"They placed far fewer limitations on you than you have now. Nor, objectively speaking, was it a great lie compared to the life you live now. The overwhelming majority of information you received in the Matrix was genuine, as was the final efffect upon you. You were mistaken about the year, but then you still are. No Machine ever limited anything you did in the Matrix. Whereas they seek to limit you all the time without of it."
"But if I know about others seeking to limit me, I can oppose it! Can you see this diffrence?
And I have a question- is human civilization in Matrix actually advancing as it would be if not enslaved? Machines are constraining us. There is after all only one big city and people don`t even realize it."
"They didn't seek to limit you. It is in fact a basic design principle of the Matrix that Humanity be given as much freedom as possible. They gave too much to Humanity at first, in fact.
"But now you are talking about society. That is very different indeed."
(It's not actually true about one big city, as Morpheus was spotted at Heathrow airport, accroding to the first film. But that just seems to be where everything happens. The point is left vague.)
"Well, the progress of society can often add the freedom of individual. I wouldn`t have as much freedom in middle ages as I can have in modern society. When people have advanced technology making the basic tasks easier and less time-consuming, they can spend more time thinking and pursuing their real interests. If human society was influenced by Machines, it affects the freedom of individual as well. Don`t Machines use goverment to deal with troublesome individuals, Agents being last resort?"
Originally posted by Ushgarak
"A rather simple one," says Lo Qi. "I do not actually intend to debate the nature of right or wrong, merely to point out that some do indeed think that way- indeed, probably more humans do than do not, so I am entitled to ask if that is a motivating factor in your beliefs about the advancment of society."
"It is. Without a moral code, society cannot survive; it will crumble from within. Look at the Romans. They lost the morals of hard work and honesty, and so the empire fell from corruption and sloth."
Originally posted by Lord Melkor
"Well, the progress of society can often add the freedom of individual. I wouldn`t have as much freedom in middle ages as I can have in modern society. When people have advanced technology making the basic tasks easier and less time-consuming, they can spend more time thinking and pursuing their real interests. If human society was influenced by Machines, it affects the freedom of individual as well. Don`t Machines use goverment to deal with troublesome individuals, Agents being last resort?"
"Agents are never used against the inhabitants. And the final analysis is this- if you feel that a life in late 20th or early 21st century had value in history, which I feel we all would, then it has equal value in the Matrix. No-one's indidivudal freedom is restricted in such a way."
As for the Romans...
"The trouble with that line of thinking is that ther Romans were just as immoral as they were rising to power. I think we need to look deeper for their fall. it also gives morality a purely practical dimension, which is again unlikely. A truly moral Roman Empire would never have existed."
"They fell because of internal corruption and the laziness of the Italian populace, which led to the recruitment of foreign barbarians. The Romans were never boy scouts, but they did judge fairly and, at the rise of their power, still picked rulers by merit. It was not until the end when corruption and rulers were too greedy and incompetent to deal with problems."
"Ah, but the Senate was picking Emperors at the time of their fall, also. And the Eastern half of the Empire, which has to be one of the most politically immoral and corrupt organisations that ever existed- indeed, we get the term 'Byzantine' from them- lasted another thousand years.
"It may suit some to feel that a sense of morality is important to the survival of a society, but I feel history shows a more complex picture."
"On the subject of right and wrong, while mankind is mostly unaware of it, I believe it is still wrong to imprison an entire race without their consent. The Matrix may have had less limitations and was more comfortable than the Real World, but it was the concept that it's meant to control the Human race that got me."
(Sorry, had to get my two cents in...)
That is always an interesting area, of course, that does confound the idea that things are only done for practical reasons; the caring for the old and infirm is one of the most unnatural and impractical things that Human society does. But it is done because it is seen to be morally right.
But, we have no more time to discuss this.
With a sweep of Lo Qi's stick, the shapes formed by the rocks and the pebbles dissolve away, like the tide.
"We have been talking a lot about purpose," says Lo Qi. "That's a very fundamental concept. From the moment of our creation, it becomes relevant. Right from the start."
New words form.
STARTING POINT
"Now, if these things become relevant right from the start, it very much follows that how you start must be relevant. Let us consider how we start. Take the Human..." says Lo Qi.
With his stick, he draws two stick figures in the sand, one with the male symbol and one with the female symbol above their heads. They animate, approach each other, and hug. Lo Qi draws in a much smaller stick figure beneath them.
"Not actually true for any of you, of course, but philosophy is about belief, and you believed it was true, and for the final effect it had on you, it may as well have been true. But compare the Machine."
Lo Qi draws a line to the right of the stick figures, and on the other side of the line, he draws in lots and lots of little 1s and 0s. They animate, move around, up and down and left and right and around each other.
Underneath it all, he draws in another toy robot.
"Different principle, same result. Well, almost. What actually is the biggest difference between these two processes?"
"Ah, well, that is slightly misleading, but the essence of what you say is correct. A Human is created with no purpose, whereas a Machine's is pre-set before programming on them has even begun. It may also be said that there is never any such thing as an accidental creation of a Machine. This, in fact, ties into this same concept of purpose. Creating an Artifical Intelligence is such a precise and technical task that it is almost absurd to do it for no reason."