Father Says Sons Traumatized by Lesbian Library Book

Originally posted by chithappens
I agree to some extents but I find it hard to call characteristics of people a sort of culture. Nations can have cultures, but characteristics of people... No.

characteristic is the wrong word. The best one is meme, but its a difficult topic in itself, since there are many ways to interpret the word meme.

Twist my arm, I guess this is it. "Cultural" characteristics that a person has are those behaviours and beliefs that come through imitation. Imitation in this instance is the scientific definition of imitation, which deals with forming a mental concept of the motivations and intentions of another person's actions. A culture then being any group of people that share the things they imitate. I'm kinda happy saying that "I have a different definition of culture than you" just for the sake of simplicity.

Understood. I find the topic to be insulting once your talk about anything besides the culture of a nation. Otherwise I am part of infinite cultures I am unaware of because we have Starhawks making the definitions.

Originally posted by chithappens
Understood. I find the topic to be insulting once your talk about anything besides the culture of a nation. Otherwise I am part of infinite cultures I am unaware of because we have Starhawks making the definitions.

I would agree generally. Too often "culture" is just an excuse to label people as a "them" and then used to justify certain prejudices.

Using memes is an attempt to look at the replication and variance in ideas that underly culture and how they have changed over time. In a lot of ways, it is unimportant who or what is replicating the meme, so long as it is being replicated. Like studying the genetics of ideology.

Not familiar with it but sounds like something that has been a necessity for a while

indeed. Unfortunately its still pretty fringe in the scientific community, though I am always surprised by people when they know it.

Originally posted by inimalist
The UN definition of culture is highly slanted in favor of aboriginal tribes and minority rights.

Science has been studying culture for some time. It is very complex and diaphanous, and the most general statement would be that cultures do not exist as the monolithic, ideologically and behaviourally uniform entities you describe them as.

My personal interest is looking at shared experiences and emotional or qualitative values toward certain things, especially those that are passed from individual to individual.

So you choose the anthropomorphic definition science gives you and I choose the societal definition The UN gives.

What do you consider the elements of a culture?

Originally posted by Starhawk

What do you consider the elements of a culture?

memes

And it's your contention that gay culture posses none of them?

Originally posted by inimalist
the best single example is probably the emotional "coming out" experience. Not to say all gay people have this moment, but it is certainly something that they understand and have certain reverence for. I think it fits as a "cultural ritual"

Originally posted by inimalist

So your still claiming it as a reaction to oppression. I could say the same of Black Culture.

no, really, I'm not making an argument.

I've said twice that I am backing down from this argument simply because the definition of culture that I am using is fundamentally different than what you are speaking of.

If you want to try and make the argument connecting blacks and gays, fine, I don't agree with it, but meh.

Originally posted by Starhawk
So your still claiming it as a reaction to oppression. I could say the same of Black Culture.

Are you black? If not, stop there.

Challenge me on your theory of oppression and I'll crush it. Try me.

Originally posted by chithappens
Are you black? If not, stop there.

Challenge me on your theory of oppression and I'll crush it. Try me.

Its not my theory. And I was stating that if your going to claim gay culture is simply a by product of oppression then one could say the same of black culture.

No you can't. How? They are not directly related? Was prohibition about oppression of alcohol?

Stupid

Originally posted by chithappens
No you can't. How? They are not directly related? Was prohibition about oppression of alcohol?

Stupid

Again it's not MY theory, I was arguing against it myself.

Originally posted by GCG
Yes and verbal diarrhae should be outlawed as well.

What good comes out of having such a book in a public place?No good at all.Why have it?If the father was watching the kid he would had stop them from reading the book.
But since now adays parents are way too busy with work and such that they have no time to see what the kids are really doing.Sometimes I wonder if it was a good thing for woman to work.jm

so, this is what I said

Originally posted by inimalist
imho modern gay culture is more of a reaction to the common negative experiences that gays go through in society. It has to do with in-group support networks, but their culture, as far as I am concerned, exists almost specifically because it is not accepted as part of the mainstream society.

notice the lack of the word "oppression". I would never argue that gays in north america have faced anything remotely close to what the blacks have.

I would agree that blacks share a culture based on similar experiences. That is one of the core beliefs I have about culture. Similar experience and explanations. However, the experiences blacks go through are so different then gays.

Why are we talkilng about race now?Anywho night.jm

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
What good comes out of having such a book in a public place?No good at all.Why have it?If the father was watching the kid he would had stop them from reading the book.
But since now adays parents are way too busy with work and such that they have no time to see what the kids are really doing.Sometimes I wonder if it was a good thing for woman to work.jm

So gay women can read about their own culture as they have the right to do. The main library in my city carries playboy magazines as many of my friends remind me when I'm trying to work on a project.

Originally posted by inimalist
so, this is what I said

notice the lack of the word "oppression". I would never argue that gays in north america have faced anything remotely close to what the blacks have.

I would agree that blacks share a culture based on similar experiences. That is one of the core beliefs I have about culture. Similar experience and explanations. However, the experiences blacks go through are so different then gays.

I would say the only thing blacks have experienced that gays have not is slavery.

Both blacks and gays have been the subject of racism, they have both had to fight for their civil rights and to be accepted. They have both been the targets of violence.