Originally posted by Bardock42I have no "beef" with their legislation. I think they did whatever they felt was appropriate. But I am sick of Starhawk touting Canada's "moral superiority" just because they limit the freedom of speech.
W-why?I know you love the US, but other countries have intelligent legislation, too.
Not that I agree with Starhawk. Just generally.
In short: No problem with Canada or their banning of hate speech, but a problem with Starhawk.
Re: The Thought Police (new hate crimes law)...
Originally posted by sithsaber408
[b]The Thought Police
By Chuck Colson
5/1/2007What the Hate Crimes Law Would Do
In George Orwell’s classic novel 1984, the government Thought Police constantly spies on citizens to make sure they are not thinking rebellious thoughts. Thought crimes are severely punished by Big Brother.
1984 was intended as a warning against totalitarian governments that enslave and control their citizens. Never have we needed this warning more urgently than now, because America’s Thought Police are knocking on your door.
Last week the House Judiciary Committee, egged on by radical homosexual groups, passed what can only be called a Thought Crimes bill. It’s called the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act. But this bill is not about hate. It’s not even about crime. It’s about outlawing peaceful speech—speech that asserts that homosexual behavior is morally wrong.
Some say we need this law to prevent attacks on homosexuals. But we already have laws against assaults on people and property. Moreover, according to the FBI, crimes against homosexuals in the United States have dropped dramatically in recent years. In 2005, out of 863,000 cases of aggravated assault, just 177 cases were crimes of bias against homosexuals—far less than even 1 percent.
Another problem is that in places where hate crimes laws have been passed, hate crimes have been defined to include verbal attacks—and even peaceful speech. The Thought Police have already prosecuted Christians under hate crimes laws in England, Sweden, Canada, and even in some places in the United States.
If this dangerous law passes, pastors who preach sermons giving the biblical view of homosexuality could be prosecuted. Christian businessmen who refuse to print pro-gay literature could be prosecuted. Groups like Exodus International, which offer therapy to those with unwanted same-sex attraction, could be shut down.
In classic 1984 fashion, peaceful speech will be redefined as a violent attack worthy of punishment.
This is the unspoken goal of activist groups. We know this because during the debate over the bill last week, Congressman Mike Pence (R) of Indiana offered a Freedom of Religion amendment to this hate crimes bill. It asked that nothing in this law limit the "religious freedom" of any person or group under the Constitution. The committee refused to adopt it. It also refused to adopt amendments protecting other groups from hate crimes—like members of the military, who are often targets of verbal attacks and spitting. They also shot down amendments that would protect the homeless and senior citizens, also often targeted by criminals. Nothing doing, the committee said—the only group they wanted to protect: homosexuals.
Clearly, the intent of this law is not to prevent crime, but to shut down freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of thought. Its passage would strike at the very heart of our democracy.
The full Congress may vote on this bill as early as this week. Unless you want Big Brother telling you what to say, what to think, and what to believe, I urge you to contact your congressman immediately, urging him or her to vote against this bill. If you visit the BreakPoint website, you’ll find more information about this radical law.
If we do nothing, 1984 will no longer be fiction, and Big Brother will be watching you and me—ready to punish the “wrong” thoughts.
^^^Read that editorial today.
Now while I'm not for anybody being hit or hurt, or even demeaned for race, gender, orientation, etc.....
I don't want somebody arresting my pastor because as a minister he gives the Bible's view on homosexuality.
Thoughts? [/B]
HHmm....I think private churches should be able to say whatever the hell they want, and reap thier own consequences (such as losing Gay followers, and families of Gay followers, as well as financial and social support from Gay and Gay freindly sources)
However, this poses the question....what do we do about Shirley Phelps Roper and the Westboro Baptist Church ?
Do we just sit back and watch what happens as a result of thier brainwashing of children to hate Gays and Lesbians ? Do we just sit there and listen to thier anti-gay rallies, etc ?
I am not against Freedom of Speech, but Freedom of Speech is NOT absolute Sith, and the Constitution does NOT protect Hate Speech...it never did.
Maybe you are fine with anti-gay, pro-straight propaganda, maybe you are okay with the no-gay marriage, "stay back in the closet" mentalities and such that some Right Wingers promote...
But if you are okay with such things, then you should have absolutely no problem with people not wanting the Bible as part of the school cirriculum, with total separation of church and state, with no prayer aloud in public school, with Christ being taken out of Christmas, etc.
You can't be for Freedom of Speech only in certain cases, and then say that other speeches are wrong and shouldn't be....that's extremely, extremely hypocritical.
And you know what...honestly???...if you don't want Gay Marriage, if you want a limit and restraint of Gay pride marches and media, and if you want schools to teach abstinence only, etc. Fine...
You know what ?
Then Iwant the Bible completely banned from the Education system, and from the work place.....I want churches away from my neighborhood, I want no religious marches or rallies, keep it in your church where it belongs, I don't want to see Christian programs on my damn cable, I will sue every single man or woman who comes to my door, my fkn property, with thier "good news" and Christian pamphlets....
Fair is Fair...does that sound good to you? 😬
HHmm....I think private churches should be able to say whatever the hell they want, and reap thier own consequences (such as losing Gay followers, and families of Gay followers, as well as financial and social support from Gay and Gay freindly sources)However, this poses the question....what do we do about Shirley Phelps Roper and the Westboro Baptist Church ?
Do we just sit back and watch what happens as a result of thier brainwashing of children to hate Gays and Lesbians ? Do we just sit there and listen to thier anti-gay rallies, etc ?
As long as they don't preach violence against homosexuals, yes that is exactly what you do. It's their right to say whatever they want.
Maybe you are fine with anti-gay, pro-straight propaganda, maybe you are okay with the no-gay marriage, "stay back in the closet" mentalities and such that some Right Wingers promote...But if you are okay with such things, then you should have absolutely no problem with people not wanting the Bible as part of the school cirriculum, with total separation of church and state, with no prayer aloud in public school, with Christ being taken out of Christmas, etc.
And all of those things should be done, except for the Christ Christmas thing as it is a Christian holiday and part of the history of the holiday. Now it would be okay to cancel it as a national holiday and just forget about it. However it's just stupid to take Christ out of a Christian holiday.
Originally posted by Strangelove
I have no "beef" with their legislation. I think they did whatever they felt was appropriate. But I am sick of Starhawk touting Canada's "moral superiority" just because they limit the freedom of speech.In short: No problem with Canada or their banning of hate speech, but a problem with Starhawk.
Show me where I used the term Moral Superiority even once.
So you admit that your opinion is not based on facts on objective views, but on subjective personal dislike.
Originally posted by Fishy
As long as they don't preach violence against homosexuals, yes that is exactly what you do. It's their right to say whatever they want.
There is a thin line between preaching and hate speech.
Hate promotes Hostility, and Hostility promotes Violence. Hate Speech should not be tolerated.
Originally posted by Fishy
And all of those things should be done, except for the Christ Christmas thing as it is a Christian holiday and part of the history of the holiday. Now it would be okay to cancel it as a national holiday and just forget about it. However it's just stupid to take Christ out of a Christian holiday.
Christmas is not a Christian holiday....it was a Pagan holiday which Christian conquerors adopted into thier own. It is also a national holiday, the one day/week of the year we take off from work/school/etc. and the economy gets a nice fat boost of $$$
I do not seriously propose we remove Christ from Christmas, but I was making a point about Sithsaber's demands.
Originally posted by FeceMan
I don't quite understand the point of hate crime laws...shouldn't anyone acting violently against another person be prosecuted with little regard to his or her motivation?
Although in reality the reason/motivation is sort of irrelevant when compared to the murder itself....Hate Crime Laws are aimed to protect specific groups of people who are normally targetted.
It serves as a message to hate groups and people who target people they do not know, simply for hate for thier race/orientation/religion, etc.
Most murders are done either out of passion, or at least when the murderer knew the person for a long time.
Hate Crimes are normally done sporadically and on the moment. They are done for no other reason than Hate.
I mean...ur opinion is your opinion...i personally think the Statuatory Rape Laws are bullshit....
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
There is a thin line between preaching and hate speech.Hate promotes Hostility, and Hostility promotes Violence. Hate Speech should not be tolerated.
No it's quite easy actually.
A preacher saying
"Homosexuality is wrong, it's gross god will curse all homosexuals and throw them into hell. Homosexuals should do society a favor and just jump off a building"
is insane, however expressing an opinion a preacher or somebody else saying
"Homosexuality is wrong, we should kill all homo's"
is asking people to commit a crime and therefor doing something wrong.
[B]Christmas is not a Christian holiday....it was a Pagan holiday which Christian conquerors adopted into thier own. It is also a national holiday, the one day/week of the year we take off from work/school/etc. and the economy gets a nice fat boost of $$$I do not seriously propose we remove Christ from Christmas, but I was making a point about Sithsaber's demands.
Yeah it used to be, and America used to have blacks as slaves. Currently it is a Christian holiday and has been so for at least 1600 years, everybody knows it as a Christian holiday so that's all that matters...
I don't quite understand the point of hate crime laws...shouldn't anyone acting violently against another person be prosecuted with little regard to his or her motivation?
Motivation often has to do with impact, for instance if you are a cop and you shoot a subject because he's black that would piss off a lot of people, if you would however shoot a subject because he's dangerous that's okay...
If you kill somebody because he or she is Jewish that is worse then just killing somebody for money.
It has to do with the likely hood of you committing the crime again, hate crimes are against groups of people you hate and there are usually a lot of them so you are far more likely to commit the same crime again, and thus need to be removed from society for a longer period of time.
Originally posted by StarhawkDid I say that you used the phrase moral superiority? No. I used it. But that is how you're presenting yourself.
Show me where I used the term Moral Superiority even once.So you admit that your opinion is not based on facts on objective views, but on subjective personal dislike.
And we already confirmed that it was an opinion. Shall I remind you?
Originally posted by Starhawk
You can think it's wrong all you want. That's your opinion, but it's not fact.
Originally posted by Strangelove
Well it's your opinion that it's a good thing. Also not fact.