Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Bane is miles beyond Dooku. Sirak himself I would rate above Dooku, and Bane completely outclassed him, and Bane was still a student at the academy at the time.
Yeah, but imho, Bane was just that good by that time. Sirak was pretty powerful; he'd mastered multiple forms, it was said that he could master some sequences that it would take the other students weeks to learn, in hours so he was quite the prodigy, and he was pretty insanely fast too, stated to be able to move in blurs (not even Yoda could move in blurs).
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, but imho, Bane was just that good by that time. Sirak was pretty powerful; he'd mastered multiple forms, it was said that he could master some sequences that it would take the other students weeks to learn, in hours so he was quite the prodigy, and he was pretty insanely fast too, stated to be able to move in blurs (not even Yoda could move in blurs).
Lmao, dude. "Sirak above Dooku"? Right... Dooku was "one of the greatest Jedi in the history's order" and an "even greater Sith Lord". He is considered the greatest of the Lost Twenty and the Temple's most "learned" student.
Please. Dooku would ASSrape Sirak.
Relying on these quotes quite simply shows that you can't do so using in-story evidence. Dooku would not assrape Sirak. Sirak could move at speeds beyond what Yoda could, was quite the prodigy, and had mastered multiple forms, and could switch between them during combat. I'd put him above Dooku, he was likely one of the strongest in the entire BoD.
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Well I just read under the 'Darth Vader's Armour' entree, and that's not what it actually says.Darth Vader wears a unique set of dark armor. It is the equivalent of padded battle armor, imbued with dark side power through sith alchemical techniques
All that is, is that Vader's armour was constructed using sith alchemy, and it's the [b]amour
which is made stronger. It's completely different from Vader himself being pumped up with darkside energies.Prove it? Well seeing as both are receiving the darkside energies (Vader's not as I've shown above, but I'll work under the assumption that he was just to argue this point), and Bane's receiving even more powerups beside that, it's pretty obvious, there's not really anything to prove. [/B]
You're a fool. And a liar.
It does say that, and you've shown that the armor was constructed with Sith Alchemy, not disproved that it actively uses Sith chemicals to enhance Vader regularly. If you had bothered to read past that sentence, you would have found this:
"In addition to these attributes, the life support system is irrigated with Sith-crafted chemicals that enhance Vader's strength and constitution.
Two bloody sentences after.
Notice how it says in addition? That means that it is talking about a new aspect, and not being redundant, seeing as how there was one sentence in between the quote you posted and the one I posted. Also, you will notice that they are referring to different things.
And Darth "I can crush a lightsaber with my bare hands" Vader's mechanically enhanced base strength is greater than Bane's.
Thank you for playing.
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Relying on these quotes quite simply shows that you can't do so using in-story evidence. Dooku would not assrape Sirak. Sirak could move at speeds beyond what Yoda could, was quite the prodigy, and had mastered multiple forms, and could switch between them during combat. I'd put him above Dooku, he was likely one of the strongest in the entire BoD.
Nebaris, the omniscient narrator of the RotS novelization (G-canon, which means that it takes precedent over everything but the movies and George Lucas) confirms in Dooku's introduction that he was one of the greatest Jedi in history, and an even greater Dark Lord of the Sith. The AotC Visual Dictionary confirms him to be the greatest of the Lost Twenty because "the Force was so strong in him". And, lastly, Yoda claimed that Dooku was the "most learned" student of the Temple.
This is irrefutable.
Furthermore, Chee confirmed that the speeds in the movies do not contradict the EU speeds, period. But I suppose you forgot that part when you were in a hurry to try to discredit my quote about Sidious.
You're a fool. And a liar.It does say that, and you've shown that the armor was constructed with Sith Alchemy, not disproved that it actively uses Sith chemicals to enhance Vader regularly. If you had bothered to read past that sentence, you would have found this:
"In addition to these attributes, the life support system is irrigated with Sith-crafted chemicals that enhance Vader's strength and constitution.
Two bloody sentences after.Notice how it says in addition? That means that it is talking about a new aspect, and not being redundant, seeing as how there was one sentence in between the quote you posted and the one I posted. Also, you will notice that they are referring to different things.
Lol, dude, calm down, I can assure you my intentions weren't dishonest, I just couldn't be arsed to address the second statement, as I honestly thought it was the first one that you were referring to, and believed it was unnecessary.
Anyways, Sith-crafted chemicals do not equate to darkside energies, and given that we were actually arguing speed, what you brought up is essentially irrelevant, given that these chemicals only enhanced his strength and constitution.
And Darth "I can crush a lightsaber with my bare hands" Vader's mechanically enhanced base strength is greater than Bane's.Thank you for playing.
You do realise that we're arguing speed here, and not strength? You didn't fall asleep halfway through the argument again, did you JollyJimbo?
Anyways, you would only have an argument if Bane showed a lack of strength required to pull off such a feat. The fact is, he has:
1. Incredible natural physical strength, beyond that of Vader's.
2. Force strength and mastery (used to amplify physical strength) superior to that of Vader's, as well as lighter limbs, which would require less force power to affect.
3. Adrenaline constantly being pumped into his body (which would increase his strength).
4. Muscles constantly being strengthened.
5. Darkside energies constantly being pumped into his body (which can be used to augment his strength), which would be superior to the sith crafted chemicals Vader received, given the constant input.
Bane's stronger than Vader, get over it.
Originally posted by Gideon
Nebaris, the omniscient narrator of the RotS novelization (G-canon, which means that it takes precedent over everything but the movies and George Lucas) confirms in Dooku's introduction that he was one of the greatest Jedi in history, and an even greater Dark Lord of the Sith. The AotC Visual Dictionary confirms him to be the greatest of the Lost Twenty because "the Force was so strong in him". And, lastly, Yoda claimed that Dooku was the "most learned" student of the Temple.This is irrefutable.
What don't you get about none of that applying to Sirak? Sirak was never a jedi. Sirak was never one of the lost 20. The 'even greater sith' quote means squat. Dooku's superiority over Sirak can't be argued over out-of-universe quotes anyway, let alone in-universe evidence.
Furthermore, Chee confirmed that the speeds in the movies do not contradict the EU speeds, period. But I suppose you forgot that part when you were in a hurry to try to discredit my quote about Sidious.
What is your point? Dooku's speed remains roughly the same throughout both the movies and EU, so you're bringing this up in the wrong discussion.
Sirark wouldn't get ASSraped by Dooku, but he would lose. And Bane and Dooku are pretty even with blades, and this is PoD Bane I'm talking about, FP Bane would likely be a lot better.
Sirak was pretty powerful; he'd mastered multiple forms, it was said that he could master some sequences that it would take the other students weeks to learn, in hours so he was quite the prodigy, and he was pretty insanely fast too, stated to be able to move in blurs (not even Yoda could move in blurs).
What don't you get about none of that applying to Sirak?
Because Sirak essentially amounts to a little corn on a tiny piece of crap in the grand scheme of things; Dooku isn't.
Sirak was never a jedi.
Correct. Nor was he ever established as a "truly powerful Sith" in the grand scheme of things.
Sirak was never one of the lost 20.
Correct. But Dooku was, and was the greatest loss of these twenty.
The 'even greater sith' quote means squat.
This is where you're wrong. The RotS novelization (G-Canon, something that you nor your opinion aren't) establishes Dooku to be "an even greater Sith" by way of the omniscient narrator. You telling me "no, it means squat!" truly means squat, because it's there and it's irrefutable. And - to quote Queen - "there's nothin' you can do about it!" (great song by the way, "Headlong"😉
Dooku's superiority over Sirak can't be argued over out-of-universe quotes anyway, let alone in-universe evidence.
What part of "this was said by the omniscient narrator" do you not understand?
What is your point? Dooku's speed remains roughly the same throughout both the movies and EU, so you're bringing this up in the wrong discussion.
Dooku's speed is, thus, not necessarily slower than Sirak's. Period. And, if you think that this (Dooku's movie and EU speed being the same), I'd suggest reading... oh... just about every novel or comic in which Dooku features.