Science cannnot disprove the existence of God.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Presuming the characterization of God as described in The Bible to be true for the purposes of an argument does not equate to believing the characterization of God as described in The Bible to be true.

Either way, you have to work with the suppositions set in place by Christianity to argue against them. And one of those is that god doesn't lie.

Furthermore, future behavior cannot be induced from past behavior because

But that's not what I am doing. I am not using induction to tell me anything about god at all. I am having faith that what god says is true.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, anyone who dose not believe like you do is not a Christian even if they claim to be?

This is where language gets tricky. If someone wants to call themselves a Christian even if its superficial...well, who am I to say they cannot? But when I use the word Christian what I am referring to is a specific set of beliefs. That there is an all powerful triune god who redeems mankind via Christ. That he has revealed these truths to mankind via scripture.

Originally posted by Ytse
This is where language gets tricky. If someone wants to call themselves a Christian even if its superficial...well, who am I to say they cannot? But when I use the word Christian what I am referring to is a specific set of beliefs. That there is an all powerful triune god who redeems mankind via Christ. That he has revealed these truths to mankind via scripture.

Every person on the Earth that calls themselves Christian believes that what they believe is the "truth". Therefore, when talking about Christians in general, you cannot exclude anyone without making that clear.

So...

The god of Christian theism is NOT clearly defined in scripture. If it was, there would not be all the different denominations of Christianity. Therefore, comparing the god of Christian theism to Santa Claus is accurate when talking about rather someone who does not believe can understand the characteristics of this god.

This is assuming that we are talking about all Christians, not some subset that only you know about.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Every person on the Earth that calls themselves Christian believes that what they believe is the "truth". Therefore, when talking about Christians in general, you cannot exclude anyone without making that clear.

But we aren't talking about people in general who claim to be Christians. We're talking about the specific claims I am making. Why would you ask me to defend a position I am not even taking?

Originally posted by Ytse
But we aren't talking about people in general who claim to be Christians. We're talking about the specific claims I am making. Why would you ask me to defend a position I am not even taking?

chimp

It was relevant 3 pages back. Good job on dogging the topic until everyone forgets what we are talking about. 🙄

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It was relevant 3 pages back. Good job on dogging the topic until everyone forgets what we are talking about. 🙄

You're going to have to cite the actual post where this is relevent. You could've just done that instead of complaining.

Originally posted by Ytse
You're going to have to cite the actual post where this is relevent. You could've just done that instead of complaining.

The "I don't care" factor is kicking in strong now. Fingers...don't...want...to...type; must...try...to...get...thread...closed...

Originally posted by Ytse
Either way, you have to work with the suppositions set in place by Christianity to argue against them. And one of those is that god doesn't lie.

"Even a liar tells the truth sometimes."

Originally posted by Ytse
But that's not what I am doing. I am not using induction to tell me anything about god at all. I am having faith that what god says is true.

You are inducing future behavior, i.e. God will not lie based on past behavior, i.e. God has not lied, or if you prefer, what God has said in the past is true, therefore what God will say in the future is true.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
"Even a liar tells the truth sometimes."

You are inducing future behavior, i.e. God will not lie based on past behavior, i.e. God has not lied, or if you prefer, what God has said in the past is true, therefore what God will say in the future is true.

Give up now before you loose your mind. 😱

homer <-Me

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
"Even a liar tells the truth sometimes."

Which isn't in the set of Christian suppositions. You can't simply claim it's a valid description of god's character.

You are inducing future behavior, i.e. God will not lie based on past behavior, i.e. God has not lied, or if you prefer, what God has said in the past is true, therefore what God will say in the future is true.

No, I'm not. As I said, induction relies on at least some observations. If you count reading scripture as observing god's character then that presupposes that there is a god to have any character in the first place. Otherwise it's describing a fiction which is something that is invented, not observed.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Give up now before you loose your mind. 😱

If you "loose" your mind then you've let it go of your own volition.

😄

Originally posted by Ytse
No, I'm not. As I said, induction relies on at least some observations. If you count reading scripture as observing god's character then that presupposes that there is a god to have any character in the first place. Otherwise it's describing a fiction which is something that is invented, not observed.

That is incorrect.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is incorrect.

No, it is correct.

(see how pointless it is to make unsubstantiated assertions?)

Originally posted by Ytse
No, it is correct.

(see how pointless it is to make unsubstantiated assertions?)

Let’s say I’m writing a Christmas book. So, I sit down and read every book on Santa Clause that I can find. Am I observing the behavior of a fictional character? Can I read a book about Santa Clause and observe his behavior in order to write another Christmas book?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Let’s say I’m writing a Christmas book. So, I sit down and read every book on Santa Clause that I can find. Am I observing the behavior of a fictional character?

No, you're not observing any kind of behavior at all. You're reading a story that was totally invented. There is no Santa therefore he cannot behave in any way.

Originally posted by Ytse
No, you're not observing any kind of behavior at all. You're reading a story that was totally invented. There is no Santa therefore he cannot behave in any way.

OK, then you cannot observe the behavior of god in the bible because it is written. You can only observe something with your eyes.

Is that correct?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
OK, then you cannot observe the behavior of god in the bible because it is written.

I believe god has revealed himself through scripture. Yet, I cannot demonstrate that it is so. That is where the core faith comes in.

You can only observe something with your eyes.

You can observe with any of your five senses.

Originally posted by Ytse
I believe god has revealed himself through scripture. Yet, I cannot demonstrate that it is so. That is where the core faith comes in.

You can observe with any of your five senses.

So, if I believe that Santa Cause is real, then I can observe his behavior?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, if I believe that Santa Cause is real, then I can observe his behavior?

I never said I could observe god's behavior because I believe. I said I believe god has revealed his behavior. Not that I have observed it.

And even if you believed santa was real it doesn't mean you could see his behavior. But it's hard for me to answer really because santa is a vague term. There are all sorts of concepts of santa. which are you referring to?

Originally posted by Ytse
I never said I could observe god's behavior because I believe. I said I believe god has revealed his behavior. Not that I have observed it.

And even if you believed santa was real it doesn't mean you could see his behavior. But it's hard for me to answer really because santa is a vague term. There are all sorts of concepts of santa. which are you referring to?

I have the same problem; there are so many concepts of god, I don't know what you are talking about.

Your belief that god has revealed his behavior does not mean that the bible can be used to observe the behavior of god. For I could believe that Santa has revealed his behavior, but that would not make it true.