Batman vs Blade

Originally posted by Marvelknight
You know that can't count for anything because it didn't really happen. But it's your opinion and that's cool. And not to get off topic but Batman has the advantage in every category when compared to Frank, from tactical assessment to physical prowess.

But let's get back on topic. If you don't mind. Please tell me who are these dumb People with fighting skills that Batman usually fights. Not that you need to say. Because I know the Batman universe very well. And I can tell you that almost no one in Batman's rouges gallery should ever have the word dumb associated with them. Fighting skills or not, they are highly intelligent. Sure there are exceptions. But they are few in numbers and not the majority.

No the majority of Batman's rogues are highly intelligent, but it seems that the intelligence and brawn of his rogues are inversely proportional to one another.

Bane, Mark Desmond, Killer Croc, Maxie Zeus, Killer Moth, Solomon Grundy, Billy numerous, Bouncer, Band, Captain Stingaree, Condiment King, Crazy Quilt, Humpty Dumpty, The Monk, Dala.

Maybe dumb is a harsh word, but these characters have average intelligence at best. Same with the majority of nameless thugs Batman handles. Aside from Deathstroke I can't think of an opponent comparable to Blade that Bruce would go up against.

Grundy had a few incarnations that were actually highly intelligent. But I must say for the most part it is true. Though Bane is actually highly intelligent and a brick. He just lacks the skills to back up the strength and intelligence

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
No the majority of Batman's rogues are highly intelligent, but it seems that the intelligence and brawn of his rogues are inversely proportional to one another.

Bane, Mark Desmond, Killer Croc, Maxie Zeus, Killer Moth, Solomon Grundy, Billy numerous, Bouncer, Band, Captain Stingaree, Condiment King, Crazy Quilt, Humpty Dumpty, The Monk, Dala.

Maybe dumb is a harsh word, but these characters have average intelligence at best. Same with the majority of nameless thugs Batman handles. Aside from Deathstroke I can't think of an opponent comparable to Blade that Bruce would go up against.

Bane does not belong on that list of average intelligence characters at all. Solomon Grundy isn't really apart of Batman's rouges gallery. Since Batman doesn't usually fight againt him. But I guest you can say he is for the sake of the debate.

You asked who has Batman fought against who is comparable to Blade. Comparable in terms of what exactly, powers or fighting skills?

Well in terms of fighting skills:
Ra's al Ghul
The Sensei
Deathstroke
Lady Shiva
Bane
Bronze Tiger
Richard Dragon
David Cain
Wild Cat

In terms of powers:
Bane
The Mad Monk
Clayface
Killer Croc
Aquaman
Solomon Grundy

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Make no mistake, Joker has felt fear in his heart, instilled by Batman.

😆

Originally posted by Marvelknight
You know that can't count for anything because it didn't really happen. But it's your opinion and that's cool. And not to get off topic but Batman has the advantage in every category when compared to Frank, from tactical assessment to physical prowess.

Punisher is dirtier and to an extent possibly tougher.

Originally posted by Deadline
😆

Punisher is dirtier and to an extent possibly tougher.

WOW.... Ok, dirtier I may go with (but I disagree). And "possibly tougher"?? Come on, man. I'm sorry. But that statement couldn't be further from the truth. Frank is tougher how, physically, will of the mind? Hell no, let's be real. I've already made this point clear in my earlier post. Frank never walked away from what Bruce has in recent stories. No comparison in will power or determination at all what so ever. Sorry, but it's just not there.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Bane does not belong on that list of average intelligence characters at all. Solomon Grundy isn't really apart of Batman's rouges gallery. Since Batman doesn't usually fight againt him. But I guest you can say he is for the sake of the debate.

You asked who has Batman fought against who is comparable to Blade. Comparable in terms of what exactly, powers or fighting skills?

Well in terms of fighting skills:
Ra's al Ghul
The Sensei
Deathstroke
Lady Shiva
Bane
Bronze Tiger
Richard Dragon
David Cain
Wild Cat

In terms of powers:
Bane
The Mad Monk
Clayface
Killer Croc
Aquaman
Solomon Grundy

Originally posted by Marvelknight
WOW.... Ok, dirtier I may go with (but I disagree). And "possibly tougher"?? Come on, man. I'm sorry. But that statement couldn't be further from the truth. Frank is tougher how, physically, will of the mind? Hell no, let's be real. I've already made this point clear in my earlier post. Frank never walked away from what Bruce has in recent stories. No comparison in will power or determination at all what so ever. Sorry, but it's just not there.

Punisher is definitely mentally comparable, I remember when The Hood brought his wife and kids back Punisher took it upon himself to kill them again, meanwhile when Batman had the option of saving his parents (even though it would change time completely) he did and almost destroyed the DC universe.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
WOW.... Ok, dirtier I may go with (but I disagree). And "possibly tougher"?? Come on, man. I'm sorry. But that statement couldn't be further from the truth. Frank is tougher how, physically, will of the mind? Hell no, let's be real. I've already made this point clear in my earlier post. Frank never walked away from what Bruce has in recent stories. No comparison in will power or determination at all what so ever. Sorry, but it's just not there.

I would say Punisher definitively has the edge in durability, which is what I think Deadline meant by tougher. Frank is like a blunt damage sponge, easily meta human durability.

This is one of the problems I have with some KMC members in a debate. Making claims and statements about a character that has no base at all and just flat out wrong. For those of you who read Batman (and I mean more than a few comics) know full well that Punisher isn't "mentally comparable " nor is he physically tougher. And the best example I get is "The Hood brought his wife and kids back Punisher took it upon himself to kill them again"?? Really now? Well let me give a better example of what mental toughness is. Meditating in a cave for 49 days. Having your mind under go an mental break down via hypnotic suggestion, then injected with heroin and left for dead and still fight through it all only to end up buried alive while your mind is ravaged and drugged and still continue to fight trough, digging your self out through 600lbs of dirt. Mental toughness is when you're lock in a machine that's force feeding your mid false memories using telepathy, and fighting through it using your own traumatic memories as a weapon against it. Need I say more?

And Richard Dragon's statement about Batman being an "skilled amateur". How much weight do people really think that has, when it's well known that Bruce is no amateur in anything that he does? He constantly strives for perfection. Frank is just not more physically tougher. Any human without powers short of the likes of Steve Rogers do not even compare to Bruce, plain and simple.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
This is one of the problems I have with some KMC members in a debate. Making claims and statements about a character that has no base at all and just flat out wrong. For those of you who read Batman (and I mean more than a few comics) know full well that Punisher isn't "mentally comparable " nor is he physically tougher. And the best example I get is "The Hood brought his wife and kids back Punisher took it upon himself to kill them again"?? Really now? Well let me give a better example of what mental toughness is. Meditating in a cave for 49 days. Having your mind under go an mental break down via hypnotic suggestion, then injected with heroin and left for dead and still fight through it all only to end up buried alive while your mind is ravaged and drugged and still continue to fight trough, digging your self out. Mental toughness is when you're lock in a machine that's force feeding your mid false memories using telepathy, and fighting through it using your own traumatic memories as a weapon against it. Need I say more?

And Richard Dragon's statement about Batman being an "skilled amateur". How much weight do people really think that has, when it's well known that Bruce is no amateur in anything that he does? He constantly strives for perfection. Frank is just not more physically tougher. Any human without powers short of the likes of Steve Rogers do not even compare to Bruce, plain and simple.

I'm compared two scenarios in which they were placed under a similar mental strain, and punisher performed the better of the two, not see how even what you said placed batman completely out of punishers category.Batman is good no one denied that, but so is Punisher.

you're the one who brought up the instance, then you discredit it...

Originally posted by Trackz
I'm compared two scenarios in which they were placed under a similar mental strain, and punisher performed the better of the two, not see how even what you said placed batman completely out of punishers category.Batman is good no one denied that, but so is Punisher.

you're the one who brought up the instance, then you discredit it...

This people is yet another post that completely miss the big picture of what I'm talking about and undermining feats that clearly show greater displays of what metal toughness is all about.

Punisher is good. Batman is better.

Batman > Punisher < Blade < Batman.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
This people is yet another post that completely miss the big picture of what I'm talking about and undermining feats that clearly show greater displays of what metal toughness is all about.

Punisher is good. Batman is better.

Have you read the Punisher arc I'm speaking about to make such a statement? Do you read the Punisher at all?

I didn't undermine any feat, I showed an instance in which Batman cracks when put under a situation identical to one Punisher was put under.

notice I never stated who was better, but they are comparable to say the least.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Batman > Punisher < Blade < Batman.

That's pretty damn crazy

Originally posted by Trackz
Have you read the Punisher arc I'm speaking about to make such a statement? Do you read the Punisher at all?

I didn't undermine any feat, I showed an instance in which Batman cracks when put under a situation identical to one Punisher was put under.

notice I never stated who was better, but they are comparable to say the least.

I can make such a statement because I have a very clear understanding of who Batman is and you did not see the big picture in my post. You think that your examples proves that Franks mental fortitude is comparable. But it does not. No I do not read a lot of punisher nor do I know for sure that the situation Batman was in is not a pre-crisis story. But I do know that my examples are tougher situations that Batman has been in and came out of. And I know that if we take out Batman and put Punisher in the same situations I mentioned. It will not have the same outcome. Because their mental fortitudes are not on the same level. Mental fortitude has a lot to do with self control. Are we going to really get into a debate about who has more self control when comparing The Punisher to Batman? I think not.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I can make such a statement because I have a very clear understanding of who Batman is and you did not see the big picture in my post. You think that your examples proves that Franks mental fortitude is comparable. But it does not. No I do not read a lot of punisher nor do I know for sure that the situation Batman was in is not a pre-crisis story. But I do know that my examples are tougher situations that Batman has been in and came out of. And I know that if we take out Batman and put Punisher in the same situations I mentioned. It will not have the same outcome. Because their mental fortitudes are not on the same level. Mental fortitude has a lot to do with self control. Are we going to really get into a debate about who has more self control when comparing The Punisher to Batman? I think not.

for one the incident I mentioned was most assuredly not a pre-crisis storyline, it was from a Superman/Batman arc a couple of years ago. How can you accurately assess who the greater of the two is if you have little knowledge of one of the individuals being compared?

Moreover at it's core we have differing opinions on how to measure mental fortitude, they have differing morals no doubt about that, but at the end of the day I believe it has a lot to do with being able to make the hard decisions and not crack under the pressure, to go against overwhelming odds without a second thought. In this way I think they are comparable. However if you equate mental fortitude to self-control then yes Batman has more than the Punisher, since Punisher has little to none.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I can make such a statement because I have a very clear understanding of who Batman is and you did not see the big picture in my post. You think that your examples proves that Franks mental fortitude is comparable. But it does not. No I do not read a lot of punisher nor do I know for sure that the situation Batman was in is not a pre-crisis story. But I do know that my examples are tougher situations that Batman has been in and came out of. And I know that if we take out Batman and put Punisher in the same situations I mentioned. It will not have the same outcome. Because their mental fortitudes are not on the same level. Mental fortitude has a lot to do with self control. Are we going to really get into a debate about who has more self control when comparing The Punisher to Batman? I think not.

Look you're just blantantly dismissing what he said and making a biased argument. You don't just ignore feats because you feel like it, which is basically what you're doing.

Originally posted by Trackz
However if you equate mental fortitude to self-control then yes Batman has more than the Punisher, since Punisher has little to none.

Whoa, wrong.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
WOW.... Ok, dirtier I may go with (but I disagree).

So Batman bites and goes for the nuts when he fights? Of course you disagree he was a marine in the Vietnam war and that training has given him the edge over Steve in tactics, it was pretty much implied in there mini togther.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
And "possibly tougher"?? Come on, man. I'm sorry. But that statement couldn't be further from the truth. Frank is tougher how, physically,

The guy is Wolverine lite and takes horrific injuries that other street levelers would have hard time dealing with. The guy fought Daken with a broken leg and has fought h2h with his insides falling out. Sure other street levelers may have better durability showings but not the ability to withstand nasty injuries and wounds.

Originally posted by Marvelknight

will of the mind? Hell no, let's be real. I've already made this point clear in my earlier post. Frank never walked away from what Bruce has in recent stories. No comparison in will power or determination at all what so ever. Sorry, but it's just not there.

I think Bruce has better willpower but when The Hood tried to ressurect his family he had them burn't alive thats ****ing hardcore. Bruce ain't doin that shit. Hell at least Punisher has actually tried to change, Bruce think that killing is always bad non-stop, he doesn't seem to have the ability to see that sometimes his way of doing things is wrong.

Originally posted by Deadline
Look you're just blantantly dismissing what he said and making a biased argument. You don't just ignore feats because you feel like it, which is basically what you're doing.

Whoa, wrong.

I mean, Punisher does act on whim most of the time, but again you probably know more on the subject then me, I've only read Punishers most recent arcs and a couple of old stories.

Originally posted by Trackz
That's pretty damn crazy

Yeah, too many fireballs last night.