Greatest Rpg's Of All Time

errrrrrrrr r we SERIOUS?! mass effect/fallout plots do NOT compared to the plots of things like

xenogears
xenosaga series
.hack series
crono trigger
crono cross
vagrant story
shadow hearts series
final fantasy 6/9
kingdom hearts
shin megami tensei
etc

jrps have much better plots AND usually music. truly, nothing compares to the scores in crono cross, heck nuthing {other than ff-9} can even come close as far as the experience goes. the only thing western rpgs these days seem to good at are OPEN ENDED GAMEPLAY, i.e. exploring a world without rhyme or reason, like a massively multiplayer online rpg.

dont get me wrong, games like diablo/oblivion/mass effect are awesome for WHAT THEY ARE, but u cant comapare them favourably to sumthing like crono cross, just not possible.

and the best final fantasy was, is and always will be 9 , follow by 6.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Bash me all you want.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer

Face the FACTS:
JRPGs are better than WRPGs. In every aspect.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer

I've played a lot of JRPGs and WRPGs.
Comparing WoW or Fallout to any JRPG is either a joke or plain stupidity.

Fallout's story on the other hand cannot compare to that of Final Fantasy BUT its gameplay mechanics are superior to the vast majority of JRPG's.

I have already made it clear that i said JRPG games have better music and story, but as far as gameplay goes WRPG > JRPG

Originally posted by occultdestroyer

I'm American, but I'm not being "patriotic" about the shitty RPGs they've been making.

You just have a vendetta against WRPG

We Americans are good in FPS and sports games. Let's stick with those genres.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer

You can disagree with what I say, but it's the truth.
We suck at RPGs.

Just like how some people dislike the awesome movie the dark knight, there will always be people with different opinions and so far my opinions on this topic is being rationale.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

dont get me wrong, games like diablo/oblivion/mass effect are awesome for WHAT THEY ARE, but u cant comapare them favourably to sumthing like crono cross, just not possible.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
JRPGs are better than WRPGs. In every aspect.

1. Gameplay
2. Non-linearity
3. Vaster game world
4. More opportunity to explore said game world

Listen dude, stop acting like a weaboo.

I'll admit that generally JRPGs are above WRPGs in terms of plot and maybe even music, but to say JRPGs are better in every way is extremely biased and ignorant.

people, people, i feel like an uB3r n0OB asking this, wut does the j and w stand for infront of rpg?

Seriously?

Japan and Western

ive actually NEVER found the appeal of open ended world exploration without purpose. if its online then ofcourse theres that sense of being in a world with actual beings, but in things like fallout, i jost dont get the POINT! its gets so bloody boring. i mean yeah it can have its charm, bot not much more than that. and actually, a couple of jrpgs are superior in that aspect too, e.g. ICO and shadow of colossus {the huge world of dot hack also falls under here}

as for gameplay, i wud have to disagree, i dont think fallout or mass effect gameplay is better THAN CRONO CROSS OR VAGRANT STORY OR FF-9 OR XENOSAGA at all. its DIFFERENT, more glitchy, with less substantial graphic design and execution {in turn based, the way you attack actually has physically real implications as opposed to open ended free roaming rpgs} its like you hit open space, had glitches running into substance, being half in and half out, frame rate slowdown, and then after 2 second pass, the body of your opposition in dismembered in ways your weapon didnt even touch or damage them. i just find it far less satisfying than hitting sumthing with substance in j rpgs.

probably the main reason final fantasy 11 and 12 failed miserably as video games was because they tried to copy this type of pen ended element from western rpgs and ended up just making em shitty as hell.

Originally posted by I am who I am
Seriously?

Japan and Western

Yep

not that i use the terms JRPG or WRPG myself when i'm talking about Rpgs its all the same thing to me.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ive actually NEVER found the appeal of open ended world exploration without purpose. if its online then ofcourse theres that sense of being in a world with actual beings, but in things like fallout, i jost dont get the POINT! its gets so bloody boring. i mean yeah it can have its charm, bot not much more than that. and actually, a couple of jrpgs are superior in that aspect too, e.g. ICO and shadow of colossus {the huge world of dot hack also falls under here}

Your wrong, period. Did you forget something called opinions or do you need me to hand you a dictionary?

The majority of JRPG's are linear and offer almost no freedom to customize your character and doing so adds a uniqueness to that game you play rather than merely playing another character with a set story.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

as for gameplay, i wud have to disagree, i dont think fallout or mass effect gameplay is better THAN CRONO CROSS OR VAGRANT STORY OR FF-9 OR XENOSAGA at all.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

its DIFFERENT, more glitchy, with less substantial graphic design and execution

You want me to even start on graphics? Virtually none of the games you mentioned come even half as close to having substantial graphic design like fallout 3 and mass effect.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

{in turn based, the way you attack actually has physically real implications as opposed to open ended free roaming rpgs} its like you hit open space, had glitches running into substance, being half in and half out, frame rate slowdown, and then after 2 second pass, the body of your opposition in dismembered in ways your weapon didnt even touch or damage them. i just find it far less satisfying than hitting sumthing with substance in j rpgs.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

probably the main reason final fantasy 11 and 12 failed miserably as video games was because they tried to copy this type of pen ended element from western rpgs and ended up just making em shitty as hell.

And why? Opinions.

EDIT.

And i am sick of this "JRPG VS WRPG" bullshit, its as stupid and childish as "PS3 VS XBOX360" console wars.

Both versions have their pros and cons and i already made it clear i enjoy both of them, whether its JRPG or WRPG, hell both are the same to me with different styles.

And whoever started this shit is a ****ing idiot thats just wasting everybodies time.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Your wrong, period. Did you forget something called opinions or do you need me to hand you a dictionary?

The majority of JRPG's are linear and offer almost no freedom to customize your character and doing so adds a uniqueness to that game you play rather than merely playing another character with a set story.
Your being extremely ignorant, i have played xenosaga, i have played almost all the final fantasies(and them being almost identical in gameplay save for different leveling systems and different battle schemes) and they DO NOT offer the freedom and choices that WRPG's do so.

You want me to even start on graphics? Virtually none of the games you mentioned come even half as close to having substantial graphic design like fallout 3 and mass effect.

You must never have heard of euphoria or certain game engines then.

Did you even play FFXI? And neither of them fail miserably as games, Hell the majority of japanese people who played 12 LOVED it more so than they did to 7 and 10.

And why? Opinions.

EDIT.

And i am sick of this "JRPG VS WRPG" bullshit, its as stupid and childish as "PS3 VS XBOX360" console wars.

Both versions have their pros and cons and i already made it clear i enjoy both of them, whether its JRPG or WRPG, hell both are the same to me with different styles.

And whoever started this shit is a ****ing idiot thats just wasting everybodies time.

so i assume im talking to a child here. an angry child.

just because you say sumthing does not make it so, or did you forget to use common sense. and your ignorance is amazing, have you even PLAYED crono cross, it gives more customization than any game u have mentioned thus far, it has over 50 individuals characters with ther own fully develped stories, over 8 endings, new game plus, and free roaming where every decision you make develops your characters, changes the world in vastlty different ways, develops your characters, lets you acquire certain items and characters etc etc. it just has a greater storyline following, which is absent from most jrpgs.

and freedom of choice is only significant if it CONTRIBUTES to the quality of the gaming experience, seeing as most j rpgs have diconnected, emotionally uninvolving greater plots, this freedom wot do whatever you want doesnt mean crap.

and maybe you werent paying attention or probably just havent played the games i mentioned, seeing as they are from the LAST GENERATION of consoles and game design, ofcourse they arent going to uprght have the same capabilities as fallout. still doesnt mean the glitches and the problems i mentioned arent present in fallout and absent in the games i mentioned.

yes i did, and there is a difference between popularity based on the popularity of an industry and quality of a game. im sure, resistance sold more copies than crono trigger, does that mean resistance is a better game than crono cross????? dont be a fool

jrpgs seem to beat wrpgs most of the time, other than pointless free roaming or mmorpg like atmosphere. and even there, there are the exceptions like ico and shadow of colossus in japanese gaming which beat them.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
truly, nothing compares to the scores in crono cross, heck nuthing {other than ff-9} can even come close as far as the experience goes.

I doubt there will ever be another RPG that will surpass the gaming experience of Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger.
It has that 'magic' in it that makes it unforgettable.
The story, the music, the gameplay.. the whole journey was magical.
Replay value is priceless. You can play it over and over again. It's a timeless classic, I must say.
Everytime I look at a scene from CT/CC, it makes me wanna say to myself, "How I'd love to play that game once more".

There's a fair amount of irony here. I very much recognise the value of the JRPG approch, but...

FFIX was a reverse for Square; it misfired, sold worse than expected (also due to a marketing cock up with the strrat guide) and caused them to abandon that approach entirely, which paid off as FFX did great. IX's story is... rather dull, and it suffers badly from 'irrelevant extra enemy I don't care about' syndrome at the end.

Chrono Cross- beautfioful and evocative as it is- has a confusing mess of a storylien that no two people can actually agree on and this also alienated a lot of players- not to mention that it's simply unfocussed. Layering on extra characters and putting tiogether all that magic combo nonsense... both examples of how more does not equal better. Most of the characters were not interesting and were not cared about, and the magic system was a sprawling mess. All of which is a disappointing contrast to Chrono Trigger which is the opposite- tight and entertaining battles, highly identifiable characters full of personality. And of course, we saw no more of Chrono after Cross either. The focus has always been on Trigger being the big one; Cross was an experiment that didn't really work out. You are, incidentally, massively over-stating the extent to which yuo could change the world in that game (and whilst I am there, people nearly always mis-appropriate the 'different endings in both Chrono games to make it seem as if you can affect the storyline to end in multiple ways. You cannot; the storyline only has one direction with two endings apiece, and those not being plot-shattering differences but only variants, and meanwhile you can unlock a bunch of basically joke endings by ending the games at the wrong times on a subsequent playthrough- not the same thing as what most people understand by a game haeing different endings- not even close to, say, KOTOR's Light Side/Dark Side split, annoying as that system was)

So in fact those examples are very good ones to ATTACK the genre with, not support. Cross in particular is a game hyped at the time and has never looked so smart in retrospect- anaother contrast to Trigger.

Not being biased here of course- as is well known around here, I'll happily trash KOTOR (well, specially the sequel) and the likes of Oblivion also.

That being the case, I am pretty sure Baldur's Gate II gets my vote. With the customisation and multiplayer possibilites added in that thing was just in a class of its own.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
There's a fair amount of irony here. I very much recognise the value of the JRPG approch, but...

FFIX was a reverse for Square; it misfired, sold worse than expected (also due to a marketing cock up with the strrat guide) and caused them to abandon that approach entirely, which paid off as FFX did great. IX's story is... rather dull, and it suffers badly from 'irrelevant extra enemy I don't care about' syndrome at the end.

Chrono Cross- beautfioful and evocative as it is- has a confusing mess of a storylien that no two people can actually agree on and this also alienated a lot of players- not to mention that it's simply unfocussed. Layering on extra characters and putting tiogether all that magic combo nonsense... both examples of how more does not equal better. Most of the characters were not interesting and were not cared about, and the magic system was a sprawling mess. All of which is a disappointing contrast to Chrono Trigger which is the opposite- tight and entertaining battles, highly identifiable characters full of personality. And of course, we saw no more of Chrono after Cross either. The focus has always been on Trigger being the big one; Cross was an experiment that didn't really work out. You are, incidentally, massively over-stating the extent to which yuo could change the world in that game (and whilst I am there, people nearly always mis-appropriate the 'different endings in both Chrono games to make it seem as if you can affect the storyline to end in multiple ways. You cannot; the storyline only has one direction with two endings apiece, and those not being plot-shattering differences but only variants, and meanwhile you can unlock a bunch of basically joke endings by ending the games at the wrong times on a subsequent playthrough- not the same thing as what most people understand by a game haeing different endings- not even close to, say, KOTOR's Light Side/Dark Side split, annoying as that system was)

So in fact those examples are very good ones to ATTACK the genre with, not support. Cross in particular is a game hyped at the time and has never looked so smart in retrospect- anaother contrast to Trigger.

Not being biased here of course- as is well known around here, I'll happily trash KOTOR (well, specially the sequel) and the likes of Oblivion also.

That being the case, I am pretty sure Baldur's Gate II gets my vote. With the customisation and multiplayer possibilites added in that thing was just in a class of its own.

The storyline is quite simple to grasp, if you know how to analyze details which were mentioned in the game.
IMHO, CC had one of the best storylines in RPGs.

Yes, it did leave some plot holes from CT.
But it was corrected since the release of the DS version of CT.

I read absolutely everything and I would happily consider myself an expert at analysing details of RP plots- and the plot is still a confusing ill-planned mess, as often happens to JRPG plots I am afraid- major plot holes in most of them. I actually feel the problem may be that you have not analysed it enough and papered over the cracks of it in your mind; certainly trying to imply that it is simple is ridiculous- it confused the hell out of most people playing it.

Fact of the matter is that JRPGs do tend to lose the focus of their plots over the course of the game and they are often left with large sections that were irrelevant, meaningless or both.

Not entirely sure what you mean by Cross being underrated though; it got very good reviews. And it's still a good game incidentally, but it does illustrate certain deficiencies.

Originally posted by Ushgarak

Not entirely sure what you mean by Cross being underrated though; it got very good reviews. And it's still a good game incidentally, but it does illustrate certain deficiencies.

Oh well that's good.

I have a review of that one actually.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=435250&pagenumber=15

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Oh well that's good.

I have a review of that one actually.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=435250&pagenumber=15

I really do hope Square Enix makes a remake of either CT or CC in full 3D for the current gen consoles, without changing anything in the plot, except make the final boss the same with the DS version of CT.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
so i assume im talking to a child here. an angry child.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

just because you say sumthing does not make it so,

Now i respect that you dislike WRPG's, but please don't even try to convince me that genre is all crap, i only ask you do the same.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

or did you forget to use common sense. and your ignorance is amazing, have you even PLAYED crono cross, it gives more customization than any game u have mentioned thus far, it has over 50 individuals characters with ther own fully develped stories, over 8 endings, new game plus, and free roaming where every decision you make develops your characters, changes the world in vastlty different ways, develops your characters, lets you acquire certain items and characters etc etc. it just has a greater storyline following, which is absent from most jrpgs.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

and freedom of choice is only significant if it CONTRIBUTES to the quality of the gaming experience, seeing as most j rpgs have diconnected, emotionally uninvolving greater plots, this freedom wot do whatever you want doesnt mean crap.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

jrpgs seem to beat wrpgs most of the time, other than pointless free roaming or mmorpg like atmosphere. and even there, there are the exceptions like ico and shadow of colossus in japanese gaming which beat them.

Ok, as ever, let's cool it down here folks. No more insults please.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
There's a fair amount of irony here. I very much recognise the value of the JRPG approch, but...

FFIX was a reverse for Square; it misfired, sold worse than expected (also due to a marketing cock up with the strrat guide) and caused them to abandon that approach entirely, which paid off as FFX did great. IX's story is... rather dull, and it suffers badly from 'irrelevant extra enemy I don't care about' syndrome at the end.

Chrono Cross- beautfioful and evocative as it is- has a confusing mess of a storylien that no two people can actually agree on and this also alienated a lot of players- not to mention that it's simply unfocussed. Layering on extra characters and putting tiogether all that magic combo nonsense... both examples of how more does not equal better. Most of the characters were not interesting and were not cared about, and the magic system was a sprawling mess. All of which is a disappointing contrast to Chrono Trigger which is the opposite- tight and entertaining battles, highly identifiable characters full of personality. And of course, we saw no more of Chrono after Cross either. The focus has always been on Trigger being the big one; Cross was an experiment that didn't really work out. You are, incidentally, massively over-stating the extent to which yuo could change the world in that game (and whilst I am there, people nearly always mis-appropriate the 'different endings in both Chrono games to make it seem as if you can affect the storyline to end in multiple ways. You cannot; the storyline only has one direction with two endings apiece, and those not being plot-shattering differences but only variants, and meanwhile you can unlock a bunch of basically joke endings by ending the games at the wrong times on a subsequent playthrough- not the same thing as what most people understand by a game haeing different endings- not even close to, say, KOTOR's Light Side/Dark Side split, annoying as that system was)

So in fact those examples are very good ones to ATTACK the genre with, not support. Cross in particular is a game hyped at the time and has never looked so smart in retrospect- anaother contrast to Trigger.

Not being biased here of course- as is well known around here, I'll happily trash KOTOR (well, specially the sequel) and the likes of Oblivion also.

That being the case, I am pretty sure Baldur's Gate II gets my vote. With the customisation and multiplayer possibilites added in that thing was just in a class of its own.

actually. IX's story is AMAZING. convoluted does not necessarily mean GOOD/developed. the enemies and the spells/tech/development were brilliant in 9. the game had the IT factor that makes or breaks a game. what you are talking about is how it looks like on paper, for BOTH games.

actually, the storyline of crono cross is completely uncontradictory, open ended gameplay at its best. magic comboing was one of the EASIEST things i have ever known in any rpg, its only colours and three parts of the field my friend, any1 can understand how it works, as well as multiple techs. magic system was BRILLIANT! what are u TALKING about?! as for the characters, if you actually USE them at the proper events and develop their individual storyline, ull find that there is almost NO character which cudnt stand up on its own in the game alone. its truly miraculous what square achieved there. and we do see crono at the end. if u think about it, crono was more the silent protagonist than anything, and the stoory and major characters{kid anyone!} are very much linked as well as the frozen flame etc. and the two endings are VASTLY different.

sigh, u honestly have very bad taste if you think final fantasy 9 and crono cross are the WORST that the genre has to offer. they are possibly the greatest games ever made. cross is different from trigger but actually SURPASSES trigger. they also happen to me some of the most underrated and forgotten games ever.

baldur's gate has always been repetitive and lacking an imaginatively developing plot and catchy characters and worlds.

You are going to have to accept that you are not in a majority in seeing IX as the most amazing FF story, and that is jnside the subset of peopl that likle FF stories.

Meanwhile, I diodn't say Cross' story was contradictory- although it is- I said it was convulted and overly complex, which it defnitely is, and the fact still remains that the typical player never fully understood it, which is in part due to its base compelxity- a mistake- and in part due to a poor job done in telling it- another mistake. This was partially because it was rushed and elements were not finsihed, like the Magis plotline (dumped but elements left in) and what the hell was going on with Poire ont eh mainland (dumped but left in and only ever explaiend in an interview).

I also never said they were the worst games the genre has to offer; did you actually read my post?

I suspect you have only played ther console BG games. If you are talking about the [proper ones then that is not an impressive opinion you hold there.