Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have already told you why: God is a Spirit; therefore, He is not part of this physical, three-dimensional, construct we call the universe. God is not subject by the [B]laws of physics or time so He does not have a creator. All things that exist in this universe are subject to time and the laws of physics. [/B]
Energy is a spirit too. 😛
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveThen he should be arrested because he is breaking the law that he created 😉
I have already told you why: God is a Spirit; therefore, He is not part of this physical, three-dimensional, construct we call the universe. God is not subject by the [B]laws of physics or time so He does not have a creator. All things that exist in this universe are subject to time and the laws of physics. [/B]
Leonheartmm, you were not given a opportunity to respond to these posts so I will repost them.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
If that is how you feel.
ur referring to quotes made NOT BY JESUS HIMSELF, for the most part
What do you think the gospels are? They are a written account of "what" Jesus "has" said. Just in case you haven't realized this, there is no such animal as a "Gospel According to Jesus." That is how God wanted it. So your argument that Jesus doesn't directly say that He is the Son of God yada, yada, yada is foolish.
and calling them red letter. either jesus was extremely bipolar or ur
falsely attributing statements to him.
Explained already.
the ones u quoted has jesus referring to himself in the second, thinrd and {gasp} fourth person! that is NOT from his own mouth dumbo!
Explained already.
as for the verses which have jesus callimng god father, i alreaddy gave the explanation that he is referring to THE FATHER OF ALL! never does he HIMSELF say that he is SPECIFICALLY the bilogical offspring of god, take it in CONTEXT! it has to be CONSISTANT with jesus's other statements! and i gave u a few which have him showing god as his master, a completely seperate entity, and him calling himself a SON OF MAN. he alo said that he did not come to oppose/destroy the message of old{old testament} and he never says anything contrary to the old testament HIMSELF{red letter} yet the gospels written by people other than HIM do. an indication that the gospels are NOT in accordance with JESUS'S doctrine.
How did you arrive at your convoluted conclusions? Every time that Jesus is recorded saying "My Father," is referring to His Father in Heaven. Context? What in the world do you think that I have been doing all of this time? Every chapter and verse that I furnish is in context. I am still waiting for you to provide chapter and verse for every one of your claims, but you have failed to provide such. Anyone can make an accusation, but not everyone can back them up. But I have backed up everything (from the Bible and the Qu'ran) that I have stated.
also i said that MUSLIMS dont believe that the bible contains words of christ himself, im NOT a musil, im an agnostic/atheist.
Who cares what the Muslims do or don't believe. I don't believe in Santa Clause is that going to cause you to lose any sleep? So do you think that Muslims not believing that the Bible contains the words of Christ will cause me to lose any sleep? Let me answer that for you: no.
i doubt the existanc of ONE PERSON called jesus,
Who cares what you doubt? That does not make what you doubt true.
but assuming he DID exist the only place where u WUD find his direct teachings are the extremely scarce parts in the bible which are DIRECT quotes of jesus.{red letter}
And you call me dumb. I have already told you (this is now the 3rd or 4th post) that there is no such animal as a direct quote of Jesus (in the sense that you mean it) because Jesus never physically wrote His own biography as such. Everything that we know about Jesus Christ was written by someone else. The gospels are not called the "autobiographical" gospels.
furthermore, they have to be read in the original language as the christians have gone to great pains to translate it in a way in english which supports their theories of trinity, resurrection etc.{lol, if u were unbiased just the HISTORY of interpretation of the word ANOINTER wud give u chills n stop u from ever using it, it has been used for everything from describing jesus to describing cookcing utensils and lamps!}
Anointer?!? Where in the world do you get your information? There is no such animal as "Anointer."
also if ur unaware, the apostles did now write the bible in jesus's life but started and finished the process A LONG TIME AFTER HIS DEATH so there goes it being as histporical record of his life and actions. MOST of it is based on their supposed personal revelaions{or r u telling me that the apocalyptic visions of megido, the antichrist, and the battle to decide the end of the world in revelation were actually REVEALED to jesus and then recorded by his apostles, LOL, most of it are the workings of the apostles themselves christianity has hardly anything to do with christ, its more like PAULISM or JOHNISM}
No, I am fully aware that the gospels were written many years after the events described therein transpired. Your point?
You forgot Markism, Lukism, Jameism, Peterism, and Judism.
😄
as for the part about me being delusional, let me break it down for a simple mind
I didn't say that you were delusional, I said that you sound deluded.
Gasp! Do you really think that I have a simple mind? Whatever shall I do? Should I be concerned? How will I cope?
😂
statement:
"denying to be triune which he ACTUALLY was"
gist of what i was saying" since the claim that the bible god is ACTUALLY trinue is baseless, the quranic god does not have to accept that he was triune to be the same god as that of jesus, hence he denies it and remains the same as jesus's god on an argumentative level. its irony, learn to appreciate it.
No, its foolishness, not irony. (I am still waiting for you to provide chapters and verses from the Bible and some Surahs from the Qu'ran that support your claims because thus far the sum total of everything that you have said is what is baseless).
as far as the story of jonah goes, jesus himself bet ALL his claims of being a messenger on a SINGLE sign. the sign of jonah, seeing as its a DIVINE sign, nothing short of a miracle can be seen to be a sign worthy enough of MAKING THE UNBELIEVERS BELIEVE{the sign was given to the UNBELIEVERS remeber, to show them one and only evidence for jesus's prophethood[or divinity as u take it]} hence it was a miracle{just so were completely unambiguous}.
Funny, I don' recall Jesus betting anything. Second, Jesus never claimed to be a "messenger." Third, nowhere in the gospels or in the other New Testament writings is Jesus ever referred to as a "Messenger." Fourth, there was nothing "divine" about the sign of the prophet Jonah, it was pure symbolism designed to illustrate the event of His death and burial (don't put words in Jesus' mouth). You have read way more into the sign of the prophet Jonah than the most erudite scholar. Trust me, it was not that deep. Turning water into wine is a sign, healing someone who is at the point of dying is a sign, raising the dead is a sign, waking on water is a sign.
No the sign of the prophet Jonah was not given to authenticate or prove Jesus' prophethood or divinity (by the way I never said this either).
do tell me, what is so miraculous about being 3 days and 3 night in the hub of the earth, infact what was so miraculous about jonah being 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale many things can be in the
Where do you get your information from? Can you stick to the script so to speak and use terms that the Bible uses? That is why I harp on being Scriptural and providing chapter and verse for everything that I state (even when I quote the Qu'ran, I provide Surahs). Providing chapter and verse prevents situations just like this one from occurring. I spend more time correcting your flawed, unbiblical statements than I do disputing your claims. No where in the Bible is Jonah said to have been in the belly of a "whale." Jesus was actually in "Hades," a place that comprises Hell (i.e. gehenna) and Tartarus. Apparently, there was once a Paradise side of Hades (aka. Abraham's bosom) and a torment side (Hell). Jesus was dead and entombed for 3 days and 3 nights before He was resurrected from the dead by "His Father in Heaven."
belly of the whale for the same time period including carcassed, what made it a SIGN/MIRACLE then?
Again, a sign is just that: a sign. You are the one calling the sign a "miracle" not Jesus. A sign is simply something that stands for or signifies something else. Jesus used the sign of the prophet Jonah to stand for or signify His death, burial, and perhaps resurrection as well.
the fact is that christians who argue the time period are gravely mistaken and ignorant, the MIRACULOUS "SIGN" of jonah was being 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale and coming out ALIVE! hence unless jesus was lying he came out ALIVE from his tomb and not resurrected as a SPIRIT. as so many christians believe.
I don't know any Christians who argue the time period of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. The only one arguing it is you. It was Jonah's "encapsulation" in the belly of the great fish that is a type or shadow of Jesus' "confinement" in the heart of the earth (i.e. Hades). That is it. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.
as for the second last part i have explained, paul{and the other apostles} CREATED and not recalled most of the gospels. they all{actually only some} point to jesus being crucified{DYING on the cross} n thas easy to explain.
That is your claim now support it. (That is all I ask.) If you cannot support your claims with at least some type of chapter and verse then don't make the claim.
who set up the church? =PAUL
Wrong, Jesus instituted the church.
Matthew 16:17-18
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in Heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
who lead the established church authorities to accept or reject gospels?=PAUL
Wrong, God providentially guided the canon of Scripture to be what it is today, including the gospels. The Bible is God's Book.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
who destroyed any gospels not adhering to paul's view on relegion?
=PAUL
You have an abundance of imagination but a lack of support for what you claim.
which gospels wud have made it in the bible= the ones PAUL wanted
The Bible is not the apostle Paul's Book it is God's. Furthermore, the apostle Paul had nothing to do with deciding the canon of Scripture (i.e. which Books were given by inspiration of God, regarded as such, and compiled to form the Bible).
how many gospels are there in the bible=80 in the normal version{king james} plus almost a hundred{forgive me i forget} in the actual version
how many gospels were discorded= THOUSANDS if not HUNDREDS of thousands
80 gospels?!? Remember the whole, "you sound deluded" thing? This is exactly what I was talking about. There are only "four" gospels contained in the Bible (incidentally, none of them were written by the apostle Paul).
who says that without crucifiction theres no christianity=PAUL
The apostle Paul did not say that without crucifixion there is no Christianity--you did.
The apostle Paul states that if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen from the dead. And if Christ is not risen from the dead, then our faith (i.e. in Jesus Christ) is empty and futile and we are still in our sins. But you know what leonheartmm? The apostle Paul would be absolutely right. Our salvation from sins rests entirely on what Jesus Christ has done for us including His resurrection from the dead. You see, if Jesus did not rise from the dead (demonstrating His victory over death and Hades), then neither would we rise from the dead. We would not be capable of having eternal life. Notwithstanding, the apostle Paul did not end on that sad, pitiable note. Paul went on to say:
1 Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
{forgetting an almost infinite number of other pointss} u see how only accounts WITH THE CRUCIFIXION and him being son ofgod entered the gospels{although many things which lead to the opposite were put in wihtout knowing their implications}
I don't know what you are talking about here.
as for the last part i have simply explained how ALOIH was translated to ALLAH in the arabic dialect.
So.
Jesus was not calling out to the god of the Qu'ran, He was calling out to His Father in Heaven.
or are u gonna tell me next that YAKOOB is not JACOB, SULAIMAN is not SOLOMON, IBRAHIM is not ABRAHAM, ISMAIL IS NOT ISHMAIL, ISHAAQ IS NOT ISAAC, DAOOD IS NOT DAVID, ISAA IS NOT JESUS, MUSAA IS NOT MOSES, HAWA IS NOT EVE, MIKHAIL IS NOT MICHEAL, SHAYTAAN IS NOT SATAN, ISRAEL IS NOT AZREAL, JIBRAEEL IS NOT GABRIEL, YUSUF IS NOT JOSEPH, PHIRON IS NOT PHAROH, YAJOOJ MAJOOJ ARE NOT GOG MAGOG etc etc etc. its just DIALECT.
All you have established is that one language is capable of being translated into another language. None of that means that Jesus was calling out to the god of the Qu'ran. In the Aramaic language that Jesus spoke, He was calling out to His Father in Heaven in accordance with Psalm 22:1. Actually, Jesus was quoting Psalm 22:1.
i can make a fair point that muslims COPIED these words but that doesnt mean theyr not referring to the same thing. eloih to allah is not a jump, just logical progression.
Jesus is not calling Allah because the god of the Qu'ran is not His Father. The god of the Qu'ran flat out denies having a son and that Jesus was crucified. This is proof positive that Jesus was not calling the god of the Qu'ran, and that the God of the Bible (YHWH) and the god of the Qu'ran are not one and the same.
u have not established the fact that he was calling to his biological father.
Jesus does not have a "biological Father" in the sense that you mean it, but yes from the standpoint of Him being the Son of God (i.e. divine), God (YHWH), and God alone is His Father. You must bear in mind leonheartmm that Jesus Christ has "always" existed. Jesus existed before He took upon Himself flesh and was born of the virgin Mary. He and the Father were identified with One another.
btw why wud yeshua say oh god oh god hwy hast thou forsaken me if
You are just notorious for inserting words or phrases that are downright unscriptural. Jesus did not say "oh God, " He said "My God." (There is a difference).
he went up WILLINGLY on the cross. and how exactly can one forsake their ownself going by the trinity. n why didnt jesus say oh FATHER oh FATHER why hast thou forsaken me in such a painful moment?
Jesus was quoting Psalm 22:1. Jesus was always "speaking" or "quoting" the Word of God. Jesus went willingly to the cross. We have a record of what Jesus said back in eternity with God His Father about the physical body that He would assume so that He could come to this earth and offer it up on the cross. Here it is:
Hebrews 10:5-10
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“ Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them ” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
oh yea n just one last question, how EXACTLY did the holy spirit COME ONTO marie? tell me the mechanics of it
Leonheartmm, can I say this without offending you? Be very careful what you say or (possibly) insinuate about the Holy Spirit. (That is all I want to say about that, for your sake.)
Mark 3:29
but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
The Bible does not reveal the mechanics of it. I could extrapolate, but it would be pure conjecture. Why do you ask? Is anything to difficult for God? Anyhoo, here is what the Bible does reveal about the subject under discussion.
Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
Glory to God! Did you see that leonheartmm? The Word of the living God (i.e. the Word of YHWH) states that the POWER of the Highest overshadowed Mary. You do understand that God is Almighty don't you? That means that nothing is impossible with Him.
Matthew 19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Re: Re: Can you handle the Truth?
Originally posted by Naz
Because not everyone believes in the Bible (or your protestant view of it), and you should respect their choice not to.
I know that not everyone believes in the Bible. It was a question designed to arrest your attention not elicit a response per se.
My view? The Bible is God's Book what does "my view" have to do with it?
Originally posted by AngryManatee
I'm of the opinion that there aren't answers to everything. I don't try to explain the things I witness with a book just so I have an answer, because I choose to try and find out how something occurs/ happens/ works.
What makes evolution occur (supposedly)? What is the agent that causes organisms to undergo evolution (supposedly)?