Originally posted by BattlehammerIf we're going back that far I saw Digi made an against at the same time those two did..
I brought it up a long while back, but the only people I found against was PR and Nuul (who may have change his mind, not sure his responses recently was vague)
7 for and 3 against.. that's still a greater than. 2-to-1 ratio for.
Bumping for pertinence.
Originally posted by Digi
[b]2. It also looks like we may need to re-institute a limit to who can be discussed and voted upon, since too many motions are being put up for vote. Those being voted upon aren't receiving necessary discussion because of all the activity.Jubilee has been done for a bit anyway. So our 3 that can be discussed and voted upon at the moment are Batman, Omega Red, and Wally West. That's it. Updated vote count for any of them are appreciated. [/B]
Originally posted by Original Smurph
He wasn't indicated to be using anything more than his T-mask.
Fair enough.
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Pretty sure that's irrelevant when he can make top notch holograms with a snap of his fingers, or walls of lasers.
Neither of which would help him survive being in the middle of a building destroying blast.
Originally posted by Original Smurph
It's a question of power, not firepower. Elektra's mentally controlled multiple people at the same time to do her bidding, which puts her on Batman's level of power.
baka
If it's not a question of power output, then according to this logic, Elektra would be on Thing's "level of power."
Come on now...
Originally posted by Original Smurph
"One simple time fuse batarang"Has Batman ever used a time fuse batarang a second time in his career? I do recall it being labeled on the batarang itself, so it shouldn't be hard to tell.
It's nothing more than a timed exploding batarang. Yes, he's used it many times before.
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Ah, right, the Shang Chi (Ultimate) in high street denotes only Ultimate Shang Chi, where as Shang Chi (U) would mean something different. My mistake.
👆
Originally posted by Original Smurph
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3636/29ya1.jpgIron Man talks about how his blunt force and energy attacks would be useless against T'Challa.
BP's also taken full on blasts from Stardust, countless strikes repeatedly from the Iron Fist, completely unscratched by bullets and heat, etc.
Clearly low meta, no?
You're using the the issue where BP put SS in a hammer lock as evidence for him? haermm
He got knocked out and/or passed out from IF's shots afterward.
Batman has tanked multiple shots from an enraged Superman, General Eiling, etc. without losing consciousness. I didn't use those as examples of Batman's durability though because damn near everybody in comics has taken shots from damn near everyone with class 100+ strength.
The exploding buildings examples hold more value, imo.
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Context, my friend.A bullet from a sniper to the dome killed a Captain America that was in power dampeners, held by SHIELD agents and shield-less. Akin to Batman that had no equipment, which would certainly kill him.
I highly doubt Steve would be incinerated, but the point is moot when he can survive attacks like this
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9248/thor2pk4.jpg
with his regular equipment, that would leave Batman as paste.
It wouldn't leave Batman as paste, but I digress.
Cap has a 2-3 foot diameter of protection. It wouldn't help him at all against omnidirectional blasts/attacks. It would be completely different if Cap had a vibranium/steel alloy armored suit covering his entire body.
So you don't actually think Cap would die in that type of explosion? Wow...
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Which is hilarious, because earlier you acted as if one durability feat would be enough to place Bruce in low meta. Now you back peddle because his durability really doesn't stand out that much.
I'm not back peddling at all. Being at ground zero of a building destroying blast and coming out of it without a scratch is a low meta feat, at least.
Batman's weapons/gadgets are the icing on the cake, imo.
Originally posted by Original Smurph
As for firepower, Cap's shield lets him deal more damage to high durability characters than anything that Batman uses on a regular basis.
Captain America's shield has probably done more damage to top tiers than Cyclops' blast, yet it's common knowledge that Cyclops has a lot more power output.
It's the same with Batman bloodying up Darkseid and Despero with a batkick. Guarantee Cyclops wouldn't even make them flinch, but you aren't going to see people around here saying Batman's kick has more power output than Cyke's optic blast (at least if they serious).
I don't think it should be argued that Batman's weapon's give him a power advantage over Cap.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I'm undecided on Batman. On one hand I'm of opinion that him and Captain America should always be the benchmarks of the high street level category. On the other hand, considering his effectiveness, resources, feats and some of the people in that category he should by all accounts be there aswell.
Yet, we've got people like Vulture and Angel in low meta.
Lulz.
Originally posted by Digi
Vulture's a Spider-Man villain. I hardly see how he's an insult to the tier.
Just because he a spider man villain does not mean he's, not an insult to the tier. I mean Vultures is a joke to be honest, I not even sure how he could possible be at low meta looking at his fights.
Originally posted by Digi
I heavily dislike the precedent that Batman to LM represents
That makes two of us.
Originally posted by Digi
and also don't believe his standard arsenal warrants the placement.
But this is where I disagree.
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Even if Batman would be bumped to low herald, I'm definitley against Captain America being bumped there aswell.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
In the new X-Force I don't have access to my issues for the next month due to being away at the moment but I specifically remember myself going okay then he has some degree of super strength now.
How about when he beat the shit out of Maximus' Lobo's pack. Whom defeated Wolverine with relative ease on two occasions, took hits from Husk's strongest form and a weakened Juggernaut. They also survived the explosion which nearly took out Juggernaut. Naturally Angel did not kill 'em with his fists, but hurt them, sent them away and such.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
In the new X-Force I don't have access to my issues for the next month due to being away at the moment but I specifically remember myself going okay then he has some degree of super strength now.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
There is no way Angel is a disgrace to the low meta tier, especially not now that he has that incredible healing factor/ability.
Mysterio, then?
There are plenty of people in the low meta tier that have less power than Bats is packing. I also don't like the fact that there are some Bat rogues that he punks on the regular in the lm category.
Anyway...
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Batman to low meta
For: leo, batdude123, Creshosk, Battlehammer, Kris Blaze, darthgoober, Nuul, Ha Son, Blanket, Prof. Wagstaff, Badabing
Against: Rage.Of.Olympus, SuperiorTech, Enyalus, Original Smurph, Digi
11 for and 5 against.
