Where have the Bonds haters gone..?

Originally posted by BobbyD
Ro, this is where you and shall agree to disagree. I understand how you feel. And, you have every right to feel that way. The thing is I feel that Barry was always one the best baseball players period, juice or no juice. It hasn't been proven that's he taken them. But, I personally feel that he has.

When you get (IMO) one the best baseball players to ever play the game, in today's era (sports nutrition, modern tech, training) with his skills (better than fighter pilot vision, perfect balance through the swinging zone, ability to recognize a pitch 6 inches out of the pitcher's hand), I'm afraid the results are what you see. I mean, does it ever occur to anyone how amazing it is that he can turn on a high inside fastball and jerk it out of the park w/o fouling the pitch off in this face? I mean he contorts his whole body to pull the ball, and yet still keeps it fair? How is that possible? Steriods? Bah.

And, let's not forget the guy has ripped off 500+ career stolen bases, and has umpteen Gold Gloves. Are we going contribute that success to steriods too?

Again, for the record, I will say that he's taken them. They have allowed him to compete and at an insanely unusual pace (today)...to me that's sufficient evidence that he was once on them too. I will also say that he is amongst a handful of the greatest players ever. Yes, he is also an ass/jerk. For that you can hate him.

Yes, I agree. He always has had those skills; but he cheated. He cheated. He took steroids in a show of undeniable shitty character to hit more home runs. And I can never respect a man as a player if he so blatantly exploits the system.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
Yeah the only "sufficient" evidence you could possibly have is a failed drug test, a confession or video/audio proof. You have your little allegations that Bonds and his fans laugh at.

"His body grew, HE MUST BE ON TEH JUICE!"

"Look at his head, he on da juice"

"How is he still hitting HR's at his age? must me dat juice"

How about, "he failed a steroids drug test, he is on the juice".

That's much more better but it is too bad you would be lying straight out of your ass if you said that.

I have never lied out of my ass. The thing you fail to comprehend here Evolution, is the fact I'm not trying to win a court case. I'm stating my beliefs. I saw his change, and that was not natural. The book I mentioned before, which you tried to throw aside because it was written by reporters has damning evidence. He cheated. He abused baseball. He shouldn't be immortalized for it.

Was the "damning" evidence a failed drug test?

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
Was the "damning" evidence a failed drug test?

No. It wasn't. It was testimonies by workers at BALCO and other places saying Bonds took steroids. And if witnesses are good enough for a murder case, why are the shit in this case?

BALCO admittance isn't much more than them saying anything to stay out of jail or lose clientele. I highly doubt that athletes stroll in there and say "Hey! Shoot me up!". BALCO was a supplier, not an administer.

Why does everyone keep going back to the whole steroids issue when what I ASKED was why isn't anyone whining about steroids now that he's 1,000% clean and doing better than he has in the past few years when he was supposedly on steroids? I'd guess for the same reason every keeps ignoring the fact he was named League MVP three times before 2001 when all this shit started. He was a 9 time All Star before 2001. Is it just totally unnatural to have incredibly good years? They're afraid to be wrong, even though they don't have any proof to begin with.

While he has yet to be proven guilty, apparently proven and admitted users like Jason Giambi and Rafael Palmeiro just fall to the wayside? They're not as "evil" because they're not about to break a record? Don't be so naive as to dismiss FACTS just because you want to see an alleged cheater go down when the league has been full of them.

Originally posted by Cory Chaos
BALCO admittance isn't much more than them saying anything to stay out of jail or lose clientele. I highly doubt that athletes stroll in there and say "Hey! Shoot me up!". BALCO was a supplier, not an administer.

Why does everyone keep going back to the whole steroids issue when what I ASKED was why isn't anyone whining about steroids now that he's 1,000% clean and doing better than he has in the past few years when he was supposedly on steroids? I'd guess for the same reason every keeps ignoring the fact he was named League MVP three times before 2001 when all this shit started. He was a 9 time All Star before 2001. Is it just totally unnatural to have incredibly good years? They're afraid to be wrong, even though they don't have any proof to begin with.

While he has yet to be proven guilty, apparently proven and admitted users like Jason Giambi and Rafael Palmeiro just fall to the wayside? They're not as "evil" because they're not about to break a record? Don't be so naive as to dismiss FACTS just because you want to see an alleged cheater go down when the league has been full of them.

The only reason why he is at this point is the fact he took steroids. Don't be stupid. Steroids raise your muscle level with use, and do not need to be consistently used to keep the mass gained.

Have I ever condoned there actions? No. And that's the exact reason. He is going to break a record set by one of the greatest players, who didn't cheat at one point in his career. That IS a problem.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Yes, I agree. He always has had those skills; but he cheated. He cheated. He took steroids in a show of undeniable shitty character to hit more home runs. And I can never respect a man as a player if he so blatantly exploits the system.

While I don't share your disdain for Bonds, unfortunately (for you and your kind, Ro), it comes to having the burden of proof. And yes, while you and I personally feel that he has taken them, and there seems to be plenty of circumstancial evidence to back it up, it really means nothing.

...just accept it for what it is. Enjoy it for what it is...watching one of the greatest players ever break a hallowed milestone. And maybe 3 months from now, 2 years from now, 15 years from now, there will be enough evidence, or something will come out to convict him. It may NEVER happen too, Ro. If it doesn't, you and your kind will really have a bitter pill to swallow.

..unusual way to look at it, but it works for me. 😉

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
No. It wasn't. It was testimonies by workers at BALCO and other places saying Bonds took steroids. And if witnesses are good enough for a murder case, why are the shit in this case?

exactly.They are ruining the image of baseball by allowing Bonds to continue to play.Also in a sporting magazine they showed just recently,they showed a pic of Bonds face from the mid 90's and a pic of his face in the 2000's,the pic of his face from the mid 90's,showed his face to be normal average size,the pic from the 2000's showed his face far much bigger than that.

They said in that article that there are only two ways for a persons face to get so big like that over a course of a few years.One is to have this disease they mentioned where it makes your head,hands and feet very enlarged,Andre the Giant had it,the other way to get a head is as enlarge as Bonds has gotten since the mid 90's,is it happens when you take steroids.those are the ONLY two ways that its humanly possible to get your head that much bigger.well we know that Bonds doesnt have that disease,so anybody with any logic and common sense would know its from steroids. 🙄 The Bonds lovers in san fran are a disgrace to baseball for admiring him.

Originally posted by wuTa
I could be wrong, but I believe Palmero was caught before Canseco's book was out. But Canseco is a joke, wifebeater, and a rat. He didn't write a book for people to know the truth, he wrote a book to try and make money off something that may or may not be true. I don't think Canseco was ever on a team with Bonds or Sosa so I don't see how he would know about them shooting up other than through second hand information. Anyways, my point is Canseco's credibility is worth as much as his defense.

Yeah you are wrong because Cansecos book came out shortly just before the baseball season began in 2005 and it wasnt till later on in that season that Palmero tested positive for steroid use.Hey I dont like Canseco either,cant stand the guy.But he's got nothing to hide now since he is out of baseball so he's spilling the beans now and the players hate him for knarking on them.No he was never on the same team as either Sosa or Bonds but your forgetting that Oakland whom Canseco played for,is just right across the bay from san francisco,a very short drive.So he had plenty of times obviously to hang out and party with Bonds and some of the other players on the Giants.

Also you must know by now from all the media broadcasts about it that one of the other players he mentioned in his book besides Palmero and Bonds that he had knowledge of doing steroids with,is that othe name I mentioned,Jason Giambi.He has also been saying latley that he knowingly did steroids and that the players and the commissioner should have stepped forward back then and confessed and apologized to the fans for it.Giambi seems to agree with me that because they didnt,they have tarnished the game of baseball. Surley you must be aware of Giambis statements he has been making to the press? First Canseco mentions Plameros name as someone who did them,he later on tests positive for it-it was all over the news back then about how Canseco was right about him in his book.NOW after writing in that book 2 years ago that Jason Giambi did it,Giambi is NOW confessing he did it as well.Its so obvious that Bonds knowingly did steroids just like Palmero and Giambi did and knew they were doing it.

Yup, they should DEFINITELY ban Bonds from baseball because his head got bigger. 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

The ignorance in this thread is amusing.

another Bond worshipper.Thats not what I said. they should ban him because he cheated.only a moron wouldnt realise that. 🙄

Originally posted by Mr Parker
another Bond worshipper.Thats not what I said. they should ban him because he cheated.only a moron wouldnt realise that. 🙄

We need the evidence though, Mr. Parker. I do think he's taken them, but until there is a shred of concrete proof, there is nothing.

Originally posted by BobbyD
We need the evidence though, Mr. Parker. I do think he's taken them, but until there is a shred of concrete proof, there is nothing.

Uh, he admitted to a Grand Jury under oath that he 'unknowningly' took the Clear & Cream Steroid and thought it was flax-oil. Now if you are naive to think he didn't know what he was taking, then I don't know what to tell you.

Bonds admitted it under oath cause he didn't want to get his ass thrown in jail for perjury, just like why Sammy Sosa couldn't speak any English the day of the Senate Hearing in March 2005, and McGwire only wanting to talk about the future that same day.

These guys are not stupid, they know the law, and all baseball had to do was get them under oath, and they would have sang like Canaries. And for the record, Bonds is doing Human Growth Hormones, which is impossible to detect by MLB because that requires a blood test, and they are only allowed to get a yurin sample by the Players Association rules, so that is why nobody this season has been flagged for 'Steroid' Use.

These guys (Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro), Bud Selig, and Donald Fehr, have ruined the last great thing Baseball had on all the other sports: History and the record book. Even Football doesn't have the history that Baseball possesses as we can have a conversation about Cy Young, Walter Johnson, and Honus Wagner, and they haven't played in almost 100 years!!!

Bonds will break Aarons record, and then the greatest 2 records in baseball will be tainted and nobody will care anymore. He will go to the HOF someday, cause they will never prove he did Steroids, and you will have this huge * in the minds of any fan that lived through this period of baseball.

The most tragic thing about Bonds is he was a HOF before he started taking Steroids in 2000! In the early 90's, he was the best player, and he probably would have ended up between 500-600 Homeruns if he ended his career clean. But he saw McGwire get all the glory in 1998, and didn't get voted to the All-Century team, and so he turned to Steroids to beef up his numbers, numbers that were already HOF worthy! That is some serious irony!

the very fact that there is such a split in opinion has ALREADY ruined the run for the record. you cannot mention bonds and NOT think of steroids, whether you believe he did them or not. the taint will be there forever, and that in itself is sad. perhaps sports' greatest record is about to fall and all anyone can say is -- he cheated, or, no he did not cheat.

regardless of what you believe, there is no denying the ugliness associated with bonds.

and he was disliked enormously BEFORE he hit the juice. this whole fiasco simply added one more reason for people to dislike him and his 'me before the team' attitude. personally, i will be very sad when he breaks the record. he's not a good person, he is a liar and a cheater. baseball has it's share of these types, but they don't own the record bonds will. he's not a role model, he's a selfish jack ass who was good enough to get to the hall without the juice. i can only hope that someday evidence does come to light that will allow us to permanently attach an asterisk to his record. and even if he is proven someday to have NOT taken the 'roids, it wouldn't alleviate my disdain for him a single bit, nor would i be less sad that he owns the homerun record.

Originally posted by chewy16

The most tragic thing about Bonds is he was a HOF before he started taking Steroids in 2000! In the early 90's, he was the best player, and he probably would have ended up between 500-600 Homeruns if he ended his career clean. But he saw McGwire get all the glory in 1998, and didn't get voted to the All-Century team, and so he turned to Steroids to beef up his numbers, numbers that were already HOF worthy! That is some serious irony!

Well said.

Originally posted by wuTa
He does have a giant head though, I mean c'mon, that thing is ****in huge!!! It's like he is a human BobbleHead Doll.

yeah unless you were an idiot,you would know that came from steroids. 🙄 as i pointed out earlier which was obviously ignored,there are only TWO ways of getting a head that big from the time when his head USED to be normal size and now GIANT size.1.Through a disease like the same one Andre the giant had,or from using steroids.We know that Bonds doesnt that have that disease so only an idiot would not figure it out that its from steroids. 🙄

Originally posted by leonidas
the very fact that there is such a split in opinion has ALREADY ruined the run for the record. you cannot mention bonds and NOT think of steroids, whether you believe he did them or not. the taint will be there forever, and that in itself is sad. perhaps sports' greatest record is about to fall and all anyone can say is -- he cheated, or, no he did not cheat.

regardless of what you believe, there is no denying the ugliness associated with bonds.

and he was disliked enormously BEFORE he hit the juice. this whole fiasco simply added one more reason for people to dislike him and his 'me before the team' attitude. personally, i will be very sad when he breaks the record. he's not a good person, he is a liar and a cheater. baseball has it's share of these types, but they don't own the record bonds will. he's not a role model, he's a selfish jack ass who was good enough to get to the hall without the juice. i can only hope that someday evidence does come to light that will allow us to permanently attach an asterisk to his record. and even if he is proven someday to have NOT taken the 'roids, it wouldn't alleviate my disdain for him a single bit, nor would i be less sad that he owns the homerun record.

very well said Leonidas. 👆 I could not have said it better myself.I sure hope that AROD someday breaks Bonds record.I still would think of Babe Ruth as the true homerun king but it wouldnt bother me if AROD broke Aarons record like it does with Bonds because AROD,while an unlikeable guy as well,I would like to see him break Bonds record because at least he is not a cheater.I cant believe people around here defend Bonds so adamanetly either. 🙄