Originally posted by Ytse
I didn't change the subject.Santa Claus is a vague idea that is different everywhere around the world.
The god of Christian theism is clearly defined in scripture.
How is your analogy relevent in light of this?
The god of Christian theism is NOT clearly defined in scripture. If it was, there would not be all the different denominations of Christianity. Therefore, comparing the god of Christian theism to Santa Claus is accurate when talking about rather someone who does not believe can understand the characteristics of this god.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The god of Christian theism is NOT clearly defined in scripture. If it was, there would not be all the different denominations of Christianity.
Yeah right. The main reason there are so many different denominations is that there are certain different points of doctrine that are disagreed upon. Not the nature of god himself. Any sects like that are generally seen as being beyond the pale of orthodoxy and heretical. Such as mormonism (which denies the trinity). Or Christian science (which says that Jesus wasn't fully Christ).
Originally posted by Ytse
Yeah right. The main reason there are so many different denominations is that there are certain different points of doctrine that are disagreed upon. Not the nature of god himself. Any sects like that are generally seen as being beyond the pale of orthodoxy and heretical. Such as mormonism (which denies the trinity). Or Christian science (which says that Jesus wasn't fully Christ).
You just gave two examples of where god is considered different. Thanks! 😄
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You just gave two examples of where god is considered different. Thanks! 😄
Perhaps you didn't read the preceeding sentence (or simply chose to ignore it):
Any sects like that are generally seen as being beyond the pale of orthodoxy and heretical.
in other words, they're essentially different faiths than Christian theism
Originally posted by Ytse
Perhaps you didn't read the preceeding sentence (or simply chose to ignore it):Any sects like that are generally seen as being beyond the pale of orthodoxy and heretical.
Not from my point of view.
You cannot exclude other Christians from being Christian just because you want too. Just like I can't say that other types of Buddhists are not Buddhists just because we don't believe the same.
Originally posted by Ytse
I'm wondering why he is citing the scripture as an observation of god's characteristics when he doesn't believe the scripture can tell us such a thing about god if there even is such a thing as god in the first place.
What he believes about The Bible is irrelevant. His argument is that one cannot induce future behavior from past behavior.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
What he believes about The Bible is irrelevant. His argument is that one can induce future behavior from past behavior.
1) What he believes about the bible is totally relevent because he's citing it as his source here.
2) His argument was actually the opposite of what you're saying. That we cannot induce future behavior from past behavior.
Jeez...I feel like I'm conducting traffic here. And on a street where noone knows how to drive.
Originally posted by Ytse
That's nonsense. Then someone like you could consider Islam to be just another sect of Christianity since it affirms the existence of Jesus and god but just in a different way.
No. Islam is a related religion but it is a different religion. Much like Hinduism is a related religion to Buddhism but not the same religion.
Here is a list of all Christian Denominations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No. Islam is a related religion but it is a different religion.
You're being totally arbitrary here. First you say that there are different denominations because they have a different ideas about the nature of god.
Then I pointed out how any with radically different beliefs like that aren't considered Christianity at all.
Then you said that it doesn't matter from your perspective.
Well, if mormonism counts as Christianity even though it paints a different picture of the nature of god. Then why doesn't Islam count as a denomination Christianity?
Originally posted by Ytse
1) What he believes about the bible is totally relevent because he's citing it as his source here.
No, it is not, and no, he is not. His argument is that even if we presume the characterization of God as described in The Bible to be true, a valid induction cannot be made regarding behavior.
Originally posted by Ytse
2) His argument was actually the opposite of what you're saying. That we cannot induce future behavior from past behavior.Jeez...I feel like I'm conducting traffic here. And on a street where noone knows how to drive.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
What he believes about The Bible is irrelevant. His argument is that one cannot induce future behavior from past behavior.
* Typo
Originally posted by Ytse
You're being totally arbitrary here. First you say that there are different denominations because they have a different ideas about the nature of god.Then I pointed out how any with radically different beliefs like that aren't considered Christianity at all.
Then you said that it doesn't matter from your perspective.
Well, if mormonism counts as Christianity even though it paints a different picture of the nature of god. Then why doesn't Islam count as a denomination Christianity?
I don't know. I didn't make up the fact that Mormonism IS Christian. Look at the list.
Originally posted by YtseWell my first guess would be that Islam doesn't view Christ as their savior.
You're being totally arbitrary here. First you say that there are different denominations because they have a different ideas about the nature of god.Then I pointed out how any with radically different beliefs like that aren't considered Christianity at all.
Then you said that it doesn't matter from your perspective.
Well, if mormonism counts as Christianity even though it paints a different picture of the nature of god. Then why doesn't Islam count as a denomination Christianity?
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No, it is not, and no, he is not. His argument is that even if we presume the characterization of God as described in The Bible to be true, a valid induction cannot be made regarding behavior.
If one presumes the characterization of god in the bible to be true? Well, then why would you need induction at all to tell what god may or may not do in the future? He says so himself. And part of the characterization of god is that he isn't a liar.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I didn't make up the fact that Mormonism IS Christian. Look at the list.
1) Wikipedia is not any kind of authority
2) I already said they were sects of Christianity that were considered beyond the pale of orthodoxy and heretical. They believe in a different god for goodness sakes. Most Christians believe in a triune god. Mormons believe the trinity is totally seperate. They even add an entire extra set of scriptures called the book of mormon.
Originally posted by Ytse
If one presumes the characterization of god in the bible to be true? Well, then why would you need induction at all to tell what god may or may not do in the future? He says so himself. And part of the characterization of god is that he isn't a liar.
Presuming the characterization of God as described in The Bible to be true for the purposes of an argument does not equate to believing the characterization of God as described in The Bible to be true.
Furthermore, future behavior cannot be induced from past behavior because, "Even a liar tells the truth sometimes." Just because one has been honest in the past, it does not follow from this that he will not be dishonest in the future.
Originally posted by Ytse
1) Wikipedia is not any kind of authority2) I already said they were sects of Christianity that were considered beyond the pale of orthodoxy and heretical. They believe in a different god for goodness sakes. Most Christians believe in a triune god. Mormons believe the trinity is totally seperate. They even add an entire extra set of scriptures called the book of mormon.
It is a good list, that is all.
So, anyone who dose not believe like you do is not a Christian even if they claim to be?