Superman vs. Goku

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Filler isn't non-canon, its secondary canon and is good so long as it doesn't contradict anything in primary canon.

No, only the original manga is canon, because that's the only part written by Toriyama.

Filler episodes make no sense and are full of crappy writing and plot holes.

Do you want me to bring up the one where Goku and Picollo were struggling to lift a school bus?

In fact there's a major problem with just that one episode: If the ship was going that fast, that star would have approached/passed the ship in a tiny fraction of a second, and they wouldn't have a whole episode about it (and Goku had a conversation with people on Earth in that episode regarding the situation, so don't try the "it was all happening in super speed" excuse).

Goku wins until I see Superman recreate a solar system busting attack. Oh and SSJ Gotenks went around the earth 7x's in a second.

And when did Goku create a solar system destroying attack? Oh yea cell said he was gonna do it so Goku can do it and he can also destroy the universe in ssj3 right?

It was 30+ time in about 20-25mins, no where near light speed.

Well if Cell could do it why argue that SSJ 3 Goku couldn't? What, he magically got weaker despite Vegita mocking how weak Cell was in the same saga?

Oh and they flew around the world 7x's in one panel (you can even see the vapor trail) then took a nap for the rest of the time.

Except there's no proof that Cell could do it. He just claimed he could but never showed that power, and people much stronger than him much later on never showed that kind of power.

He was obviously just bluffing.

Why would he bluff? Cell was just that good. Prove that Cell couldn't flatten a Solar System

Where all the DBZ crap comes from

1. Non canon - Especially the moves 'oh broly destroyed a galaxy'

2. Filler - It IS non-canon , secondary canon is a crappy excuse created by Lucas so he could drain more cash out of fans without getting off his ass to undo plot tangles.

3. Confusion of Physical strength = Spiritual strength - Just because you can blow up a planet with your ki doesn't mean you can punch one in half.

4. Hyperbole - 'Father your going to destroy the whole planet' just doesn't cut it.

It's impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on you to prove he could.

As for why he would, it's because he was an egomaniac who was drunk with power and believe himself to be perfect and invincible, and when he said that he had just gotten another powerup and was more full of himself than ever.

Not that it would even have been a problem to Superman if it was true, as he has taken the blasts of exploding sun - eaters which are greater than supernovae (and can weaken him with red sun radiation).

4. Hyperbole - 'Father your going to destroy the whole planet' just doesn't cut it. [/B]

Actually it's quite believable that Vegeta could have destroyed the earth at that point, (Frieza who was weaker than him could do it), but it just didn't happen since most of the blast flew harmlessly into space.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It's impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on you to prove he could.

I have a direct quote partner, your rebuttal is he's never displayed that amount of power before. When has Cell shown he couldn't do something with ease?

Not that it would even have been a problem to Superman if it was true, as he has taken the blasts of exploding sun - eaters which are greater than supernovae (and can weaken him with red sun radiation).

And has gotten ko'd by Gas Stations

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Well if Cell could do it why argue that SSJ 3 Goku couldn't? What, he magically got weaker despite Vegita mocking how weak Cell was in the same saga?

Oh and they flew around the world 7x's in one panel (you can even see the vapor trail) then took a nap for the rest of the time.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, only the original manga is canon, because that's the only part written by Toriyama.

That isn't how canon works. Anything published with the franchise name is canon, either primary or secondary. If canon was depended on one writer then manga would be the only medium capable of having a canon story line... but that isn't the case is it?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Filler episodes make no sense and are full of crappy writing and plot holes.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Do you want me to bring up the one where Goku and Picollo were struggling to lift a school bus?

Their strength levels are depended on chi. Chi auroras, as shown in the Cell games, are dangerous to normal people with in a certain proximity. They were low balling it so no to kill a bus load of children?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
In fact there's a major problem with just that one episode: If the ship was going that fast, that star would have approached/passed the ship in a tiny fraction of a second, and they wouldn't have a whole episode about it (and Goku had a conversation with people on Earth in that episode regarding the situation, so don't try the "it was all happening in super speed" excuse).

Speed is relative. If you can run at the speed of light and perceive/react to the world at the same speed, in your perspective it would take just as long to run a mile as it would a normal man.

Anyway Clearly Dr. Briefs has some sort of super communications device that can't even be comprehended. Goku was thousands of light years away and somehow he was getting radio/television signals to the ship. 😈

Superman has sneezed away a solar system.

Which is about as canon as Broly destroying Galaxies

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Superman has sneezed away a solar system.

Which is about as canon as Broly destroying Galaxies

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
I have a direct quote partner, your rebuttal is he's never displayed that amount of power before. When has Cell shown he couldn't do something with ease?

He's never showed anything on that level.

[B]Not that it would even have been a problem to Superman if it was true, as he has taken the blasts of exploding sun - eaters which are greater than supernovae (and can weaken him with red sun radiation).

And has gotten ko'd by Gas Stations [/B]

You take Byrne seriously?

Broly actually blew up Galaxies.

Goku > Broly and in DB A>B>C logic is actually an accurate way of judging power.

Goku wins again.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
He's never showed anything on that level.

Why would he need to?

Did he show he was capable of blowing up the moon? Nah

Do we know he was capable of blowing up the moon? Hell yeah

You take Byrne seriously?

I take him as serious as Loeb and the rest of the Superman street team.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That isn't how canon works. Anything published with the franchise name is canon, either primary or secondary. If canon was depended on one writer then manga would be the only medium capable of having a canon story line... but that isn't the case is it?

That's the way it works for most mangas/animes (unless the creator him/herself makes an official statement otherwise).

Find a statement by Toriyama that says the fillers are canon, or they're not.

Dragonball Z episodes make no sense and are full of crappy writing and plot holes on their own

The manga is much better than the anime when it comes to this.

Their strength levels are depended on chi. Chi auroras, as shown in the Cell games, are dangerous to normal people with in a certain proximity. They were low balling it so no to kill a bus load of children?

And Goku could fight Buu at SSJ3 with Mr. Satan/Hercule right in the area? You're really reaching here. He's powered up in front of plenty of normal humans, it's never hurt them.

Speed is relative. If you can run at the speed of light and perceive/react to the world at the same speed, in your perspective it would take just as long to run a mile as it would a normal man.

Anyway Clearly Dr. Briefs has some sort of super communications device that can't even be comprehended. Goku was thousands of light years away and somehow he was getting radio/television signals to the ship.

That they have FTL comms is a given. But unless you want to claim that Dr. Briefs can think and talk at super speed, then you've got nothing.

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Why would he need to.

[B]You take Byrne seriously?

I take him as serious as Loeb and the rest of the Superman street team. [/B]

You know he's gotten far stronger since then.

Should I start using feats from Goku at the beginning of Dragonball to prove he's weak?

There is no quantifiable way to define how much more powerful Superman has gotten. With Goku you could use PL's to prove he's hundreds of million times stronger, with Superman it's just opinion