USH'S MATRIX GAME 2006 FOURTH ASSIGNMENT (PHILOSOPHY)- 'The Door'

"I agree with Klez here, accumulation of knowledge is great measure of advancement."

"I don't think we're talking about measure here, but instead, what we find impressive..."

Well, it is good if advancement is impressive.

"And, again, what value do you find in that? I can merely ask the same question again, What is laudable about the accumulation of knowledge beyond the practical? Each time I can ask the same question until we reach whatever underlying reason you may have., What point- what purpose- any of these things?"

"Because we understand ourselves, the world around us and our place in it. And we can make educated choices, as we understand our limitations, ignorance and conditioning much better."

"And you feel that that is a superior and admirable, laudable thing to achieve?"

"Yes."

"I do not want to be forever recursive, but can you justify the value in that?"

"Making a fully knowledgeable choice is much more difficult that it seems to many. Usually we make the choices others make for us, even if we think those are our own choices. But when we free each other from the condtioning we can make choices of our own and trully affect the world and us. Perhaps the diffrence between human and god?"

"And if we do not know our own limitations, we could make a decision destructive to us and our comrades."

"That is a simply practical value though, is it not? I am seeing if you see value beyond the practical, value you would strive to get even if it were not directly practical for survival or other such uses."

This was directed at Helios, right?

Yup.

"Well, yes, I suppose that would be relevant, but how are we supposed to know what will be relevant and what isn't? Anyway, it's probably pretty damn illogical, but if there's knowledge out there, why not find it, as it can only help us."

There are several major philosophies that state that morals are an expression of individual attitudes or emotion.

Eventually, any justification will come down to the statement "X is good becase Y"; in that scenario it's clear that "I desire it" as an interpretation of Y is as reasonable as "it increases our freedom". I'm not claiming any objective value at all, so there isn't any further justification possible - unless you want justification of a subjective approach in the first place.

I am thinking and considering things, but I see no other better answer your questions.

"Ah, help you- so practical value again. Do you find any value in it that is not practicval, but nonetheless desirable?"

To summarise the current situation-

Some things people do in order to survive- in modern day society, that basically comes down to finding a means of income.

But some things people do to improve themselves, regardless of whether it helps them survive or not. Many people strive to be 'better' people, but it;s not as if you get paid more for it. It is just something that you find laudable (i.e. praiseworthy) in any case, for a variery of reasons- often moral.

We're applying the same question to society. Societies have to survive. But societies also improve morally, culturally, and even some of their technological advancment is little to do with survival. Now, you may see society as the more important entity here, or you may say that this is simply a result of the cumulative effort of the individuals within it, or even that 'society' is a vague phrase and that this is simply a reflection of what people do. It doesn't matter, point is, we are asking a. if you find any value in societies advancing in ways that are not practically minded (i.e. geared for survival) and b. why.

It's the 'why' that is important; I very much doubt any of you truly think there is nothing good about the advance of society.

Well, I am giving this topic one more day before we move on.

"Why is it important to society becuase it gives us hope that we can have a higher purpose then just this lowly existence of survival. It gives hope that one day we won't need to survive because there will be no danger."

(That helps, thank you, Ush. 🙂 )

"Plus, it makes life more enjoyable," Heph says. "For example, music. Tunes that can make you happier than anything, tunes that can make you sob, it all makes you feel like there's something more important than the day-to-day means of survival."

So we have a contrast in answers here between what Lo Qi terms selfish reasons (i.e. it makes life 'better'😉 and some sort of higher purpose, yes?