Dooku: The Image of Grey

Now while Lucas did not paint the portrait that well in the movies, we learn very well in the EU that Dooku is not "evil" in the Sith tradition. He's not a Palpatine...but he's not a Yoda, either. I felt he was portrayed and explored the best out of most any character in the Era. A character who can be argued to be virtuous and noble by one person and despicable and evil by another is my kind of character.

In fact, let's discuss this point. What do you think Dooku as? Good? Evil? What proof do you have of either?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Now while Lucas did not paint the portrait that well in the movies, we learn very well in the EU that Dooku is not "evil" in the Sith tradition. He's not a Palpatine...but he's not a Yoda, either. I felt he was portrayed and explored the best out of most any character in the Era. A character who can be argued to be virtuous and noble by one person and despicable and evil by another is my kind of character.

In fact, let's discuss this point. What do you think Dooku as? Good? Evil? What proof do you have of either?

Actually Dook IS evil seeing as how he kills without remorse.

One could argue that the Confederacy of Independent Systems may have been "good" especially considering the corruption prevalent with the Republic at the time.

Dooku however was not. He and Sidious were using the Confederation in order to further their own agendas. He was a villain through and through - might I add, with style.

Dooku however was not. He and Sidious were using the Confederation in order to further their own agendas. He was a villain through and through - might I add, with style.

Dooku's agenda was Palpatine's but whereas Palpatine did it for himself, Dooku wanted the Empire for the benefit of the people. He saw, as many right-thinking persons do, the total failure in democratic systems; the endless corruption where the government continuously fails to meet the needs of the people...despite being "run" by the people.

He believed that under a single ruler, this could be remedied. A benevolent despot who would act and that action would result in reaction, kinda the opposite of what the Old Republic did. A kind-hearted dictator can make more progress to ruling a country/galaxy/etc. than any republic or democracy.

Actually Dook IS evil seeing as how he kills without remorse.

Living without regret or thinking "the ends justify the means" is a perfectly acceptable notion. you may disagree with it but we all think differently, depending on how we are raised and taught.

Dooku was evil after he joined the dark side. And Sidious is the ultimate evil.

Dooku's agenda was Palpatine's but whereas Palpatine did it for himself, Dooku wanted the Empire for the benefit of the people. He saw, as many right-thinking persons do, the total failure in democratic systems; the endless corruption where the government continuously fails to meet the needs of the people...despite being "run" by the people.

He believed that under a single ruler, this could be remedied. A benevolent despot who would act and that action would result in reaction, kinda the opposite of what the Old Republic did.

I'm wondering how you are coming to the conclusion that Dooku even had the best interests of the "people?" If he even had any hint of morals, he would not resort to arsony, blackmail, or brute military force to get what he wanted. What more, why would he resort to biological weaponry and bombing civilian sites in order to defeat those star systems siding with the Republic? It seems he had a pretty good idea that what he was doing would cause more suffering, not prevent a greater evil from continuing.

There are numerous sources highliting Dooku's depravity. In the ROTS novel for example:

"In fact, he has never been entirely sure what beings mean
when they speak of friendship. Love, hate, joy, anger-even when he can feel the energy of these emotions in others, they translate in his perception to other kinds of feelings. The kinds that make sense.
Jealousy he understands, and possessiveness: he is fierce when any being encroaches on what is rightfully his.
Intolerance....
Spite is a recreation: he takes considerable pleasure from the suffering of his enemies.
Pride is a virtue in an aristocrat, and indignation his inalienable right: when any dare to impugn his integrity, his honor, or his rightful place atop the natural hierarchy of authority."

It highlights that human emotions are alien to him; concepts such as love or joy. Jealousy, intolerance, spite, and pride are what he understands. He believes himself to be superiour to any other being, and that his abilities and powers give him rights over lesser beings. If he were "morally grey" then he would possess at least some redeeming qualities, such as the intentional well being of those he rules.

These emotions seem to imply that Dooku never really had the interests of the Confederacy or the allying nations in mind; he wanted power, as all sith do. He was hiding behind the facade of the Confederacy to gain that power, to seem appealing before the public eye.

Also, for him to believe that a democratic system is corrupt and a totalitarian government ruled by himself and Sidious is not, well, that seems to me another sign of his pride, nothing more.

Finally, someone who subscribes to the theory that hatred is of paramount importance in someone's life seems to be the living definition of evil.

I agree completely. He was a political idealist and knew how speak to seem like a descent guy. Palpatine used the good of the people as his stance to stay the supreme ruler, but he in no way cared about the people, nor did Dooku. Before anything that he was, he was Sith first and foremost, and as such, evil was embedded within him. All he cared about was himself and his master (and even that was extremely conditional). In AOTC he prided himself to his master that he had started the war. Nothing grey about taking pride in starting a war.

Color it anyway you want, but he was evil. Killing without remorse, especially your old friends/comrades, is an evil act. Plain and simple.

Dooku was evil, he just had manners.

Anything he did that was "good for the people" was purely a coincidence. He looks after himself. Also, he was scared shitless of Palpatine, and knew he was evil, and, he still tried to get him into power.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Now while Lucas did not paint the portrait that well in the movies, we learn very well in the EU that Dooku is not "evil" in the Sith tradition. He's not a Palpatine...but he's not a Yoda, either. I felt he was portrayed and explored the best out of most any character in the Era. A character who can be argued to be virtuous and noble by one person and despicable and evil by another is my kind of character.

In fact, let's discuss this point. What do you think Dooku as? Good? Evil? What proof do you have of either?

Damn you. I thought this was going to be the book that's replace Plagueis's novel.

Dooku was indeed Evil, just because your elegant, polite, well spoken...
doesn't make you any less evil. In the movies he has no regrets and just wants power, but in EU in some moments of weakness(which are very few) he seems to regret what he has done, turning to the Dark side, especially in Dark Rendezvous, but he never those anything.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Dooku was evil, he just had manners.

Anything he did that was "good for the people" was purely a coincidence. He looks after himself. Also, he was scared shitless of Palpatine, and knew he was evil, and, he still tried to get him into power.

I share similar thoughts, but I have to say, Dooku is certainly not a Tarkin or a Malak when it comes to "evilness", so he's no where near on par with Palpatine in sheer ruthlessness.

What, you think that if Dooku had possesion of the Death Star he wouldn't blow up a planet?

Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
What, you think that if Dooku had possesion of the Death Star he wouldn't blow up a planet?

Just for the hell of it? No, I don't. Color it anyway you like, but there are depths of evil. Palpatine is, obviously, the "biggest" and most ruthless incarnation of cruelty we've seen. Dooku isn't as evil as people like Tarkin and Malak.

Hell, Nute Gunray is evil, but would he blow up a planet? I hardly think so.

Originally posted by Gideon
I share similar thoughts, but I have to say, Dooku is certainly not a Tarkin or a Malak when it comes to "evilness", so he's no where near on par with Palpatine in sheer ruthlessness.

Of course he's not as evil as the "most evil people" (Sidious and Maul come to mind), but, saying that he is unlike Tarkin doesn't seem right to me. Tarkin does anything to benefit himself, without moral boundaries (such as enslaving wookiees, blowing up planets, and sentencing Leia to death). Dooku seems a lot like him. It was less what Dooku did personally, and more of what he allowed to happen, and what he oversaw, similar to Tarkin. He allowed for genocide to occur, and, if he were put in Tarkins' position, he probably would have done the same things Tarkin did.

Also, he's a friggin Sith.

Yea, he is Evil, but in Dark Rendezvous he almost came close to returning back to the light, but his pride prevented that. I think deep down he knows what he is doing is wrong, but it is because of his pride to become the best, greatest, to have more power, he just gos on, on the Dark path, he is more important then other people.

To the people who are talking about him being a "friggin' Sith" consult the topic on why he does not have "Sith Eyes." Most figured it was because he was never truly of the dark side, as malicious as a Dark Anakin or Sidious.

As for him caring about the people, I seem to recall it being labeled out in LoE. Might be wrong. He simply felt that the corrupt system of the Old Republic was a total farce and the dictatorship of the Sith would be better. It's hardly arrogance. That's like saying any system ever set up by anyone is arrogance because they think they can do well as leaders.

Who was he trying to persuade when he said that?

Jolly, I completely disagree. I don't see Dooku as the "let's-blow-up-a-planet-for-fun" type like Tarkin was. Of course, he'd be capable of doing it, but for some sort of a reason.

It wasn't a joyride in the Death Star. He meant to show the galaxy what the battle station could really do.

Talk about 'Sith Eyes' which are purely an element of style) all you want; you can't get away from the fact that Dooku is a Sith and was consumed by the Dark Side, as GL clearly intended and says.

He;s pure evil, just in a different style. Full stop.

There is very little in Star Wars fandom more tiresome than the desire for 'greyness'