Can you handle the Truth?

Started by JesusIsAlive432 pages

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I also believe that all the things in those pictures are far too *all the adjectives that you used* to be one big fat accident. Another interesting fact along with the ozone layer and our perfect distance from the sun, is the fact that both the sun and moon appear to be the same size from Earth and that they fit perfectly over each-other during an eclipse. And if that's a meaningless, purposeless coincidence (along with the big bang and evolution of course) then it sure as hell is an eyebrow-raising one.

Say the god of the Bible wasn't behind it all, fine, but something was.

I agree, there is just too much fortuitousness and serendipity in favor of supporting and sustaining life (and to make life really enjoyable) for this world/universe to have come about by random, undirected, purposeless, chance.

God is the only viable and plausible explanation for the formation of this world/universe (it just makes plain, old, good, common sense to me).

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

God is the only viable and plausible explanation for the formation of this world/universe (it just makes plain, old, good, common sense to me).

I don't think that (a) god(s) is the only possible explanation, but it was definitely no accident.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I don't think that (a) god(s) is the only possible explanation, but it was definitely no accident.
What do you define as accident and why can it definetly not be that?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Hi Storm. Well, to answer your question, my standpoint with regard to this issue is the Scriptures. For this reason, I have a perspective that is different from those who do not subscribe to belief in God. However, the Bible states,

for since the creation of the world His [i.e. God's] invisible attributes are [B]clearly seen being understood by the things that are made , even His eternal power and Godhead [i.e. deity, divinity], so that they [i.e. we] are without excuse [Romans 1:20].

For example, the Bible states that God is all-powerful. What are some material proofs of this? Well we could start with the immense size and nuclear energy (i.e. fusion/power) of the sun:

or the iridescent splendor of the earth (it is like a living jewel):

We can conclude that God is a God of order from how organized many things are:

But when I read in the Bible that God is love and then I ponder the exquisite beauty of a rose:

or the magnificence of a sunset:

or the perfection of a newborn baby:

the cuteness of a kitten:

the elegance of a swan:

or the grace of horses:

I don't see how any of the above examples could have come from a big bang or evolved. This planet is fraught with too many coincidences in favor of supporting life. Case in point, the ozone layer. No other planet has this remarkable uv shield (another favorable coincidence?). I see beauty, design, order, and purpose when I look around this world. Anyone who carefully examines nature, and observes it thoughtfully should be able to infer that God not only has impeccable, aesthetic flair, but that He appreciates variety, and is unquestionably the greatest Artist of all time. The most outstanding distinction between God and human artists is that God gives life (literally) to what He creates. The beautiful things, the unique things, the odd, and the complicated creations of God are like windows that allow each us to peer into God's character and personality. We can get an idea of what God is like by the things that He has made. I don't believe that this universe came about by an uncaused explosion that happened without purpose. I do not believe that life evolved. Neither of those explanations makes sense to me. [/B]


This relies heavily upon personal, subjective interpretation. Reaching the conclusion that, when looking at aspects of nature, they could only have come about through the designs and purposes of God is not logically necessary.

The mere presence of a bloody knife doesn' t prove that someone was murdered, much less who did it. You have to explain how and why the knife is a connection between the deceased and the defendant. Similarly, the presence of planets, etc. that humans cannot create does not prove that they were created, much less who did the creating.

Originally posted by Bardock42
What do you define as accident and why can it definetly not be that?

You know what the definition of accident is right? That's what I mean, no pseudonyms.

Why do I think it can't be one? I thought said so.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I also believe that all the things in those pictures are far too *all the adjectives that you used* to be one big fat accident. Another interesting fact along with the ozone layer and our perfect distance from the sun, is the fact that both the sun and moon appear to be the same size from Earth and that they fit perfectly over each-other during an eclipse. And if that's a meaningless, purposeless coincidence (along with the big bang and evolution of course) then it sure as hell is an eyebrow-raising one.

Say the god of the Bible wasn't behind it all, fine, but something was.

--

Originally posted by Storm

The mere presence of a bloody knife doesn' t prove that someone was murdered, much less who did it. You have to explain how and why the knife is a connection between the deceased and the defendant. Similarly, the presence of planets, etc. that humans cannot create does not prove that they were created, much less who did the creating.

You're right; a bloody knife isn't proof of a murder, but its powerful circumstantial evidence. Just like a crushed car body; you can safely assume it was involved in an accident. You may not have been there to see the event for yourself, but you have enough to arrive at a reasonable conclusion.

We can explain the complexity of living things though without a designer. And we know that it could have been an accident, it is at least possible. To me personally the idea of someone that has a plan and the power to execute it to create our universe raises much larger more complicated questions.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Hi Storm. Well, to answer your question, my standpoint with regard to this issue is the Scriptures. For this reason, I have a perspective that is different from those who do not subscribe to belief in God. However, the Bible states,

for since the creation of the world His [i.e. God's] invisible attributes are [B]clearly seen being understood by the things that are made , even His eternal power and Godhead [i.e. deity, divinity], so that they [i.e. we] are without excuse [Romans 1:20].

For example, the Bible states that God is all-powerful. What are some material proofs of this? Well we could start with the immense size and nuclear energy (i.e. fusion/power) of the sun:

or the iridescent splendor of the earth (it is like a living jewel):

We can conclude that God is a God of order from how organized many things are:

But when I read in the Bible that God is love and then I ponder the exquisite beauty of a rose:

or the magnificence of a sunset:

or the perfection of a newborn baby:

the cuteness of a kitten:

the elegance of a swan:

or the grace of horses:

I don't see how any of the above examples could have come from a big bang or evolved. This planet is fraught with too many coincidences in favor of supporting life. Case in point, the ozone layer. No other planet has this remarkable uv shield (another favorable coincidence?). I see beauty, design, order, and purpose when I look around this world. Anyone who carefully examines nature, and observes it thoughtfully should be able to infer that God not only has impeccable, aesthetic flair, but that He appreciates variety, and is unquestionably the greatest Artist of all time. The most outstanding distinction between God and human artists is that God gives life (literally) to what He creates. The beautiful things, the unique things, the odd, and the complicated creations of God are like windows that allow each us to peer into God's character and personality. We can get an idea of what God is like by the things that He has made. I don't believe that this universe came about by an uncaused explosion that happened without purpose. I do not believe that life evolved. Neither of those explanations makes sense to me. [/B]

Of course these things would be complex to you, hell you can't even figure out how David Blane or Chris Angle do their simplest of tricks. 😆 Why are these things wonders when a rock isn't, bacteria isn't or a single cell? You look around and there is proof of evolution in all of its stages from the single cell to complex life forms, look into the stars and you can see planets and stars being made.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You know what the definition of accident is right? That's what I mean, no pseudonyms.

Why do I think it can't be one? I thought said so.

--

You're right; a bloody knife isn't proof of a murder, but its powerful circumstantial evidence. Just like a crushed car body; you can safely assume it was involved in an accident. You may not have been there to see the event for yourself, but you have enough to arrive at a reasonable conclusion.

👆

Science is just a way for man to understand the world, just like time is a way for man to organize.

It's possible God created all this but it seems complex to us.

Why the **** is anyone arguing about this? That argument makes sense either way. Everyone just wants to be "right" or I guess "righter" since everyone knows they are correct.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
…Well, to answer your question, my standpoint with regard to this issue is the Scriptures.

Then you must abandon the idea of proof.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
For this reason, I have a perspective that is different from those who do not subscribe to belief in God…

And different from other people who subscribe to the bible.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
For example, the Bible states that God is all-powerful. What are some material proofs of this? Well we could start with the immense size and nuclear energy (i.e. fusion/power) of the sun:

That does not prove anything.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't see how any of the above examples could have come from a big bang or evolved.

Because you don’t understand something does not mean it is not true.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
This planet is fraught with too many coincidences in favor of supporting life.

You must first establish that life is not common in the universe.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Case in point, the ozone layer. No other planet has this remarkable uv shield (another favorable coincidence?).

No other planet in this solar system, however, you do not know that for planets around other stars. Also, the ozone layer is a byproduct of oxygen in the atmosphere, and oxygen in the atmosphere is a byproduct life, not the other way around.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I see beauty, design, order, and purpose when I look around this world.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Order does not prove design.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Anyone who carefully examines nature, and observes it thoughtfully should be able to infer that God not only has impeccable, aesthetic flair, but that He appreciates variety, and is unquestionably the greatest Artist of all time.

This is a false statement. If it was true, then there would be no such thing as a scientist who is an atheist.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The most outstanding distinction between God and human artists is that God gives life (literally) to what He creates. The beautiful things, the unique things, the odd, and the complicated creations of God are like windows that allow each us to peer into God's character and personality. We can get an idea of what God is like by the things that He has made. I don't believe that this universe came about by an uncaused explosion that happened without purpose. I do not believe that life evolved. Neither of those explanations makes sense to me.

You are drawing a conclusion from you own opinion.

Originally posted by chithappens
Science is just a way for man to understand the world, just like time is a way for man to organize.

It's possible God created all this but it seems complex to us.

Why the **** is anyone arguing about this? That argument makes sense either way. Everyone just wants to be "right" or I guess "righter" since everyone knows they are correct.

I don’t think it is as much as we are trying to be right (at least for me) but that JIA could be wrong and that he is not willing to accept that. I personally believe that my view maybe wrong and open to the possibilities that there could be a God, the Bible’s version is only one of many possibilities.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
or the perfection of a newborn baby:
Originally posted by Devil King

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!!! 😆 💃 😆 😆 😆 😆

It's so much better laughing at your jokes when I am not on the receiving end.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
I don’t think it is as much as we are trying to be right (at least for me) but that JIA could be wrong and that he is not willing to accept that. I personally believe that my view maybe wrong and open to the possibilities that there could be a God, the Bible’s version is only one of many possibilities.

No other possibility is plausible or viable.

Originally posted by Devil King

Now, why did Jesus-God do that? Do you think they sinned in the womb?

JIA, what are your thoughts?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No other possibility is plausible or viable.

Of course there can't, otherwise the Bible would say so...

Originally posted by Robtard
Of course there can't, otherwise the Bible would say so...

What other explanation can you offer Robtard?

Originally posted by Robtard
Now, why did Jesus-God do that? Do you think they sinned in the womb?

[b]JIA, what are your thoughts? [/B]

God was not responsible for that deformed infant. Did you forget that we live in a fallen world? There was none of this prior to Adam's sin.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What other explanation can you offer Robtard?

1) There is a God, but he isn't the caring Jesus in the sky who once flooded the world and killed everybody, then relied on Noah's family to have incestuous sex as a means of repopulating the planet.

2) There isn't a God and it's all just random

3) ???? Use your imagination.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God was not responsible for that deformed infant. Did you forget that we live in a fallen world? There was none of this prior to Adam's sin.

Babies are sinless, no?