Can you handle the Truth?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are absolutely correct! I do believe it, which means that I am taking what the Bible says by faith. That is the difference. I take it by faith initially, then one day when I meet God face to face He can show me exactly how it all happened.

I am not going to critisize you for choosing your Faith and Beleif. I am not going to even critisize the fact that you ignore the fact that Matter and Energy cannot be created or destroyed, and choose to beleive that matter was created by the God you worship.

That is your right and decision.

I am however, going to question how you expect other people to beleive what you beleive when you cannot provide them with fact. I know you beleive through Faith, I know you decide to stay loyal to who you beleive is the Father even in the face of contradicting information.

But I don't understand how you expect others to do the same. There is almost nothing in reality that can support the existance of the Biblical God. There are so many facts and discoveries out there that conflict with the teachings of the Bible.

I mean do you really think we are all ignorant or just evil, because we don't beleive the same thing ? I beleived in God for YEARS JIA...i think you are forgetting that. I grew up Christian, and prayed to God ALL THE TIME....yet I never met him, never seen him, never heard from him..atleast not in a way that I could understand or know it was him...so I gave up.

I stopped beleiving because it just didn't make sense anymore...for other reasons as well, but it just seemed kinda pointless. I don't wanna go into it, because i am trying to avoid further argument, but I think you get the idea.

So my question to you is how do you expect other people to beleive...ESPECIALLY people who TRIED living a Christian Lifestyle and saw no point in doing so ?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Again, the Big Bang contradicts the Law of Cause and Effect so what you are telling me is that you believe in the Big Crunch Theory by faith? Right?

No it doesn't...Not if you beleive in a Cycle of Big Bangs and Big Crunches, and since matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, then it would make sense.

I do not beleive in it by Faith....Faith is beleif without knowledge. I am not saying Faith is beleif without support, so please do not misunderstand.

But there is much evidense to back up the Big Bang. The Big Crunch Theory is as supported, but if you consider the facts:

1) -matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed

2)-every object in the universe is moving further and further away from each other, thus the universe is expanding

3) -massive stars eventually collapse under thier own gravity, thus causing super novas

**************

Then the Big Crunch Theory makes Perfect Sense

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Again, the Big Bang contradicts the Law of Cause and Effect so what you are telling me is that you believe in the Big Crunch Theory by faith? Right?

The Big Bang theory is vastly different from the Big Crunch Theory. Big bang is the origins of the universe as we know it, Big Crunch is one of 3 viable theories for the end of the universe, and with the recent discoveries involving dark energy, it seems to be the least likely.

Why does the Big Bang violate the law of cause and effect?

Originally posted by inimalist
The Big Bang theory is vastly different from the Big Crunch Theory. Big bang is the origins of the universe as we know it, Big Crunch is one of 3 viable theories for the end of the universe, and with the recent discoveries involving dark energy, it seems to be the least likely.

Why does the Big Bang violate the law of cause and effect?

What is the cause of the Big Bang? There must be a reason or cause for why the Big Bang purportedly occurred. Besides, the Big Bang defies and contradicts another law: Newton's Laws of Motion motion. You claim that matter can neither be created nor destroyed (one of the Laws of Thermodynamics) then what caused this aggregate matter to explode? This clearly violates the the Laws of Motion--as well as the Laws of Cause and Effect.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What is the cause of the Big Bang?

Many conclude that the Big Bang is a result of the Big Crunch of the Universe that preceded it. Time is not linear, it is a circle.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There must be a reason or cause for why the Big Bang purportedly occurred. Besides, the Big Bang defies and contradicts another law: Newton's Laws of Motion motion. You claim that matter can neither be created nor destroyed (one of the Laws of Thermodynamics) then what caused this aggregate matter to explode? This clearly violates the the Laws of Motion--as well as the Laws of Cause and Effect.

Matter exploding does not equal matter being destroyed. Matter can only change, not be created or destroyed, it was always there.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali

"...I am however, going to question how you expect other people to beleive what you beleive when you cannot provide them with fact. I know you beleive through Faith, I know you decide to stay loyal to who you beleive is the Father even in the face of contradicting information...."

Well, simple: one must first believe without seeing. Once this has been accomplished over a period of time one will see what one has initially taken by faith. You see, to the believer believing is seeing (not the other way around).

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What is the cause of the Big Bang? There must be a reason or cause for why the Big Bang purportedly occurred. Besides, the Big Bang defies and contradicts another law: Newton's Laws of Motion motion. You claim that matter can neither be created nor destroyed (one of the Laws of Thermodynamics) then what caused this aggregate matter to explode? This clearly violates the the Laws of Motion--as well as the Laws of Cause and Effect.

The catalyst was gravity, which is the physical force that attracts particles to each other.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well, simple: one must first believe without seeing. Once this has been accomplished over a period of time one will see what one has initially taken by faith. You see, to the believer believing is seeing (not the other way around).

I know what Faith is, JIA, that is not my question.

My question was how do you expect people to choose to live by Faith, when living by understanding and knowledge works just fine for them ?

I am not convinced that I need to be the same religion as you. I have been Christian for 18 years of my life, and I will not go back. It didn't work for me. It may work for you, but it didn't work for me. Do not tell me I haven't tried hard enough, because I dedicated a good 10 years of my life trying to understand my Faith, trying to live a life where I beleive instead of see...it didn't work for me.

The Bible does not work for me, it just doesnt. I am Buddhist now, and it works much better for me. I feel stronger and more content with life and people now, then I had before as a Christian.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali

Many conclude that the Big Bang is a result of the Big Crunch of the Universe that preceded it. Time is not linear, it is a circle.

Matter exploding does not equal matter being destroyed. Matter can only change, not be created or destroyed, it was always there.

"Many conclude that the Big Bang is a result of the Big Crunch of the Universe that preceded it. Time is not linear, it is a circle."

Again, this violates the Law of Cause and Effect. Time (especially in the material world that we live in) consists of a past, present, and a future. There is no eternity in this universe (eternity is a Biblical idea and reality). I said all that to say this: since time can only be measured or better yet expressed in one of those three terms, that means that the universe had a beginning. That beginning had to have a cause in keeping with the Law of Cause and Effect.

"Matter exploding does not equal matter being destroyed. Matter can only change, not be created or destroyed, it was always there."

The notion that matter went from a state of rest (aggregate mass or matter) to a state of motion (the product of a Big Bang explosion) is what violates Newton's Laws of Motion. Furthermore, matter couldn't have always been there because this contradicts the Law of Cause and Effect. Do you follow me Goddess Kali?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So are you conceding that you cannot at least give an informal, theoretical explanation for what causes gravitational force? To me this is very important because if this cannot be answered then I fail to grasp why you and so many other people believe it (unless you accept this by faith).

The cause is gravitational waves and gravitons.

But the problem is this one : You said that the Big Crunch theory fails to give a cause for the Big Crunch. It gives, the cause is the gravitational force. The gravitational force would push together all the matter in the universe in a single point causing the Big Crunch.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
The cause is gravitational waves and gravitons.

But the problem is this one : You said that the Big Crunch theory fails to give a cause for the Big Crunch. It gives, the cause is the gravitational force. The gravitational force would push together all the matter in the universe in a single point causing the Big Crunch.

Atlantis001, buddy, pal, comrade, compadre, companero you are missing my point. What I want you to do is explain what caused the gravitational waves and gravitons to exist (i.e. where did they come from)? In science everything has a cause (or at least that is what the Law of Cause and Effect states).

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I know what Faith is, JIA, that is not my question.

My question was how do you expect people to choose to live by Faith, when living by understanding and knowledge works just fine for them ?

I am not convinced that I need to be the same religion as you. I have been Christian for 18 years of my life, and I will not go back. It didn't work for me. It may work for you, but it didn't work for me. Do not tell me I haven't tried hard enough, because I dedicated a good 10 years of my life trying to understand my Faith, trying to live a life where I beleive instead of see...it didn't work for me.

The Bible does not work for me, it just doesnt. I am Buddhist now, and it works much better for me. I feel stronger and more content with life and people now, then I had before as a Christian.

Actually, what I expect is for people to think logically and deductively about what they claim to believe with regard to the Big Bang Theory, Big Crunch Theory, and the Theory of Evolution. Those theories are unreasonably deficient at explaining the origin of the universe and life--even theoretically.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
"Many conclude that the Big Bang is a result of the Big Crunch of the Universe that preceded it. Time is not linear, it is a circle."

Again, this violates the Law of Cause and Effect. Time (especially in the material world that we live in) consists of a past, present, and a future. There is no eternity in this universe (eternity is a Biblical idea and reality). I said all that to say this: since time can only be measured or better yet expressed in one of those three terms, that means that the universe had a beginning. That beginning had to have a cause in keeping with the Law of Cause and Effect.

"Matter exploding does not equal matter being destroyed. Matter can only change, not be created or destroyed, it was always there."

The notion that matter went from a state of rest (aggregate mass or matter) to a state of motion (the product of a Big Bang explosion) is what violates Newton's Laws of Motion. Furthermore, matter couldn't have always been there because this contradicts the Law of Cause and Effect. Do you follow me Goddess Kali?

1) There is no proof that present and past exist anywhere other than in our perceptions. Past is a memory not an existing force. Future isn't born yet, future is a change of present.

Some people see time as a line, others see it as a circle. Others do not beleive Time exists, that time is simply our recognition of motion and change.

2) I understand your point, and it's a good and logical one, however, if Time is a circle, and if Eternity does exist, then cause and effect is a cycle....not a beginning and end. Cause and effect does not necessarily equal beginning and end. Beginning and End are absolute terms. Cause and Effect is not black and white like begining and end

Secondly, A Big Bang/Big Crunch theorty does not violate Newton's Laws of Motion, because the factors that would provoke movement are Gravitational forces and Heat.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Atlantis001, buddy, pal, comrade, compadre, companero you are missing my point. What I want you to do is explain what caused the gravitational waves and gravitons to exist (i.e. where did they come from)? In science everything has a cause (or at least that is what the Law of Cause and Effect states).

Originally posted by debbiejo
Ummm all matter is simply energy oriented in such a way that it forms a bend in the space-time continuum. Bends in the space-time cause the attraction of particles and a distortion in time. Time passes more slowly around a strong gravitational field than a weak one. Kinda like a black hole.

wow ur smart, i didnt even know that

There's a lot people don't know about me>> 😄

You must not know bout me'

you must now know bout me'

Well I'm god sooooooooo....I know all.........lol

Nah, I just like to read.

Before I give my take on this I'd like to say that I'm Catholic, so I do believe in Jesus. However, this is my problem with your thread JesusIsAlive. Your belief in Jesus is faith, yet you question others people's beliefs in other religions or science itself. What people are asking here is how can you state that Jesus is truth when there is no facts to back this up? You state that Jesus is truth to you due to you following His way. Through this following you have found acceptance in life. People find other beliefs to follow and they find acceptance in their lives, how do you prove that their faiths are wrong? Dont get me wrong I believe in Jesus, it's just that I find it rude that you consider your faith is absolute truth compared to other's beliefs. That is all.

I can have another you..in a minute

Matter fact, he'll be here..in a minute

baby.....

Originally posted by teampac08
Before I give my take on this I'd like to say that I'm Catholic, so I do believe in Jesus. However, this is my problem with your thread JesusIsAlive. Your belief in Jesus is faith, yet you question others people's beliefs in other religions or science itself. What people are asking here is how can you state that Jesus is truth when there is no facts to back this up? You state that Jesus is truth to you due to you following His way. Through this following you have found acceptance in life. People find other beliefs to follow and they find acceptance in their lives, how do you prove that their faiths are wrong? Dont get me wrong I believe in Jesus, it's just that I find it rude that you consider your faith is absolute truth compared to other's beliefs. That is all.

👆

Thank You...that basically sums up my question to him which he will not answer