Can you handle the Truth?

Started by Alfheim432 pages
Originally posted by Storm
Because everything in the scriptures requires interpretation. No one takes everything in the Bible in the exact same literal manner. You pick and choose, deciding how to best interpret and implement what you read based upon your beliefs, prejudices, and cultural context.

True but as far as I know the Bible was originally supposed to be intepreted metaphorically. Obvoulsy people intepret things in different ways but alot of fundamentalism isnt really an "opinion". What I mean is that they know deep down inside that they are full of **** they are just creating a reality for themselves to make them feel better about themselves.

Originally posted by Storm

There is no universal truth, there is only your truth.

Yeahhhh but im sure there are somethings that some or alot of people would agree on.

Re: Can you handle the Truth?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?

Oh dear God !

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well, what makes you say that it is my belief that I hold to be true as opposed to it being the Truth?

Because it is your belief... 😐 What makes you think that your beliefs are the truth as opposed to other people's beliefs?

Originally posted by Storm
There is no universal truth, there is only your truth.

A universal truth in itself.

There is universal truth.

Re: Can you handle the Truth?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?

Because they know the bible is not the truth

Originally posted by Strangelove
Again, you refuse to answer my question. You assert that Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, and anything else, but you have yet to say why you believe that, which was in fact my question.

You and I believe in different truths. What makes your "truth" more valid than mine?

Strangelove, I have not refused to answer your question. I have repeatedly told you why I believe that Jesus is the Truth. But I gave you a practical way for YOU to do the same. You must first take a step of faith towards Jesus to know whether He is Truth. You cannot remain where you are (in terms of your belief system continuing in the direction that it is going) and expect to experience any change. You must do something different than you have done up to this point in your life. So, how do I know that Jesus is the Truth and that the Bible is true? Well, I will reiterate what I have already told you in previous posts:

I did what Jesus said do in order to be saved. I took a step of faith beginning with reading the Bible (particularly the Book of Acts and the Gospel According to John).

Second, I did what Jesus said do with respect to being saved:

1) I admitted that I am a sinner and unrighteous before God.
2) I repented (i.e. I changed my ways and turned away from my sins)
3) I confessed that Jesus Christ is Lord and that God has raised Him from the dead.
4) In short, I asked Jesus Christ to save me from my sins.

Once I took these steps of faith, I became aware of Who Jesus Christ truly is. Jesus revealed to me Who He is, and He revealed the veracity of His Word (the Bible) to me as well.

But you would do well to read and heed everything that I have already written. For therein lies the answers to your questions. You must do (something) before Jesus will make Himself real to You. You cannot be passive. If you truly want to know if the Bible is true then do what Jesus said do. You ask how do I know that Jesus is the Truth, and I have already told you how I know: I did what He said do and He did the rest. But Jesus requires some effort on your part Strangelove. He requires faith from you (which is trusting in Someone or something that you cannot perceive with your senses). Once you take this step of faith Jesus will meet you the rest of the way. This is how I know, and why I believe that Jesus is the Truth and that the Bible is true.

Below is a Biblical example of God requiring His people to make a commitment (i.e. a step of faith) before He came on the scene (i.e. showed up as it were).

Joshua 3:7-8, 12-13
7 And the LORD said to Joshua, “This day I will begin to exalt you in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. 8 You shall command the priests who bear the ark of the covenant, saying, ‘When you have come to the edge of the water of the Jordan, you shall stand in the Jordan.’”

12 Now therefore, take for yourselves twelve men from the tribes of Israel, one man from every tribe. 13 And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests who bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of the Jordan, that the waters of the Jordan shall be cut off, the waters that come down from upstream, and they shall stand as a heap.”

God told Joshua (Moses' successor) to command the priests who bore (carried) the ark of the covenant to in essence take a step of faith. Before God would part the waters of the Jordan river the priests would have to step into the water (first). Once they made the commitment to get into the water then God would cause the water to separate on either side of them, creating a path for them to cross over on dry land.

Strangelove, it appears that you want the answer to your questions without committing to finding out the answer to your questions. You want the waters in your life (so to speak) to part without taking that step of faith that Jesus requires you to take. But is that how anything works? Most people must take a step of faith in many areas of their lives before things work for them. Most guys must take a step of faith for example in the dating game (you, Strangelove, are perhaps an exception, again I do not know). They see an interesting, attractive woman that they want to date, but they realize that they must do something first: they must talk to her and eventually ask her out on a date (with no guarantee that she will accept). With regard to applying for a job most of us understand (almost implicitly) that we must complete and submit an application and/or a resume first, before we can even be considered for employment. This too requires faith on our part--first (I am not trying to be facetious but, again, you may be an exception in this case as well). But we do all of this without any promise of being hired. Finally, Strangelove, can you walk up to an atm machine at a bank and expect it to give you any cash without some effort (or commitment) on your part? Case in point, the first time that you used an atm machine required faith on your part (I am assuming that you have used one). You had to (first) give the atm machine your atm card, right? You inserted your atm card and guess what happened: the card seemingly disappeared. You gave up something (first) without any guarantee that you would get it back (I am talking about the first time that you used the atm machine. You know now that if you use your atm card that you will get it back, but you did not know that experientially the very first time). The point: I know that Jesus is Truth and that the Bible is true because I made and effort and commitment to know this. I took a step of faith (which is the only way that you or anyone else will discover the Truth) and that step led to another step. Each step that I took towards Jesus and to the pursuit of Happyness...uh...I mean toward knowing whether or not Jesus and the Bible were true (isn’t that the name of a recent movie?), brought me more revelation. Jesus is still revealing the Truth of Himself to me. Jesus is still confirming the veracity of His Word to me. But it took some effort on my part. I was just like you. I questioned the Word (the Bible) and doubted that it was given by inspiration of God--until...I did all this doubting and carrying until the day I decided to take a step of faith. To think of all that time that I wasted doubting, questioning, wondering, and wavering back and forth. That time could have been spent more productively because I will never get that time back. So, what say you Strangelove?

Does this answer your question Strangelove? If not then re-read the post because I am certain that the answers to your questions are here but I have perhaps not presented them to you in the way that you evisioned or expected me to. (Hey, you cannot say that I am not making an effort to answer your questions).

Originally posted by Storm
Because everything in the scriptures requires interpretation. No one takes everything in the Bible in the exact same literal manner. You pick and choose, deciding how to best interpret and implement what you read based upon your beliefs, prejudices, and cultural context. There is no universal truth, there is only your truth.

I beg to differ with you Storm. First off I want to say that I respect your comments and your mind. However, I believe that truth is absolute (you refer to it as universal). As a result, I believe that there is only one correct interpretation of the Scriptures. (Have I discovered this correct interpretation? This remains to be seen). Just as there is only one correct answer to the question, "Which way is North?" No one argues, disputes, or complains that North is upward and not southward. No one argues that East is not West. There is a unanimous (absolute and universal) consensus or understanding that North means upward, South means downward, East means what it means and West means what it denotes. People all over the world recognize these directions as universal and absolute. Stop and think about this: when was the last time someone disputed with you about which way was North or South, East, or West? So, similarly Storm just as directions are absolute (there is only one North, one South, one East, and one West, there is only one correct interpretation of Scripture. Moreover, this leads me to state confidently that there is only one Truth as well. Since I believe God (Jesus Christ) is that Truth, this automatically excludes all other gods who claim to be the true god or path to the true God. I apologize if this appears dogmatic, insensitive, narrow-minded, and close-minded, but it is what I believe. I believe in absolutes but I also subscribe to the belief that within these absolutes there is the possibility for mercy and grace in certain situations and under certain circumstances. Hey, Jesus Christ made the most narrow-minded statement ever. Many people have a problem with what Jesus said because it sounds close-minded. Jesus said,

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Jesus is either
1)mentally ill
2) lying
3) joking
4) or what He said that He is, the only way to God the Father.

There is no evidence or reason to suggest that Jesus was mentally ill. Lying is a sin and the Bible states that Jesus never sinned. We have no record in the Bible of Jesus ever telling any jokes. So the only alternative is that Jesus spoke truly.

There are no other alternatives.

Re: Re: Can you handle the Truth?

Originally posted by muslimscholar
Because they know the bible is not the truth

👆

Re: Can you handle the Truth?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?

Because you do not know what the truth is.

The Truth according to the bible says that you can't eat a chameleon.The Truth according to the bible requires modification

Originally posted by {{QS}}
The Truth according to the bible says that you can't eat a chameleon.The Truth according to the bible requires modification

Not again..._a

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me"

Jesus is either
1)mentally ill
2) lying
3) joking
4) or what He said that He is, the only way to God the Father.

There is no evidence or reason to suggest that Jesus was mentally ill. Lying is a sin and the Bible states that Jesus never sinned. We have no record in the Bible of Jesus ever telling any jokes. So the only alternative is that Jesus spoke truly.

There are no other alternatives.

It is possible from a secular position that there is no "God the Father" and Christ was deluded in the same manner that the secular position believes you to be.

Given this, for anyone who does not believe the "Truth" that you do, you must first provide proper evidence of such truth. You have never understood this, and as such you evidence your disdain for those not holding your particular beliefs.

Why anyone continues speaking with you is beyond me. I have merely responded to try once again to show you an error in your behaviors, as well as attempting to clarify their question.

Here is a quote that often applies and I often forget as I get embroiled in debates:

Titus 3: 9
9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Why can you not handle the Truth JIA?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?
Because it is the basis of everything that they believe in and I don't think they want someone coming in and telling them their interpretation of the truth as it pertains to the bible when their interpretation may be much different, especially if you're just slamming the Bible because you don't believe in any of it at all.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Who's to say that my truth isn't the truth? Why should I chose yours over my own.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Strangelove, I have not refused to answer your question. I have repeatedly told you why I believe that Jesus is the Truth. But I gave you a practical way for YOU to do the same. You must first take a step of faith towards Jesus to know whether He is Truth. You cannot remain where you are (in terms of your belief system continuing in the direction that it is going) and expect to experience any change. You must do something different than you have done up to this point in your life. So, how do I know that Jesus is the Truth and that the Bible is true? Well, I will reiterate what I have already told you in previous posts:

I did what Jesus said do in order to be saved. I took a step of faith beginning with reading the Bible (particularly the Book of Acts and the Gospel According to John).

Second, I did what Jesus said do with respect to being saved:

1) I admitted that I am a sinner and unrighteous before God.
2) I repented (i.e. I changed my ways and turned away from my sins)
3) I confessed that Jesus Christ is Lord and that God has raised Him from the dead.
4) In short, I asked Jesus Christ to save me from my sins.

Once I took these steps of faith, I became aware of Who Jesus Christ truly is. Jesus revealed to me Who He is, and He revealed the veracity of His Word (the Bible) to me as well.

But you would do well to read and heed everything that I have already written. For therein lies the answers to your questions. You must do (something) before Jesus will make Himself real to You. You cannot be passive. If you truly want to know if the Bible is true then do what Jesus said do. You ask how do I know that Jesus is the Truth, and I have already told you how I know: I did what He said do and He did the rest. But Jesus requires some effort on your part Strangelove. He requires faith from you (which is trusting in Someone or something that you cannot perceive with your senses). Once you take this step of faith Jesus will meet you the rest of the way. This is how I know, and why I believe that Jesus is the Truth and that the Bible is true.

Below is a Biblical example of God requiring His people to make a commitment (i.e. a step of faith) before He came on the scene (i.e. showed up as it were).

[B]Joshua 3:7-8, 12-13
7 And the LORD said to Joshua, “This day I will begin to exalt you in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. 8 You shall command the priests who bear the ark of the covenant, saying, ‘When you have come to the edge of the water of the Jordan, you shall stand in the Jordan.’”

12 Now therefore, take for yourselves twelve men from the tribes of Israel, one man from every tribe. 13 And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests who bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of the Jordan, that the waters of the Jordan shall be cut off, the waters that come down from upstream, and they shall stand as a heap.”

God told Joshua (Moses' successor) to command the priests who bore (carried) the ark of the covenant to in essence take a step of faith. Before God would part the waters of the Jordan river the priests would have to step into the water (first). Once they made the commitment to get into the water then God would cause the water to separate on either side of them, creating a path for them to cross over on dry land.

Strangelove, it appears that you want the answer to your questions without committing to finding out the answer to your questions. You want the waters in your life (so to speak) to part without taking that step of faith that Jesus requires you to take. But is that how anything works? Most people must take a step of faith in many areas of their lives before things work for them. Most guys must take a step of faith for example in the dating game (you, Strangelove, are perhaps an exception, again I do not know). They see an interesting, attractive woman that they want to date, but they realize that they must do something first: they must talk to her and eventually ask her out on a date (with no guarantee that she will accept). With regard to applying for a job most of us understand (almost implicitly) that we must complete and submit an application and/or a resume first, before we can even be considered for employment. This too requires faith on our part--first (I am not trying to be facetious but, again, you may be an exception in this case as well). But we do all of this without any promise of being hired. Finally, Strangelove, can you walk up to an atm machine at a bank and expect it to give you any cash without some effort (or commitment) on your part? Case in point, the first time that you used an atm machine required faith on your part (I am assuming that you have used one). You had to (first) give the atm machine your atm card, right? You inserted your atm card and guess what happened: the card seemingly disappeared. You gave up something (first) without any guarantee that you would get it back (I am talking about the first time that you used the atm machine. You know now that if you use your atm card that you will get it back, but you did not know that experientially the very first time). The point: I know that Jesus is Truth and that the Bible is true because I made and effort and commitment to know this. I took a step of faith (which is the only way that you or anyone else will discover the Truth) and that step led to another step. Each step that I took towards Jesus and to the pursuit of Happyness...uh...I mean toward knowing whether or not Jesus and the Bible were true (isn’t that the name of a recent movie?), brought me more revelation. Jesus is still revealing the Truth of Himself to me. Jesus is still confirming the veracity of His Word to me. But it took some effort on my part. I was just like you. I questioned the Word (the Bible) and doubted that it was given by inspiration of God--until...I did all this doubting and carrying until the day I decided to take a step of faith. To think of all that time that I wasted doubting, questioning, wondering, and wavering back and forth. That time could have been spent more productively because I will never get that time back. So, what say you Strangelove?

Does this answer your question Strangelove? If not then re-read the post because I am certain that the answers to your questions are here but I have perhaps not presented them to you in the way that you evisioned or expected me to. (Hey, you cannot say that I am not making an effort to answer your questions). [/B]

No, you are not answering my question at all. You say you are, but all I see is you asserting that Jesus is in fact the Truth, without explaining at all why you believe it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Who's to say that my truth isn't the truth? Why should I chose yours over my own.

I think its pretty safe to say that any "truth" an individual holds is not in any way representitive of the real "truth".

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Jesus is either
1)mentally ill
2) lying
3) joking
4) or what He said that He is, the only way to God the Father.

There is no evidence or reason to suggest that Jesus was mentally ill. Lying is a sin and the Bible states that Jesus never sinned. We have no record in the Bible of Jesus ever telling any jokes. So the only alternative is that Jesus spoke truly.

There are no other alternatives. [/B]

You forgot
5) there is no physical evidence to suggest that he was the messiah, nor evidence to suggest that your interpretation of the "Truth" is the correct one.

Originally posted by Regret

[deleted text]

Given this, for anyone who does not believe the "Truth" that you do, you must first provide proper evidence of such truth. You have never understood this, and as such you evidence your disdain for those not holding your particular beliefs.

[deleted text]

Well, I have read everything that you have written Regret and I understand what you are saying. However, nowhere in the Bible did Jesus say, "Go into all the world and prove the gospel" or "Go into all the world and provide evidence for the gospel." Can you provide any Scriptural support for why you believe that I should as you put it,

"...first provide proper evidence of such truth."?

I fully understood that many people no matter what you tell them are just not going to believe the gospel. Just because I don't give up does not mean that I do not understand that. I honestly do not believe that I disdain those who do not believe the gospel. The gospel, the Bible, and the truth that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world is not (nor has it ever been) my particular beliefs. Like Jesus told the Jews at the Feast in Jerusalem, Regret I tell you, my doctrine is not mine, but His Who sent me. The message that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him is not my doctrine, Regret, sir, but Jesus Christ's. But I do see where you are coming from I just do not subscribe to it.

John 7:16
Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

Finally, Regret the Scripture reference that you provided does not apply to me for a number of reasons. Here is what you quoted:

Titus 3: 9
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

The apostle Paul modifies the terms that he instructs Timothy to avoid and thus putting them into proper context. Paul says to avoid foolish questions. My questions are not foolish because they are centered on God's Word. Second, Paul says to avoid genealogies. There are numerous genealogies recorded in the Bible. Do you honestly believe that God put those genealogies there for no reason? I have not dealt with any genealogies but the point is if I did I would be just in doing so because I do not believe that they are in the Bible just because or that they are just superfluous or incidental. Third, Paul says to avoid contentions. Again, the context is foolish contentions. I don't contend foolishly, I make sure that everything that I present for discussion is Scripturally tenable.

Regret, are you aware of the fact that the Bible states that we are to contend for the faith?

Jude 1:3
Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

So contention in itself is not wrong, we are simply admonished not to contend foolishly. Besides, the context is referring to contentions about the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses), not to general, Bible-based contentions. So, contention is not bad if it is done correctly and peaceably as I do. Finally, Paul mentions strivings about the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses). Again, I do not fit the description because I am not striving number one and number two I am not talking about the Law of Moses. Most of what I present is derived from the New Testament. So, I will end on this note:

Colossians 4:6
Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

Originally posted by Strangelove
No, you are not answering my question at all. You say you are, but all I see is you asserting that Jesus is in fact the Truth, without explaining at all [b]why you believe it. [/B]

I have already told you why. I did what Jesus said do, and the Truth was revealed to me. The moment that I took the step of faith to research the Bible concerning Who Jesus is, and then do what Jesus said do, Jesus revealed the reality of Who He is to me. The Holy Spirit caused me to become born again and then He came to dwell in my spirit. The Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that Jesus is Who He says He is. Now I know that I know that Jesus is Who the Bible says that He is because the Holy Spirit enables me to believe the gospel.

This is why I believe that Jesus is the Mashiyach (i.e. Messiah or Anointed One). Do you understand? The Holy Spirit (Who dwells in my spirit) bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God, that the Bible is true, and that Jesus is Who He says that He is. This is the why behind the what.

Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

But I had to take a step of faith towards believing this first, then the Holy Spirit came to live on the inside of my spirit to complete the process. Now my faith about Who Jesus is has not only been strengthened, but it has become unmovable and unshakeable.

Strangelove, I believe because the Holy Spirit has revealed the Truth to me. The Truth of the gospel has to be revealed to you (once it is you will have no problem understanding why I believe or even why you believe). Most believers are not necessarily conscious of why they believe. Many of them are not aware that the Holy Spirit is the Person Who has revealed Jesus Christ to them, enabling them to believe. The Holy Spirit testifies to the world about Who Jesus is. But many people are not in a position to hear Him because they have not made an effort to know the Truth. Read:

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth Who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

So, I believe because the Holy Spirit has revealed Jesus to me, this is why I believe. For without the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit residing in my spirit I would be incapable of believing the gospel. Apart from the Holy Spirit the gospel, the Bible, and Jesus dying on a cross to save the world from their sins makes no sense at all. But...the Holy Spirit does live in my spirit and consequently the gospel makes perfect sense. The Holy Spirit guides me into all Truth.

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

PEEPS................... could we just ignore this thread, so that, THAT idiot can talk to himself and not annoy us????