Kas'im versus Ulic Quel-Droma

Originally posted by darthsith19
Oh yeah, didn't see that part, but still, with weapons and disadvantages he was owning, the only time Mandalore gained the upper hand was when Ulic put away all his weapons. That's pretty much ownage.

No, it's not.

Getting struck in the face, then falling down a cliff isn't "ownage". I've already explained what "ownage" is in terms of the Star Wars universe.

On the ground? Of course they are standing on the ground. What has this got to do with Ulic owning Mandalore?

Since you are incapable of deciphering my basic messages, even when you posted the entire battle (for no reason), I'll explain, and next time I'll keep in mind what kind of intellect I'm dealing with.

Ulic was knocked onto the ground when he fell off the cliff, the same thing happened on the next page, except they traded positions. The fact that this happened tears down your point like deconstruction.

And would you stop with the 'Ulic owning Mandalore' campaign? It's rather asinine, considering on panel evidence disproves that.

The narrator was juicing up the fight, them comic shows what really happened.

Excuse me? The narration is omniscient, or otherwise known as "all knowing". You're not, as far as I'm concerned (and factually know), and the comic shows Ulic getting hammered by an axe, and subsequently cliff diving.

Before Ulic puts away his weapon, he is on unsolid ground and destroys Mandalore's mount and kmocks him onto the ground in a single move. Later, when he choses to use a weapon, an unfamiliar weapon, he beats Mandalore again in a single move. That's ownage, despite what Mandalore did when ulic was unarmed.

So, picking and choosing certain parts of a single battle to support your incorrectly worded claims is "in" now? Puh-leaze.

<darthsith logic> Mace Windu totally destroyed Darth Sidious, since he kicked and disarmed him, and that's the only scene I choose to acknowledge. </darthsith logic>

It doesn't matter if Ulic was unarmed, one handed, hogtied, or not. Mandalore got a successful attack in on him, ergo not 'ownage'. This can be accounted due to the fact Mandalore broke his headgear, and sent him flying. I've never denied that it wasn't impressive, in fact, I've used the feat far more than you, and before you; but, again, "ownage" it was not.

Yes, the outcome hangs in the air because the duel isn;t over yet, but it could have been a second later

That's a rather faulty analysis.

The victor of the battle is uncertain at that point, because it's not clear who would actually win. This would not be so if Ulic Qel-Droma could've capitalized on the situation itself, or if he was dominating the match up.

Ulic was falling through the air, he landed swiftly on his feet, not hanging from a chain.

And?

Mandalore climbed back onto the chain of which was supporting him, so your point here would be what exactly?

Yes, your right

I know.

Ulic beat Mandalore move easily when using an unfamiliar weapon than Mandalore beat ulic when Ulic was using NO weapon.

My Buddha, what is your point? Ulic is at fault for being arrogant, and believing he could defeat Mandalore "regardless of the weapon". He was even offered one, yet didn't take it initially.

Oh, and how we conveniently forget that Ulic was also riding upon a a mount of sorts (which appears, in structure and color, to be a basilisk war droid), whereas Mandalore had no such advantage during the end of the duel.

it takes Ulic one move to beat Mandalore and, if you'll notice, Mandalore requires two moves to get an undefeating hit on an unarmed Ulic.

Which is largely irrelevant.

The fact of the matter is, you're looking at it from a skewed perspective, and not acknowledging properly what "ownage" entails.

It would've been this so called "ownage" (dumbass word from an equally dumbass sith) if Mandalore had not performed a solid attack on Qel-Droma, but he did, therefore it isn't.

Nice try.

It wasn't a 'try', considering your points are still wrong.

Nice try, Polly.

Getting struck in the face, then falling down a cliff isn't "ownage". I've already explained what "ownage" is in terms of the Star Wars universe.

Ulic was knocked onto the ground when he fell off the cliff, the same thing happened on the next page, except they traded positions. The fact that this happened tears down your point like deconstruction.

Excuse me? The narration is omniscient, or otherwise known as "all knowing". You're not, as far as I'm concerned (and factually know), and the comic shows Ulic getting hammered by an axe, and subsequently cliff diving.

So, picking and choosing certain parts of a single battle to support your incorrectly worded claims is "in" now? Puh-leaze.

<darthsith logic> Mace Windu totally destroyed Darth Sidious, since he kicked and disarmed him, and that's the only scene I choose to acknowledge. </darthsith logic>

It doesn't matter if Ulic was unarmed, one handed, hogtied, or not. Mandalore got a successful attack in on him, ergo not 'ownage'. This can be accounted due to the fact Mandalore broke his headgear, and sent him flying. I've never denied that it wasn't impressive, in fact, I've used the feat far more than you, and before you; but, again, "ownage" it was not.

The victor of the battle is uncertain at that point, because it's not clear who would actually win. This would not be so if Ulic Qel-Droma could've capitalized on the situation itself, or if he was dominating the match up.

My Buddha, what is your point? Ulic is at fault for being arrogant, and believing he could defeat Mandalore "regardless of the weapon". He was even offered one, yet didn't take it initially.

Oh, and how we conveniently forget that Ulic was also riding upon a a mount of sorts (which appears, in structure and color, to be a basilisk war droid), whereas Mandalore had no such advantage during the end of the duel.

Will you admit that, when Ulic did use a weapon, he owned Mandalore?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Reading comprehension? I said with weapons it was ownage on Uluc's part.

It's comedic that you bring up reading comprehension. You do realize that you wrote immediately after that that it was still "pretty much ownage", right? Which implies even though he was struck, it was still 'ownage', when it wasn't. You encompassed the entire duel, not just what you're trying to argue now.

Even more when you wrote "despite what Mandalore did" later on in the same very post.

When he got struck was when he was fighting unarmed.

Originally posted by Advent
It doesn't matter if Ulic was unarmed, one handed, hogtied, or not. Mandalore got a successful attack in on him, ergo not 'ownage'. This can be accounted due to the fact Mandalore broke his headgear, and sent him flying. I've never denied that it wasn't impressive, in fact, I've used the feat far more than you, and before you; but, again, "ownage" it was not.

He had to be juicing it up, since the comic shows differently than what he says.

No, the narration is as official as the pictures themselves. The omniscient (in other words, "all knowing", and since you seem incapable of understanding what that means, I'll tell you: whatever it says is indisputable, since it knows everything) narrator isn't a professional wrestling commentator.

Ulic only got hit when he was using no weapons.

Which is irrelevant, because he was still successfully attacked.

Except Mace vs. Sidious lasted a while

That's not the point, and what I said would stand regardless of if the fight lasted the entire movie. You were picking and choosing specific parts of the battle to support your statement that Ulic "pwned Mandalore". That's the equivalent of me leaving out the fact that Darth Sidious put an offensive fighter on the defensive, and only acknowledging Mace Windu's kick that disarmed him.

It's not just one part of the fight, it's the entire fight. Okay, Mandalore got the upper hand on him when Ulic put away his weapon.

Why do you continue to lie? And then go even further, and contradict yourself in the very next sentence?

How does that change the fact that Ulic ownded him with weapons? When they fought with weapons, Ulic owned him.

When they fought, Ulic didn't "own" him. That's my entire point, and you initially said the opposite happened; which, again, isn't true.

That's not what the comic shows.

The material doesn't show Qel-Droma being able to capitalize on the situation, and the narration is in my favour. In fact, on the next panel, we see them both standing on the chains.

Why would Ulic wait for an attack if he already had an opening? He wouldn't, as there are certainly ways he could've handled the situation non-lethally.

I take what the comic shows over what you think the definition of "hangs in the air" is.

Fine by me.

I really don't care too much that you see what you want to see, insomuch as it's clearly not the case. Explain what "the outcome [of the battle] hangs in the air" means. There's really no other way around my elaboration, as if the battle was in Ulic's favour, the outcome itself wouldn't be in murky waters.

He was trying to prove his superiority to Mandalore. With weapons he still owned him.

And? The entire bout itself wasn't 'pwnage', 'ownage', or any form of the word, which was your original claim.

as he well be using a weapon against Kas'im the unarmed portion of the fight doesn't matter since he's not going to be arrogant enough to put awya his saber while fighting Kas'im.

Irrelevant misdirection, much?

I don't recall mentioning Kas'im whatsoever. So, I don't see how this has anything to do with what I'm saying; don't add it in a point that's being addressed to me if it has nothing to with me.

He was supplied a mount, and lost it instantly. Ulic actually had to obtain his own mount, why didn't Mandalore get a new one? Why didn't he destroy Ulic mount in a single move, like Ulic did to him?

You must've missed the part where Ulic had a lightsaber, which cuts through almost any material.

I'd love to see Mandalore destroy a basilisk war droid with an axe akin to that of what King Arthur's blacksmiths would've made.

Will you admit that, when Ulic did use a weapon, he owned Mandalore?

What does it matter?

Will I admit that Ulic "pwned" Mandalore? No, because that's incorrect, and almost all of your statements up to this post have implied, or directly stated he did such.

It's riduculous that you don't think a one hit win is ownage just because of what the narrator says. How is a one hit win not ownage? Just because Mandalore got a hit in when Ulic was using no weapons doesn't change the afct that Ulic won in a single hit withw eapons, even though he had the disadvantage.

Originally posted by darthsith19
It's riduculous that you don't think a one hit win is ownage just because of what the narrator says.

Just because of what the narration dictates? I laughed out loud.

Again, why do you continue misrepresent my position? And then go even further, and contradict yourself in your following sentences?

How is a one hit win not ownage?

Originally posted by Advent

That's how.

I'm basically repeating myself by saying that you're picking and choosing specific parts of the battle to support your claim. If you look at the entire battle, it. was. not. 'ownage'. Moreover, it wasn't as if the battle was:

*ding the bells rings*

JR: Bah Gawd, Kang! What two great competet--

*Ulic Qel-Droma kicks Mandalore's ass without problems*

King: What was that, JR?

Mandalore turned Ulic into a cliff diver. I don't know you're so eager to say "z0mg airvent! he wuz teh unarmed!!!//!!", because it still doesn't disregard what is shown, which is: a) Mandalore getting a successful strike in, and b) that it was Ulic's own arrogant choice, meaning since he opted to fight unarmed, and started losing - it's his fault, and counts towards the deciding "word" for describing the battle.

Just because Mandalore got a hit in when Ulic was using no weapons doesn't change the afct that Ulic won in a single hit withw eapons, even though he had the disadvantage.

It changes the fact that it wasn't "ownage".

Really, there's no point in continuing the argument if you're not going to properly acknowledge the entire fight, narration, and on panel evidence included. As I said, I don't really care too much if you see what you want to see, as it's clearly not the case.

The armed fight was ownage. That pic was the unarmed fight. What you talked about was the unarmed fight. Ulic won't be fighting Kas'im without a weapon, so the unarmed fight doesn't matter, and what I said is still true, that the armed fight was Ulic, one-hit ownage.

Originally posted by darthsith19
The [b]armed fight was ownage. That pic was the unarmed fight.[/b]

You were talking about the entire battle. You cannot say that Ulic "pwned Mandalore", because he didn't, and that type of wording implies that's what happened throughout the entirety of the match.

What you talked about was the unarmed fight.

Irrelevant, much?

What I was addressing was the fact you were under the impression the full engagement was Qel-Droma beating the shit out of Mandalore. The unarmed portion of the duel is completely relevant to that.

It doesn't matter if Ulic did this or that after or before, because the fact remains: he was still effectively put on his ass.

Ulic won't be fighting Kas'im without a weapon, so the unarmed fight doesn't matter

Originally posted by Advent
Irrelevant misdirection, much?

I don't recall mentioning Kas'im whatsoever. So, I don't see how this has anything to do with what I'm saying; don't add it in a point that's being addressed to me if it has nothing to do with me.

and what I said is still true, that the armed fight was Ulic, one-hit ownage.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Despite pwning Mandalore

Originally posted by darthsith19
And he [b]did kick Mandalore's ass. Look at your pic again. Ulic puts away his lightsaber and fights Mandalore unarmed and still matches him.

Now, would you mind explaining to me which part of that isn't ownage? [/B]

Originally posted by darthsith19
Oh yeah, didn't see that part, but still, with weapons and disadvantages he was owning, the only time Mandalore gained the upper hand was when Ulic put away all his weapons. That's pretty much ownage.

On the ground? Of course they are standing on the ground. What has this got to do with Ulic owning Mandalore?

That's ownage, despite what Mandalore did when ulic was unarmed.

This is a collection of what you said, which clearly indicates you would consider the whole thing "ownage" on Ulic's part. That's wrong, as I've shown, and I could care less what you have to say when it comes to specific parts of the duel, or when you want to chalk your side up to the time he was "armed" only (when just before you clearly show you're referring to the whole shabangabang).

I admit that i was originally talking about he entire fight, but I'm not anymore. I now admit that the fight as a whole wasn't ownage, but still think that the armed battle was ownage in Ulic's favor.

Advent...

As long as Ulic had a weapon in hand he did kick the living shit out of Mandalore with apparent ease. That's obvious. After Ulic took Mandalore out of the air (with a single movement) he first gave him time to get a new weapon. Then he threw his own weapon away to give Mandalore a fair fight and Mandalore surprised him. That's what I call a "cheap shot".

Or let me put it like this. Using the force, Ulic could have easily killed Mandalore without even drawing his weapon. That would have been total ownage. Using his lightsaber in melee combat, he would have totally wiped the floor with Mandalore who's weapon / armor weren't a match for a lightsaber. Again the result would have been ownage.

That one single hit Mandalore managed to land on an unarmed an unprepared Ulic Qel-Droma would never have happened if Ulic hadn't sacrificed all his advantages to give Mandalore a "fair" fight. And it wouldn't have happened if Ulic had a weapon in his hand which is pretty apparent considering how he owned Mandalore with two actions basically.

As this is quite clear, I don't see why anybody should actually care about that hit.

Back to the topic:
Kas'im goes down. That he was the best in an era of relative weaklings doesn't really mean much to me. Bane managed to defeat him and Bane was below RotS Sidious where Kun (according to Kevin J. Anderson) is on par with DE Sidious. That actually gives us some nice clue how powerful Ulic was compared to Kas'im. An "astonishing transformation" which made the dude "ripple with Dark Side energy" when he was already quite the powerful Jedi before (owning - YES ! - Warb Null and Ommin, stalemating Kun) should be quite enough.

Saberwise Kas'im has more knowledge about styles, yes. I don't think that would help him much against a prodigious lightsaber wielder, equipped with an huge amount of force power and a deadly Sith amulet.

When did Anderson ever state that Exar is DE Sidious' equal?

Originally posted by Borbarad
Back to the topic:
Kas'im goes down. That he was the best in an era of relative weaklings doesn't really mean much to me. Bane managed to defeat him and Bane was below RotS Sidious where Kun (according to Kevin J. Anderson) is on par with DE Sidious. That actually gives us some nice clue how powerful Ulic was compared to Kas'im. An "astonishing transformation" which made the dude "ripple with Dark Side energy" when he was already quite the powerful Jedi before (owning - YES ! - Warb Null and Ommin, stalemating Kun) should be quite enough.

Saberwise Kas'im has more knowledge about styles, yes. I don't think that would help him much against a prodigious lightsaber wielder, equipped with an huge amount of force power and a deadly Sith amulet. [/B]

I, too, would like to knew when KJA said tht Kun = DE Sidious.