Ahh - the Janus era. Wonderful times, wonderful times. Debating with old Janus, Fishy and the others. I remember the times when you could bust into the forums, whisper Revan! and a hushed silence would ensue; the debate was over. Those were the days to be frank. Now, who's this? This Advent-era guy (guessing he's called Advent), might like debating with facts and evidence but really, these are simply tools for dealing with abstract concepts.
Now from what I remember, as I've pretty much vacated these boards now, Lightsnake arrived and demanded factual proof for literally every single statement and assumption made. No problem, Lightsnake is/was a nice guy (is he still about?) and he had some very nice posts.
Now, this is all well and good if you take this lot seriously, however, if you take all this ficitonal gladitorial conbat stuff seriously, in my opinion, you got something missing up there. Now what made me stop posting quite a bit in this board was that it literally became a game of reciting Wikipedia or similar, quoting sources and really making something as engaging and fun a saga as Star Wars turn into the equivalant as a lecture on the industrial revolution and how it affected the rising price of first class stamps in yorkshire during the latter half of the 19th century. Interesting eh?
What this forums lacks, I believe (just my take on things you understand) , is those strange entertaining posts which the so called Janus-era had in abundance. Now, what used to matter was a persons conviction to an argument, their own intepretation on a character, the conclusions they drew, the questions they asked and the execution of their argument.
It did not matter if they were wrong or not, someone could come up with the most ludicrous statement in the world, and through their own posts, they could really show their enthusiasm for the pop culture phenomenom that is the Star Wars saga. I don't post on forums dictated by a dogmatic, dreary use of source exposition, that just isn't entertaining in any way. Instead, I enjoy nostalgia, humour and a couple of people like myself who really do not take all this shizzle seriously.
Long live the Janus-era.
I just cant understand how Marka Ragnos has fanboys, the guy appears in a couple of comics, on couple of pages as a Force ghost and in the game Jedi Academy, only at the end, where he gets pwnd by padawan Jaden, i can understand people liking Kit Fisto or other background Jedi, Ekar Kun, Revan..., and other people who had an appearance in EU, but Marka Ragnos, i just don't understand it.
That's an interesting outlook on the 'situation', Exanda. Advent is a girl, by the way.
Debating with old Janus, Fishy and the others. I remember the times when you could bust into the forums, whisper Revan! and a hushed silence would ensue; the debate was over. Those were the days to be frank. Now, who's this? This Advent-era guy (guessing he's called Advent), might like debating with facts and evidence but really, these are simply tools for dealing with abstract concepts.
That's stupid. What is debating if not with the use of logic and evidence? No, the Antedivulians (most of them, at least) simply argued senselessly and 98% of their posts were composed of insults. I recall when one of them directly implied that Lightsnake needed to commit suicide. Such things aren't to be taken lightly, nor is there anything funny about the situation. Stupid things like that is what degraded my respect for the lot of them, and gave me the conclusion that they really have no passion in life beyond trying to make themselves feel almighty over the Internet.
Really, your entire perception of debating is confusing. You condemn us for using logic and evidence to decide debates rather than outright insults? Nice. You clearly aren't a debater, are you?
In fact, your entire response was rather hypocritical and contradicting. They rarely debated, but bashed. Since this particular forum was created with debating in mind, I'd say we're the ones who are actually living up to the purpose, not the members of the Janus-era.
Well, I think for the most part members a few months ago actually had a FAR better idea of how powerful each character is in relation to one another than people do now. And there was better debators; no questioning that. However, we're nowadays simply far more informed than we were back then. I'd be very surprised if Janus, IKC, or Faunus had even half of the SW books or comics simply because they're poor college kids who can't afford them.
Basically they're are plenty of notions around nowadays that are as ridiculous as any I've seen here before (with the exception of Revan pwning all. Guys like Emperor Revan claimed he'd pwn NJO Luke and still probably would). These include but aren't limited to ROTS Sidious being better than guys like Bane, ROTS Anakin in "the zone" (anyone else hear how retarded this sounds?) being one of the greatest lightsaber users ever, ect. The "big dogs" that we have now are slowly but surely becoming no different than the "big dogs" from the past. With few exceptions, if any, no one still around knew Janus or the other "Antedivulians" before they before they took charge of the debates.
BTW, I personally hate the term Antedivulians. Can anyone even give a solid list of who it includes?
Originally posted by exanda kane
Top marks for having no sense of humour then Gideon.
Nice rebuttle, Exanda. Thank you for answering my question ('are you a debater?'😉. Likewise, it proves how ignorant you are about me, because the truth is, I have a prevalent sense of humor. Why not ask anyone who actually pays attention to these forums? I joke with everyone quite often. The difference is, when I debate - y'know, argue facts, evidence to prove a point - the discussion cannot be dictated by a sense of humor or a desire to insult the opposition.
Well, I think for the most part members a few months ago actually had a FAR better idea of how powerful each character is in relation to one another than people do now.
That's just silly; Janus was one of the smartest people I've ever encountered, and some of things that he argued for or against was pure bullshit. Seriously: Dooku and Yoda being equals? Dooku being more powerful than Sidious? Darth Bandon being more powerful than Sidious? Marka Ragnos being able to own everybody without the use of all of his limbs?
Really, Glentract, and you credit them with having 'a FAR better idea of how powerful each character is in relation to one another than people do now?'
How about backing that up?
And there was better debators; no questioning that.
I strongly disagree, having seen the best of both. Janus and the rest might be smarter (again, they're a group of near-genii), but better debaters? Hardly. Pit Advent up against any of them, and she'd own them all. Why? 'Cuz she debates logically, giving her a distinct advantage.
However, we're nowadays simply far more informed than we were back then. I'd be very surprised if Janus, IKC, or Faunus had even half of the SW books or comics simply because they're poor college kids who can't afford them.
This isn't necessarily true. I have never come close to rivalling any of the Antedivulians in sheer Star Wars knowledge. The only comics I've read are the ones I've had to in order to debate the material. Since I argue mostly movie stuff, that means I'm limited in my comic book experience. The difference is, I've put my limited knowledge to better use than they have put theirs.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Basically they're are plenty of notions around nowadays that are as ridiculous as any I've seen here before (with the exception of Revan pwning all. Guys like Emperor Revan claimed he'd pwn NJO Luke and still probably would). These include but aren't limited to ROTS Sidious being better than guys like Bane, ROTS Anakin in "the zone" (anyone else hear how retarded this sounds?) being one of the greatest lightsaber users ever, ect. The "big dogs" that we have now are slowly but surely becoming no different than the "big dogs" from the past. With few exceptions, if any, no one still around knew Janus or the other
The main difference between the "big dogs" of today and the big dogs of yesteryear is that today, the "uber" characters have some solid canonical backing. The evidence for the ancient sith amounted to little more than a handful (by that I mean less than 10) quotes and one impressive force feat, that was the causing of a supernova. At least with Luke and Sidious there are quotes and feats that back up the hype.
Originally posted by Gideon
That's just silly; Janus was one of the smartest people I've ever encountered, and some of things that he argued for or against was pure bullshit. Seriously: Dooku and Yoda being equals? Dooku being more powerful than Sidious? Darth Bandon being more powerful than Sidious? Marka Ragnos being able to own [B]everybody without the use of all of his limbs?Really, Glentract, and you credit them with having 'a FAR better idea of how powerful each character is in relation to one another than people do now?'
How about backing that up?
I strongly disagree, having seen the best of both. Janus and the rest might be smarter (again, they're a group of near-genii), but better debaters? Hardly. Pit Advent up against any of them, and she'd own them all. Why? 'Cuz she debates logically, giving her a distinct advantage.
This isn't necessarily true. I have never come close to rivalling any of the Antedivulians in sheer Star Wars knowledge. The only comics I've read are the ones I've had to in order to debate the material. Since I argue mostly movie stuff, that means I'm limited in my comic book experience. The difference is, I've put my limited knowledge to better use than they have put theirs. [/B]
Quite frankly, I have no intention to debate you over anything in this thread. Technically this should be closed. Everything has to become a debate now; why can't anyone have normal conversation anymore.
Quite frankly, I have no intention to debate you over anything in this thread.
Why not, Glentract? Certainly, if you're right, you have every single reason - and the means required - to adequetly prove your point. Unless, of course, you know my point is better.
Technically this should be closed. Everything has to become a debate now; why can't anyone have normal conversation anymore.
This is a discussion in which differing opinions are given. I gave an opinion, you disagreed, so I respond, and you suddenly want to stop it entirely. Don't make a claim if you can't back it up, Glentract.
Being mentioned as more powerful than Bane is quite simply not proof. Sidious has never showed himself to be stronger than Bane. I do not believe Bane to be very powerful himself in the grandscheme (below people including but not limited to Luke, Jacen, Kyp, Exar, Ragnos, Sadow, DE Sidious), but he is above ROTS Sidious, who quite frankly doesn't get all that powerful until years after ROTS.
Originally posted by Gideon
Nice rebuttle, Exanda. Thank you for answering my question ('are you a debater?'😉. Likewise, it proves how ignorant you are about me, because the truth is, I have a prevalent sense of humor. Why not ask anyone who actually pays attention to these forums? I joke with everyone quite often. The difference is, when I debate - y'know, argue facts, evidence to prove a point - the discussion cannot be dictated by a sense of humor or a desire to insult the opposition.
You need more evidence with your cup of tea kid? More proof in the old ash tray there? If people result to gaining confidence, self esteem or god help us, an ego in real life through disputing the most trivial and moot points, then good for them, I am glad, however, I really do pity them. You call me ignorant, a baseless fact, and do I mind? No I do not, as I am quite aware I have taken no measures to find out who you are. Likewise, I would love to see the humour you might inject into a post, yet on evidence of your previous efforts, I see the human equivilant of a very slow going egg timer looking back at me.
Please, do not embarass yourself by feeling the need to assure fellow posters that you are in fact, a very socially active and confident being, but please, take this business less seriously. Debate when the need arises, not when you feel the world warrants an interrogation. Write to entertain and inform, to humour, do not write to lecture, to argue. Star Wars is meant to be enjoyed, not preached, and I know I'd rather be the italian philosopher from 16th century Renaissance Venice smokin' opium than the ill fated nuclear physician from some military installation in northern europe.
Originally posted by Gideon
Why not, Glentract? Certainly, if you're right, you have every single reason - and the means required - to adequetly prove your point. Unless, of course, you know my point is better.This is a discussion in which differing opinions are given. I gave an opinion, you disagreed, so I respond, and you suddenly want to stop it entirely. Don't make a claim if you can't back it up, Glentract.
Sorry, but no. You made a statement, I made a statement. That's where it should have ended. Asking me for proof on this is just plain ridiculous. I never asked, and never will ask, you to back up your stance on this. I'd be appreciate it if you'd do the same for me.
Um, no, Glentract, sorry. Direct canon declares Palpatine stronger. That alone defeats anything you can say. And we're talking TPM-ROTS period. I'm sorry, but Palpatine and Yoda are simply quite above him. What's he done that's above them?
Nothing.
BTW, nice to talk to you again Lightsnake, it's been a while.
When does direct canon declare Palpatine stronger? I'm sorry, but I must have missed that. Please provide.
What's Bane done? For starters, he moved a moon. Second, with one exception (and this was when he was still far from how powerful he would eventually become) he could rape anyone alive no wuestions asked. At no other time period in all of Star Wars in which there is a credible Jedi Order and a credible Sith Order is there ever such a large gap between the first and second most powerful person around.