of her speed, it's nothing that impressive. This is a question of firepower, and she simply doesn't have it.

Originally posted by batdude123
JLA Classified #15, all the offensive output of the League doesn't put a monster away, and one simple time fuse batarang from Bats does the job just fine.

Has Batman ever used a time fuse batarang a second time in his career? I do recall it being labeled on the batarang itself, so it shouldn't be hard to tell.

Originally posted by batdude123
Shang Chi is already low meta. 😬

Originally posted by batdude123
T'Challa has a lot of shady armor durability feats. You'd be hard-pressed to find a scan showcasing his armor's durability that Batman couldn't match.

Also, T'Challa's weaponry isn't as powerful as Batman's.

Iron Man talks about how his blunt force and energy attacks would be useless against T'Challa.

BP's also taken full on blasts from Stardust, countless strikes repeatedly from the Iron Fist, completely unscratched by bullets and heat, etc.

Clearly low meta, no?

Originally posted by batdude123
Context, my friend.

A bullet from a sniper to the dome killed Captain America, whereas a bullet from a sniper to Bats' dome wouldn't even make him flinch. Yes the shield helps, but it isn't related to his overall durability. Steve would be incinerated inside a building sized explosion. 😬

A bullet from a sniper to the dome killed a Captain America that was in power dampeners, held by SHIELD agents and shield-less. Akin to Batman that had no equipment, which would certainly kill him.

I highly doubt Steve would be incinerated, but the point is moot when he can survive attacks like this

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9248/thor2pk4.jpg

with his regular equipment, that would leave Batman as paste.

Originally posted by batdude123
I also defer back to the offensive output/firepower point that Bats has over Captain America.

As for firepower, Cap's shield lets him deal more damage to high durability characters than anything that Batman uses on a regular basis.

Originally posted by Blanket
Wolverine: In the same class as Iron Man, above War Machine, Cyclops.

lol, that carries no weight at all.

And your "opinion" holds more weight then something coming straight from the horses mouth (Marvel)?

Just for the record, I'm only for Bat's getting bumped if Cap does. Bruce has definitely got some firepower and loads of versatility with his utility belt, but Cap's pulled off more "metahuman" level feats IMO. Just thought I'd clarify since at the time I talked about supporting the move I was making a point about Bat's high explosives and Cap didn't really apply in the discussion. Both have areas that they excel in, but overall the two are approximately equal and I don't support either getting bumped unless the other gets bumped too.