Can you handle the Truth?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I am talking about when "good" or "bad" things happen. People say life is unfair, but that is simply a perspective. People are hurt, not because they deserve it, or because they brought the suffering/tragedy upon themselves, but because things happen without our permission...and our suffering is due to the lack of ability to accept the event.

You don't truly know if everything in Nature has a purpose or justification. That is simply how you see it based on observation. A meteor hits the Earth, or any other planet, and wipes out all life. What was the purpose ? What was the justification ?

The cause is quite clear, the meteor and Earth crossed paths. But where is the purpose ? Where is the justification ? They're may be none. Their might not even be a point...it just happened.

Would everyone stop giving JIA attention? He's a stupid troll, and I doubt he believes Jesus or God even exist! He'll go away eventually.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What is your definition of "law" with respect to your post?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Everything happens through a cause. I never said otherwise, and you are either continuing to misunderstand my words, or you are purposely defining my point to your own terms in effort to best this debate.

I take it it's the former...when I say "just happens", i mean an event happens without purpose or justification. Nature does not need our permission to act..it does on its own. Purpose and justification are terms that WE attribute to what we see, just like when we attribute chance to uncertainty.

Purpose and justification is a Christian idea. But we are in the wrong thread.

Originally posted by Regret
You are then referencing the moral nature of the occurrence and not really the purpose and justification? I understand, but I think that appeals to such are improperly advised. It is assuming that morality and mercy can somehow impede the laws governing existence.

If you take a look around you will see that a lot of children are born with horrible diseases, and are born into unfair circumstances.

Innocent people are infected with HIV, or develop Cancer, or have some other life-threatening or extremely uncomfortable illness.

One will argue that these people deserve it...others will argue that it is thier karma, or that they are entirely responsible for everything that happens to them..the good and the bad. Others will argue that if they had God in thier life, none of this would happen.

The truth, atleast as I see it, is that there is no moral reason for why these things happen. They just do. I am not ruling out cause and effect, cause and effect have obvious workings here...my point is that there is no point to all of it.

Someone does not develop cancer because they deserve it, or because they have to experience it, or whatever. WE make up our own reasons in order to comfort us as to why these things happen....

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Purpose and justification is a Christian idea. But we are in the wrong thread.

But THAT is what I am saying....Purpose and Justification do not exist with every action, especially in the actions of nature.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
But THAT is what I am saying....Purpose and Justification do not exist with every action, especially in the actions of nature.

But why even say that? I thought you where telling me that Karma is wrong because there is no purpose or justification in nature. I was telling you that Karma does not say that there is.

Originally posted by Regret
This is inaccurate I think. The purpose of anything is to fulfill the dictates of the law that predicates it. It is justified by the law that brought it into existence. When religious people speak of these things they also grant them more meaning than they actually have, improperly attacking science with improper terminology and understanding. Everything in nature has purpose and justification, and nothing occurs by chance, at least in science.

Main Entry: law
Pronunciation: 'lo
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lagu, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse log law; akin to Old English licgan to lie -- more at LIE
1 a (1) : [deleted text] : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority

Laws don't bring anything into existence as such (they are abstract/impersonal). In the manner that you used the word "law" Regret laws are simply mechanisms whereby things or people are governed. So, laws don't create per se they simply govern or impact (depending on the circumstances) that which has already been created.

😎

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
If you take a look around you will see that a lot of children are born with horrible diseases, and are born into unfair circumstances.

Innocent people are infected with HIV, or develop Cancer, or have some other life-threatening or extremely uncomfortable illness.

One will argue that these people deserve it...others will argue that it is thier karma, or that they are entirely responsible for everything that happens to them..the good and the bad. Others will argue that if they had God in thier life, none of this would happen.

The truth, atleast as I see it, is that there is no moral reason for why these things happen. [b]They just do. I am not ruling out cause and effect, cause and effect have obvious workings here...my point is that there is no point to all of it.

Someone does not develop cancer because they deserve it, or because they have to experience it, or whatever. WE make up our own reasons in order to comfort us as to why these things happen.... [/B]

Originally posted by lord xyz
Would everyone stop giving JIA attention? He's a stupid troll, and I doubt he believes Jesus or God even exist! He'll go away eventually.

Stupid troll?

Why do you doubt whether I believe that Jesus or the Father exist?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Main Entry: [B]law
Pronunciation: 'lo
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lagu, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse log law; akin to Old English licgan to lie -- more at LIE
1 a (1) : [deleted text] : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority

Laws don't bring anything into existence as such (they are abstract/impersonal). In the manner that you used the word "law" Regret laws are simply mechanisms whereby things or people are governed. So, laws don't create per se they simply govern or impact (depending on the circumstances) that which has already been created.

😎 [/B]

"God creates" would be a law.
"1 part hydrogen 2 parts oxygen is water" would be a law.

I never stated laws created anything, they describe and govern behaviors. You obviously do not have a grasp on the concept so don't bother arguing it. My statement stands accurate even in the limited scope of your definition.

This part of the definition is not accurate btw: "prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority"

An atheist does not recognize the laws in the Bible, thus they are not laws by your definition.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali

[deleted text]

If you think of the Universe, Time and Space, as linear, then yes it would be confusing to understand that life emerged from non life. But I think of the Universe, Time and Space, as a circle. No beginning, No End. Just a series of beginnings and endings.

[deleted text]

This belief/viewpoint violates the laws of science, specifically the law of cause and effect. The “Socratic Law of Causality (i.e. the Law of Cause and Effect)" states that everything happens for a reason. The Big Crunch Theory fails to answer how (i.e. what force or power) is the cause of or for the Big Crunch. An eternal Big Crunch is unscientific.

Originally posted by Regret

"...I never stated laws created anything...."

Originally posted by Regret
"...It is justified by the law that brought it into existence...."

"Create"..."bring into existence"...what is the difference? I am going somewhere with this that is why I harp on what you wrote Regret.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
This belief/viewpoint violates the laws of science, specifically the law of cause and effect. The “Socratic Law of Causality (i.e. the Law of Cause and Effect)" states that everything happens for a reason. The Big Crunch Theory fails to answer how (i.e. what force or power) is the cause of or for the Big Crunch. An eternal Big Crunch is unscientific.

The theory do answer what would be the cause of the Big Crunch, it is the gravitational force.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
The theory do answer what would be the cause of the Big Crunch, it is the gravitational force.

Atlantis001, can you provide a scientific answer for what the cause is for the gravitational force?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
This belief/viewpoint violates the laws of science, specifically the law of cause and effect. The “Socratic Law of Causality (i.e. the Law of Cause and Effect)" states that everything happens for a reason. The Big Crunch Theory fails to answer how (i.e. what force or power) is the cause of or for the Big Crunch. An eternal Big Crunch is unscientific.

Creationism violates the Laws of Science in every way bro, yet you still beleive in it.

There is nothing in reality to suggest that everything happens for a reason. That is something we tell ourselves to cope with the difficulties of life.

The Big Bang is the cause, Universe is cause and effect, Big Crunch is effect of the universe and cause of another Big Bang.

Matter and Energy cannot be created or destroyed...first law of physics. That means there is NO BEGINNING and NO END. Matter cannot just appear or be created (even though you beleive God created it all). God creating the universe violates the First Law of Physics. Therefore, logically, that idea must be false.

The idea of an Eternal Cycle of Big Bangs makes far more sense than if an all powerful character created all of it out of loneliness....

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Atlantis001, can you provide a scientific answer for what the cause is for the gravitational force?

Gravitational waves and gravitons , but what causes the gravitational force is not important. Be the cause of gravity what it is... it is still the gravitational force the cause of the Big Crunch.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Gravitational waves and gravitons , but what causes the gravitational force is not important. Be the cause of gravity what it is... it is still the gravitational force the cause of the Big Crunch.

The cause is the curvature of space-time. 😄

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Creationism violates the Laws of Science in every way bro, yet you still beleive in it.

There is nothing in reality to suggest that everything happens for a reason. That is something we tell ourselves to cope with the difficulties of life.

The Big Bang is the cause, Universe is cause and effect, Big Crunch is effect of the universe and cause of another Big Bang.

[b]Matter and Energy cannot be created or destroyed...first law of physics. That means there is NO BEGINNING and NO END. Matter cannot just appear or be created (even though you beleive God created it all). God creating the universe violates the First Law of Physics. Therefore, logically, that idea must be false.

The idea of an Eternal Cycle of Big Bangs makes far more sense than if an all powerful character created all of it out of loneliness.... [/B]

You are absolutely correct! I do believe it, which means that I am taking what the Bible says by faith. That is the difference. I take it by faith initially, then one day when I meet God face to face He can show me exactly how it all happened.

Again, the Big Bang contradicts the Law of Cause and Effect so what you are telling me is that you believe in the Big Crunch Theory by faith? Right?

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Gravitational waves and gravitons , but what causes the gravitational force is not important. Be the cause of gravity what it is... it is still the gravitational force the cause of the Big Crunch.

So are you conceding that you cannot at least give an informal, theoretical explanation for what causes gravitational force? To me this is very important because if this cannot be answered then I fail to grasp why you and so many other people believe it (unless you accept this by faith).