Dooku: The Image of Grey

Originally posted by jollyjim311
It wasn't a joyride in the Death Star. He meant to show the galaxy what the battle station could really do.

Actually, it was an inhuman display of barbarism that had the added advantage of being a "demonstration" of the Death Star's destructive qualities. Tarkin threatened to destroy Alderaan to acquire Leia's cooperation; she gave it (albeit a deception), he believed it, and went ahead and destroyed it.

While I certainly believe Dooku is evil, I do not put him anywhere near on Tarkin's level. Dark Rendezvous made it quite clear, as Count Makashi has pointed out, that Dooku was potentially redeemable (he came very close). That is one of the themes of the saga, Jolly.

Talk about 'Sith Eyes' which are purely an element of style) all you want; you can't get away from the fact that Dooku is a Sith and was consumed by the Dark Side, as GL clearly intended and says.

He;s pure evil, just in a different style. Full stop.

There is very little in Star Wars fandom more tiresome than the desire for 'greyness'

I disagree, Ush. Vader, too, was consumed by the Dark Side. He commited brutal, heinous crimes (even more than Dooku), and yet he was redeemed. Certain types of evil can be redeemed. Palpatine couldn't have. He is pure evil, I don't fancy Dooku as such.

But Anakin as the chosen one had a bit good still in him, thats what allowed him to turn back. The "sith eyes" were to represent a state of rage or extreme hatred. Anakin only had them at the end of his Mustafar slaughter and after OB1 skewered him up. Sidious didn't always have them, Maul always had them, and Dooku (as we far as we've seen" never has. It doesn't make him any less of a Sith or any less evil, his just shows his control over his emotions. He's cool, calm, and collected almost all the time. He's still an evil bastard who looks out for himself. When Tarkin blew up Alderaan, those orders most likely came from Palpatine, not himself, or he at least had the ok to do so if he saw fit. I see no reason why Dooku wouldn't do the same if ordered. Didn't he have chemical missiles waiting to drop on innocent civilians? How's that different than the Death Star? Besides scale-wise, it's still killing innocent people.

It had nothing to do with him being the Chosen One, Subjekt. If that was simply the reason, he wouldn't have been Sidious's man/cyborg servant for two decades. The reason is that he was redeemed through his son. Defeating Sidious and the Sith was due to him being the Chosen One - not the redemption itself.

As I've said, Dooku was nearly redeemed through Yoda's efforts. "Pure evil" doesn't have weak moments. Pure evil can't be redeemed. Dooku isn't pure evil.

What I was saying was, being that the Chosen One's mission was to destroy the Sith, there's nothing that could deter that. You can say it was because of Luke, but that fits into the master plan. So it a round about way, it works that way. But, we're talking about Dooku who may have been close to redemption, but never made it for whatever reasons. Basically all i wanted to get across was that Dooku is in fact evil and there was no grey area. In star wars, good is good, evil is evil.

And evil will always win, because good is dumb. 😛

Um... Luke was redeemed when he turned to the dark side, Quinlan Vos, Kyp... evil may be evil, but just because you're evil, doesn't mean you're pure evil. Dooku was far (far far far) from "pure evil".

Moviewise, if you're evil, you're pure evil. Vader is a special case.

EU wise, I hate the EU and it's damned revolving door policy, as Ush puts it. It's a stupid notion...

Dooku was "neutral" in his intentions, at least compared to other villains.

He wanted reform, and ultimately peace and stability, that was his TRUE desire.

But he went about it the wrong way.

That was blunt I know, but STFU.

His goals were corrupted by Sidious, of course...

Those poor kids, all falling in with the wrong crowd. 70 year old Jedi Masters just don't have enough common sense.

Rex, you'll forgive me for once if we disagree, but I find the notion of declaring Dooku as "pure evil" is ridiculous. He is not as evil as Sidious is, and you know it.

Indeed, TG, indeed. We should fund PSA videos to send out to all those aging Jedi...

No I won't. *cuts you in half* Who said anything about comparing evilness? Of Sidious is more evil than Dooku, but that's not the point. The point of what I said is that evil is evil, there's no redeeming it. Vader is a special case.

No I won't. *cuts you in half* Who said anything about comparing evilness? Of Sidious is more evil than Dooku, but that's not the point. The point of what I said is that evil is evil, there's no redeeming it. Vader is a special case.

If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could ever imagine.

Anyways, you called Dooku "pure evil", which isn't the case. Vader isn't a "special case" in that he is the only one. The movies quite clearly show that he was redeemed through his son. Sidious is the only pure evil we've seen.

And Maul, i don't think he could be ever redeemed.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And Maul, i don't think he could be ever redeemed.

Maul is certainly described as "pure evil", but he was trained to be an instrument of evil.

Maul was not "pure evil" neither is Sidious.

In order to be pure evil, they would have to be completely seperated from virtue of any kind.

However Sidious is persistent, ambitious, and values education and knowledge. To me, those are some very good traits. Maul is loyal to the core (to Sidious that is). Another good virtue.

Don't get me wrong, they are both evil, very much so actually, but not "pure evil," since they possess at least some traits looked high upon by society.

If you are saying who "looks" like evil the most, I say Maul😆

Maul was abused in his childhood, he was like brainwashed you know. I'm sure he got to heaven, it was not his fault. He was created a monster by Sidious. ;_;

Originally posted by zephiel7
Maul was not "pure evil" neither is Sidious.

In order to be pure evil, they would have to be completely seperated from virtue of any kind.

However Sidious is persistent, ambitious, and values education and knowledge. To me, those are some very good traits. Maul is loyal to the core (to Sidious that is). Another good virtue.

Don't get me wrong, they are both evil, very much so actually, but not "pure evil," since they possess at least some traits looked high upon by society.

I find your definition of "pure evil" to be a bit... ridiculous. Are you insinuating that, to be "pure evil", they must be stupid? Palpatine isn't evil because he is intelligent? Weird... no, Sidious is pure evil in his actions, methods, and motivation.

Simply because they possess traits that are considered "good" or "positive" by society means jack shit, especially when they use those "good" traits for evil ends. In fact, I find that more perverse and more evil.

Palpatine is unquestionably pure evil. Intelligence isn't any resembling 'good.' It's a tool to be used. However, Maul is most definitely not pure evil, anymore than a wild animal could be evil. Or a sword.

Dooku was not a good person. Not in the least. He was manipulative, murderous and genocidal.

Count Dooku wasn't evil, he genuinely felt that what he was doing was for the good of The Galaxy, and while he had to do a few bad things on the way, he did feel remorse for the bad things he had to do, so no, he wasn't evil.