Originally posted by Soljer
What should the requirements be, then? Black Adam has been a team wrecker for quite a while. The kind of showings he pulled off in WWIII and his previous showings against the JSA AND his showings against Superman more than justify his high herald placement, in my eyes.
Co-sign
Originally posted by SoljerLet me put it this way. If it wasn't for magical properties then where would you place Superman BA in terms of physical abilities?
What should the requirements be, then? Black Adam has been a team wrecker for quite a while. The kind of showings he pulled off in WWIII and his previous showings against the JSA AND his showings against Superman more than justify his high herald placement, in my eyes.
Basically what I'm saying is if Magic didn't effect Superman would BA physically stack up against him?
(Transcendent)
Amazo, The Asgardian Destroyer,Black Racer, Blackheart, Blaze, Circe, Count Abyss, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, The General (Shaggy Man), Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), Jenny Quantum, The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Queen of Fables, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Solomon Grundy (Peak), Stayne, Strange Visitor, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Tanaraq, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus
Herald
High
Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Cyborg Superman, The Eradicator (Fortress Mode), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), The Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Sinestro, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman (B/R and AS), Thor, The Void
Middle
Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Black Bolt, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Cpt. Comet,Captain Marvel (DC), Damien Hellstrom, Doomsday, The Fallen One, Firelord, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John, Katma, Kilowog), Hyperion, Ikaris, Imperiex Probes, Kid Omega, Magus (Post-IG), Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Mon-El, Morg, Nate Grey, Orion, Quasar, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, Skreet, Supergirl, Supreme, Swamp Thing, Terrax the Tamer, Void, Waverider, Wildfire, Wonder Woman
Low
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Batman 1 Million, Bizarro Superman, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Count Nefaria, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death Metal, Dr. Doom, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Engineer, Etrigan, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Gamora (w/Godslayer), Gilgamesh, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Hulk, Iceman, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jenny Sparks, Jericho, Juggernaut (Classic), Kalibak, Lightray, Living Monolith, Lobo, Loki, Lunatik, Magneto, Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Prime, Professor X, Raven, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Sersi, Shadow King, Shaman, Starhawk, Super Skrull, Superboy, Tempest, Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Winter, Zauriel
Metahuman (Mid-tier "Iron Man" level)
High
Abomination, Adam Strange, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Blastaar, Blob, Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian I, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Iron-Man, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Juggernaut (Depowered), Kang, Karate Kid, Living Laser, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nightshade, Nimrod, Northstar, Ocean Master, Osiris, Pitt, Plastic-Man, Polaris, Power Girl, Psylocke, Sand, Sasquatch, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Supernova, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Vision, War Machine, Wonder Man, Zzaxx
Middle
Aegis, Atom Smasher, Attuma, Balder, Beast Boy, Bishop, Blink, Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes), Blue Devil, Bombshell, Booster Gold, Box, Carnage, Cloak, Crystal, Cyborg, Cyclops, Death's Head II, Dust, Electro, Elijah Snow, Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze), Ghost Rider(Dan Ketch), Grace Choi, Havok, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Hellion, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Kymaera/Namorita, Lightning Lad, M.O.D.O.K., Moonstone, Morlun, Ms. Marvel, Nico Minoru, Ogun, Quicksilver (classic), Radioactive Man, Ragman, Rogue, rom, Shadowcat, Shift, Steel, Terra, Thunder, Tiger Shark, Toxin, Vance Astro, Vengeance, Wonder Girl, Enchantress
Low
3-D Man, Ambrose Chase, Angel, Arachne, Arana, Azrael, Beast, Black Canary, Black Tarantula, Blade, Blue Beetle (Dan Garrett), Bruenor Battlehammer, Century, Charcoal, Charlie 27, Constrictor, Creeper, Cyber, Dagger, Deathlok, Deathstroke the Terminator, Doc Ock, Drizzt Do'Urden, Elixer, Falcon, Firehawk, Gambit, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Iron Fist, Jakita Wagner, Karnak, Kid Devil, Killer Croc, Klaw, Lady Deathstrike, Longshot, Luke Cage, Machine Man, Man-Bat, Mercury, Midnighter, Mister Hyde, Molly Hayes, Multiple Man, Mysterio, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Nuke, Omega Red, Orka Humbug, Prometheus, Protocide, Puck, Puma, Rage, Sabretooth, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, Speedball, Speedfreek, Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2099, Spider-Woman, Swift, Thunder Cats, Tombstone, Triathalon, Vance Astro, Vanguard, Venom, Vermin, Victor Mancha, Vulture, Warlock (Technarchy/Phalanx), Warpath, Wizard, Wolverine, Wulfgar
Street Level
High
Bane, Batgirl, Batman, Black Cat, Black Panther, Blacklash, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, Captain America, The Cat, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Hush, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Ravager, Red Skull, Richard Dragon, Taskmaster, Union Jack, X-23
Middle
Red Hood , Arsenal/Red Arrow, Baron Zemo, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Crossbones, Deadshot, Echo, Grifter, Joker, Mach IV, Misty Knight, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Nomad, Peacemaker, Punisher, Ra's Al Ghul, Turok, Wildcat
Low
Alfred, Batroc, Black Widow, Catwoman, Colleen Wing, Night Thrasher, Penguin, The Question, Riddler, Robin, Talia, White Tiger
Originally posted by Newjak
Let me put it this way. If it wasn't for magical properties then where would you place Superman BA in terms of physical abilities?Basically what I'm saying is if Magic didn't effect Superman would BA physically stack up against him?
Did you hear me say "Black Adam's showings against Superman make him high herald!"
No.
I'm pretty sure you didn't.
I mentioned that his showings in WWIII, MANY times against the JSA, COMBINED with his showings against Superman make him high herald.
Originally posted by SoljerLast time I checked one arc doesn't get you moved up. If that was the case then wouldn't BRB get moved up.
Did you hear me say "Black Adam's showings against Superman make him high herald!"No.
I'm pretty sure you didn't.
I mentioned that his showings in WWIII, MANY times against the JSA, COMBINED with his showings against Superman make him high herald.
Besides that IS the biggest reason people want to move him up from what I saw is that he can hang with Superman.
Originally posted by Newjak
Last time I checked one arc doesn't get you moved up. If that was the case then wouldn't BRB get moved up.Besides that IS the biggest reason people want to move him up from what I saw is that he can hang with Superman.
.....There are three conditions that get Black Adam moved up.
1. WWIII
2. All the fights he's had against pretty damned powerful teams.
3. His showings against superman.
Any of them individually would not be enough to get him to high herald. All of them combined? Plenty.
You are attacking them individually. "His showings against Superman aren't enough." I agree.
"His showings in World War Three aren't enough." I agree.
But take them both, and throw in some team bashing since his inception? Plenty.
Originally posted by Soljer
.....There are three conditions that get Black Adam moved up.1. WWIII
2. All the fights he's had against pretty damned powerful teams.
3. His showings against superman.Any of them individually would not be enough to get him to high herald. All of them combined? Plenty.
You are attacking them individually. "His showings against Superman aren't enough." I agree.
"His showings in World War Three aren't enough." I agree.
But take them both, and throw in some team bashing since his inception? Plenty.
Co-sign.
When he has multiple showings, that should be enough. He also showed some pretty good "telepathy" resistance in infinite crisis. When he withstood Psycho Pirate's attack and then poked his eyes out.
Originally posted by SoljerYou look at the list of Mid-Herald people and tell me just how many of them reach those three basics or similar ones.
.....There are three conditions that get Black Adam moved up.1. WWIII
2. All the fights he's had against pretty damned powerful teams.
3. His showings against superman.Any of them individually would not be enough to get him to high herald. All of them combined? Plenty.
You are attacking them individually. "His showings against Superman aren't enough." I agree.
"His showings in World War Three aren't enough." I agree.
But take them both, and throw in some team bashing since his inception? Plenty.
Beta Ray Bill
Martian Manhunter
Doomsday
Supergirl
Hyperion
Mon-El
and you can even look below that and find a few
Lobo
Hulk
He-Man
Now with that out of the way let's look at him.
He is weaker than Superman period he doesn't get moved up.
Originally posted by Soljer
Beta Ray? The Manhunter? C'mon, Black Adam'd school both of them.The HULK? barkslaugh
You saying 'he doesn't get moved up, period.' means very little in the absence of a vote. As far as I can tell, the vote is currently in favor of Black Adam to high herald.
I voted for moving him up, so what does that make it now?
Originally posted by SoljerIn term of power level not really.
Beta Ray? The Manhunter? C'mon, Black Adam'd school both of them.The HULK? barkslaugh
You saying 'he doesn't get moved up, period.' means very little in the absence of a vote. As far as I can tell, the vote is currently in favor of Black Adam to high herald.
Well let's look at Hulk
1) Has an arc that strokes his power level he has had many check
2)Physically strong enough match Superman in strength check
3) Has beaten on powerful teams Avengers mutliple times Thor Wonderman Hercules check
Yeah I say Hulk meets all the criteria. Hence why your criteria basis is utter crap. there are quite a few people that can say they have done those things.
In the end it doesn't matter because he is weaker than Superman period.
And it is a vote and a 4-1 favor to move up BA and CM with Val pending
Hulk
1) Everyone's had an arc that strokes their power level. Including Captain America. It's the LEVEL of the arc. Look at the level of the people Black Adam was shit stomping.
2) Physically strong? Means absolutely dick. Black Adam can match Superman damn near tic for tac.
3) Thor Wonderman and Hercules? 😆
The Hulk met NONE of my criteria. You fail.
Originally posted by SoljerUm an arc where he one shots an asteroid the size twice the size of a planet. An arc where he pushes apart to antimatter orbs which are supposedly infinite in weight. And the upcoming World War Hulk
Hulk1) Everyone's had an arc that strokes their power level. Including Captain America. It's the LEVEL of the arc. Look at the level of the people Black Adam was shit stomping.
2) Physically strong? Means absolutely dick. Black Adam can match Superman damn near tic for tac.
3) Thor Wonderman and Hercules? 😆
The Hulk met NONE of my criteria. You fail.
And Hulk can match Superman in a fight minus only Superspeed being a factor
Thor a planetary power Top-tier Herald
Hercules a planetary lifter
Wonderman a very strong guy
Doctor Strange as well you is in the tier above Thor.
I think he did meet all of your criteria
And I notice you only mentioned Hulk from my list to begin with does that mean everyone else I mentioned fits your criteria as well. 😉
Originally posted by Newjak
Um an arc where he one shots an asteroid the size twice the size of a planet. An arc where he pushes apart to antimatter orbs which are supposedly infinite in weight. And the upcoming World War HulkAnd Hulk can match Superman in a fight minus only Superspeed being a factor
Thor a planetary power Top-tier Herald
Hercules a planetary lifter
Wonderman a very strong guy
Doctor Strange as well you is in the tier above Thor.I think he did meet all of your criteria
And I notice you only mentioned Hulk from my list to begin with does that mean everyone else I mentioned fits your criteria as well. 😉
Just because I didn't discount them one by one doesn't make you any less wrong. The vote's still four to one. doped.
Originally posted by Newjak
No but you picked the one you thought was for sure certain you could disprove of which you really didn't dopedand it is 🙁
No, I picked one. You aren't psychic, and you have no idea why I picked who I did, nor why I decided not to pick any of the others. And, yeah, I did. 😐.
The vote's four to one. Guess what that means?
I'm not the only one that's certain you're wrong. 😐.