wasnt spiderman radiating kryptonite during that time or some sorta radiation that weakened superman........stop taking things out of context.
Clayface should be stronger then venom and more durable he also has his shapeshifting powers. nothing venom can do to win that i see here, maybe that venom crap that he did to sandman would work but sandman should have just seperated that infected part from his body.
Originally posted by batdude123Your logic = 👇 Tell me then how the hell are we supposed to know character's durability if everytime someone takes punch you THINK he's not supposed to take you call it bad writing. Your Bruce example has nothing to de here because he's a human, a comicbook human, but still a HUMAN, so yes we can tell that he should die from class 100 punch. Venom is an alien symbiote that merged with a human, tell me please how do we figure if he's supposed or not supposed to take class 100 unless we have like 100 examples from comicbook that prove that he can?
Batman took MANY of Superman's absolute hardest shots in the Sacrifice arc and survived. You and I know both know it should take one hit from Superman to vaporize Bruce.
Stuff like that happens [B]all the time in comics. What we have to do is differentiate the bullshit from the logic.[/B]
Originally posted by batdude123You just showed your complete ignorance of the character. First of all I never compared Venom's durability with Superman's. Second, show me scan of Spider-man knocking out Venom-Brock with his bare hands without use of sonics, fire or some plot device and I'll give you a candy. Seriously, I dare you.
Like Superman for example. The guy can fly through stars and take planet destroying blasts from ground zero without a scratch. We see him constantly do stuff like this. Can you see Venom doing the same things? With regards to the stuff you've said Eddy has taken, I've also seen him brought to his knees by a flurry of punches from Spider-man.
Originally posted by batdude123
Of course Supergirl can survive worse than a punch from Clayface. However, it was enough to stagger and hurt her.
Originally posted by batdude123
Now, ask yourself a question. Is Venom as durable as Supergirl? The answer is a resounding "hell no." And you think Venom is going to take multiple strikes from Clayface without being hurt at all? Laughable.
Originally posted by batdude123Which is bull. They both can move at speed close to speed of light. Unless of course you claim he's that fast. Even Flash gets hit all the time, doesn't mean that every goon that hits him can move as fast as he can.
Yet, Clayface has hit Supergirl and J'onn before. Both are immensely faster than Venom.
Originally posted by batdude123
If he grows to the size of a 20 story building, hitting Venom won't be that hard.
Originally posted by batdude123When Clayface learns to cut through titanium metal like through butter let me know. Untill that happens, enjoy...
Your comparing a stabbing from Clayface to a stabbing from Wolverine?[B]
Originally posted by batdude123Venom doesn't require sleep, he doesn't need food, he doesn't need to breathe (which you had no idea about), he can keep fighting for days or even weeks non-stop before starts to tire, which means he can fight for that long at his full speed which is >>>>>>> Clayface's reaction time, let alone speed. And he can become complitley invicible by camoufladging himself. So far, I haven't heard a single good reason how the hell is CF gonna hit him, except that he's big...
[B]
CF would smash Venom without much trouble at all. It doesn't matter how long it takes him to connect or hit him multiple times, but at that size, it's inevitable.
Originally posted by batdude123This is a vs forum, Venom can do anything he wants within his abilities, and using camoufladge when it's convinient is one of them.
Venom is not gonna hide like a pussy the entire fight. That just wouldn't be in character for Brock. So that scenario is out.
Originally posted by batdude123
I'm listening.
Originally posted by batdude123
An INCREDIBLY false statement. Of course he can hurt Venom for God's sake. And Venom wouldn't be able to take all that many shots from Clayface shaped like enormous daggers.
Originally posted by batdude123Unlike taking dozen attacks on regular basis(which proves character's durability), hitting light-fast characters from time to time IS made for the sake of interesting fight scenes, especially if the character has no speed feats to back it up. Again, Clayface is NOWHERE near as fast as Venom.
He's hit A LOT faster characters than Venom before.
Originally posted by batdude123If you think that taking all that from J'onn would make him an equel to clayface, then I have better things to do than answering this kinda questions, especially since Martian manhunter has nothing to do with this fight. Besides, Venom has a powerfull telepathy himself.
Alright, imagine if you will Martian Manhunter. Now, I want you to take away the invisibility, intangibility, telepathy, and Martian vision.
Do you think Venom could stalemate him then?.
If you say yes, you know you'll sound like a gigantic Venom fanboy.
If you say no, then you're just being hypocritical because when you take away the stuff I mentioned above from J'onn, he's the same as Clayface..
Originally posted by batdude123Um... actually no. Because I was judging by my personal experience. When I first read about Clayface, water was the first thing that came to my mind, and I'm not making this up. And I was a kid at that time, and I can't say I'm that smart, especially comparing to Eddie Brock. So figuring that water would work is just a matter of time. Of short time...
And I think you're just [B]wanting Brock to be able to figure out the water weakness. That's about as justified as me saying CF will be able to figure out the sonic weakness for Venom.[/B]
Originally posted by batdude123
Venom isn't stalemating Clayface. Clayface for the win.
Thanks as always the proof is back. I was about to bring in some scans. Venom fought Juggernaut, The Hulk and even Ghost Rider and he is still alive. Clayface might do something but I don't think he could do enough demage to kill Venom. Not that he has all the upgrades (merging with Carnage and the clone Venom) and it is Brock.
Which venom?
Classic or Ultimate? Well, either would stomp clayface into the ground. Classic has his strength speed, webs, stealth and binocular vision. Ultimate has that jumping powers, tentacles, binocular vision, wall crawling, and he must feed to stay alive. And if it is ultimate, well, he is much bigger than regular, and probably stronger. Classic would kick ass too because he is faster, he has excellent vision, meaning he can see in the dark. Also, he can ambush clayface.
PS Venom would kick his censored
Sam, your logic is just plain faulty. I could also show you at least 100 showings of Batman taking class 100 punches and keep on fighting as well. As you and I have both established, Batman is just a human being who shouldn’t be able to take that kind of punishment. You asked me how I figure Venom is not supposed to take class 100 punches. My reasoning is simple. He’s had PLENTY of instances, whether you want to admit it or not, where he’s been hurt by FAR less than a class 100 character. Sure, he’s had some great showings insofar as durability is concerned, but so have a lot of characters who don’t have invulnerability. If Venom is a consistent “take class 100 type punches and keep on going” type of a guy, then he wouldn’t be harmed by anything less. We both know that’s not the case. So, either Venom has the durability of someone like Thor ( 😂 ), or (like all other characters) he has some insane durability feats that just plain don’t make sense.
So, hell yes Clayface can harm Venom. He may not take him down with one punch, but that’s moot at this point. Payne can certainly harm Venom. It’s complete bullshit how you say Venom could take continual blows from Clayface and laugh them off like nothing.
Trying to deface my knowledge on Venom in order to try to boost your argument is a sign of desperation. I could just as easily say your knowledge on Clayface is based off of the cartoon. I know plenty about Venom, and have many of his appearances. Granted, I may not have EVERY one of his showings in my collection, but I have enough to know that what you’re trying to sell is bullshit. You may not have directly compared his durability to Superman’s, but what you’re trying to say to me is pretty damn close. You’re seriously saying Venom laughing off Juggy’s and Hulk’s punches is logical? When, at the same time, you’re saying Venom is not as durable as Superman? The hypocrisy in that reasoning is astounding. We all remember that Spider-man kicked the crap out of Firelord before. Shit happens in comic books that shouldn’t happen.
Hmm, you mean besides the fact that Clayface has leveled entire buildings with a single blow, hurt J’onn, etc.? I wouldn’t call it that bad writing when Clayface has some insane strength feats. For right now, I’ll just say he’s strong enough to hurt Venom with one strike.
Let me get this straight, you show me all these scans of Venom being hit by some slow ass people, yet you’re trying to convince me Clayface could never in a million years hit Brock? Irony is a b*tch, huh? 😆 You just contradicted yourself in a major way, pal.
And who even says it has to be a strike? With a single touch, Payne can burn and melt Venom. What’s one of Venom’s weaknesses? High temperatures? Check.
Also, you say Hulk took down Venom with a thunderclap. Cool. Why exactly can’t Clayface use a barrage of thunderclaps to take Venom down? This way, he doesn’t even have to touch Venom in order to beat him.
Now, when you say you “read” about Clayface as a kid, don’t you mean “watched him on the animated series?” Because you sure as hell post about CF like that’s the case. Cassius Payne, the current Clayface, doesn’t react to water in the same fashion as the other Clayface’s did. His mom and dad were the 3rd and 4th Clayfaces, so he inherited traits from both. A small amount of water in a forest environment won’t take Payne out. Unless Venom goads him into a lake or some shit like that, he isn’t gonna beat CF. And this whole idea is an assumption on your part in the first place.
Clayface beats the shit out of Venom. There’s nothing Brock can do. End of discussion.
Originally posted by batdude123And you say that MY logic is faulty. You insist that it's either GOD-LIKE durabilty or normal human durability, no other possibilities. You're right I never compared Venom's durability to Superman's or Thor's and you'll never hear that from me. You only want me to do that so you can bring lots of arguments how "faulty" my logic is.
Sam, your logic is just plain faulty. I could also show you at least 100 showings of Batman taking class 100 punches and keep on fighting as well. As you and I have both established, Batman is just a human being who shouldn’t be able to take that kind of punishment. You asked me how I figure Venom is not supposed to take class 100 punches. My reasoning is simple. He’s had PLENTY of instances, whether you want to admit it or not, where he’s been hurt by FAR less than a class 100 character. Sure, he’s had some great showings insofar as durability is concerned, but so have a lot of characters who don’t have invulnerability. If Venom is a consistent “take class 100 type punches and keep on going” type of a guy, then he wouldn’t be harmed by anything less. We both know that’s not the case. So, either Venom has the durability of someone like Thor ( 😂 ), or (like all other characters) he has some insane durability feats that just plain don’t make sense.
Originally posted by batdude123
So, hell yes Clayface can harm Venom. He may not take him down with one punch, but that’s moot at this point. Payne can certainly harm Venom. It’s complete bullshit how you say Venom could take continual blows from Clayface and laugh them off like nothing.
Originally posted by batdude123I didn't even have to "deface" anything since you demonstrated your lack of knowledge about him yourself and more than on one ocasion. You claimed Spider-man koed him with nothing but his own brute strength, you had no idea that Venom doesn't need to breathe and you still claim that he gets BEATEN all the time by less than class 100 punches. Seriously, how was that an act of desperation or an attempt to boost my argument?? I simply stated obvious things.
Trying to deface my knowledge on Venom in order to try to boost your argument is a sign of desperation. I could just as easily say your knowledge on Clayface is based off of the cartoon. I know plenty about Venom, and have many of his appearances. Granted, I may not have EVERY one of his showings in my collection, but I have enough to know that what you’re trying to sell is bullshit.
Originally posted by batdude123Not at all. ❌ You only wanted me to state that.
You may not have directly compared his durability to Superman’s, but what you’re trying to say to me is pretty damn close.
Originally posted by batdude123Yes, it is logical. It doesn't have to be Superman-like durability to be able to take class 90-100 punches. Going to argue that as well?
You’re seriously saying Venom laughing off Juggy’s and Hulk’s punches is logical? When, at the same time, you’re saying Venom is not as durable as Superman?
Originally posted by batdude123😆 Niiiice, so now it's Firelord example, a real BIG step ahead comparing to Batman example, except Spider-man doesn't ko galactus heralds all the time, can't say the same about Venom taking class 90-100 punches.
The hypocrisy in that reasoning is astounding. We all remember that Spider-man kicked the crap out of Firelord before. Shit happens in comic books that shouldn’t happen.
Originally posted by batdude123So has Venom, twice actually. Also he destroyed an army of SONIC tanks, and it took him one punch for each.
Hmm, you mean besides the fact that Clayface has leveled entire buildings with a single blow,
Originally posted by batdude123Now YOU are comaparing Superman's punches to Clayface's. Cause J'onn could take lots of them. So yeah, bad writing. Also, don't fool yourself. It'd take more than just taking away his TP and flight for Clayface to be 1/10 as tough as him. I won't say more, just check the respect thread.
hurt J’onn, etc.?
Originally posted by batdude123And you'd be wrong, sorry. Non of his strength feats suggest that he can hurt (let alone ko) Supergirl or J'onn.
I wouldn’t call it that bad writing when Clayface has some insane strength feats. For right now, I’ll just say he’s strong enough to hurt Venom with one strike.
Originally posted by batdude123Yeah, you just owned me. Except I knew you're gonna say something like that. So what do we see? Being stabbed by Wolverine? Bad speed showing? Except he doesn't even try to dodge it cause he knows it won't hurt him a bit. Juggernaut fight? There were 3 fights actually. The one you saw was their # 1 fight where Venom had no idea whom he's fighting with and tried to overcome him physically and didn't use his speed advantage and also he was distracted by the madness virus and you can clearly see that in the scans. In their 2 further fights Juggernaut couldn't land a finger on Venom. Also how is catching bullet after it was fired controdicts my argument? And keep in mind that in vs forums we take characters at their fullest potential.(But no PIS ofcourse) In other words, sorry, but you lost this argument as well... Venom speed and reflexes >>>>>>>>>>> Clayface's.
Let me get this straight, you show me all these scans of Venom being hit by some slow ass people, yet you’re trying to convince me Clayface could never in a million years hit Brock? Irony is a b*tch, huh? 😆 You just contradicted yourself in a major way, pal.
Originally posted by batdude123Check. Just before Venom merged with his clone his resistance to fire was strong enough to take huge missiles explosions, and fire didn't seem to bother him. Now, after he merged with clone his resistance has grown to the point where heat doesn't bother him at all. I can provide some scans if you like.
And who even says it has to be a strike? With a single touch, Payne can burn and melt Venom. What’s one of Venom’s weaknesses? High temperatures? Check.
Originally posted by batdude123It took HULK to thunderclap him in his FACE TWICE to weaken him a LITTLE. I'd like to see scans of Clayface doing thunderclaps, and even if he could (which I doubt) his thunderclaps >>>>>>>>>>> Hulk's.
Also, you say Hulk took down Venom with a thunderclap. Cool. Why exactly can’t Clayface use a barrage of thunderclaps to take Venom down? This way, he doesn’t even have to touch Venom in order to beat him.
Originally posted by batdude123Actually I don't even remember Clayface episodes in the toon, I think I only saw one episode and LONG time ago. I judge by his comic showings, otherwise I wouldn't know if he's supposed to hurt chars with superman-like durability or not. And it doesn't take a lake, in any forest there's enough sourse of water to get the job done. Seriously, in ANY. It might take Brock some time to find it, but since he could go on without food or sleep for days, he would find it eventually.
Now, when you say you “read” about Clayface as a kid, don’t you mean “watched him on the animated series?” Because you sure as hell post about CF like that’s the case. Cassius Payne, the current Clayface, doesn’t react to water in the same fashion as the other Clayface’s did. His mom and dad were the 3rd and 4th Clayfaces, so he inherited traits from both. A small amount of water in a forest environment won’t take Payne out. Unless Venom goads him into a lake or some shit like that, he isn’t gonna beat CF. And this whole idea is an assumption on your part in the first place.
Originally posted by batdude123Yeah, right. Except Clayface can't see Venom, and even if he could see him he wouldn't stand a chance to catch Venom and even if he could catch Venom he wouldn't be able to hurt Venom. Yeah, take away ALL these "ifs" and Clayface wins. 🙄 Otherwise, it's stalemate or Venom. Now THIS is end of discussion.
Clayface beats the shit out of Venom. There’s nothing Brock can do. End of discussion.
Originally posted by Sam Z
And you say that MY logic is faulty. You insist that it's either GOD-LIKE durabilty or normal human durability, no other possibilities. You're right I never compared Venom's durability to Superman's or Thor's and you'll never hear that from me. You only want me to do that so you can bring lots of arguments how "faulty" my logic is.
I never said that. Ever. OF COURSE there are certain degrees of durability, Sam. I’m not trying to say to you that Batman’s durability is as good as Venom’s, nor will I ever say that. However, the fact of the matter is that you keep insisting Venom taking punches from Juggernaut without even wincing is good writing. Are you starting to see the logical fallacies in your statements? I hope you realize Thor has been punked physically by Classic Juggernaut before. So, if you claim that Venom laughing off punches from the likes of Juggernaut is good writing, yet in turn say that Venom is NOT as durable as someone like Thor… 😬 The double standards you’re convening in your posts are down right facetious and just don’t make sense.
Originally posted by Sam Z
It's not gonna work that way, you claim Venom is not supposed to take class 100 punches and live after that, I claim that he can take many and keep fighting. I prove my point with lots of scans. All you say is that he was BEATEN by Spider-man before, so I dared you to show me scans which wasn't really fair to you, since I know for a fact that there AREN'T ANY. Yes he does say "ouch" and "ah" sometimes, but so do EVERONE else, even Juggernaut sometime (which doesn't make sense). If a 3 year old kid kicked me in the knee I'd say "ouch" as well doesn't mean I'm terribly hurt and about to fall uncouncious. So there, Venom has LOTS of appearances and the thing is that he was [B]NEVER KOed with punches and kicks alone, without use of fire, sonics or plot device. And that's not only true when he fights with Black Cat, Spider-man, Daredevil or Carnage but also true when he fights with class 80-90-100 characters (which happened dozen times). Want to prove me wrong, go ahead, but I know you won't find any scans.
So, you lost this argument. [/B]
I never said he shouldn’t “live” after a punch from someone like Colossus or Juggernaut, merely that he should be dazed and hurt.
And please, don’t twist and weave my statements to make your case look better than it actually is. I never said anything about Spider-man “knocking out” Venom. I merely said Venom has been “brought to his knees” by punches from Spider-man. As in, injured, beaten down, got his ass whooped, etc. You don’t have to be unconscious to lose a fight.
You want proof? Here’s your proof:
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01615ld8.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01616lx2.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01617mn6.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01618od4.jpg
If that’s what you’d call being hit by a three year old… I’d like to meet this kid. 😆
Originally posted by Sam Z
Ahem, as been PROVEN above, Venom can take Clayface attacks, and LOTS of them without being harmed. So let's just get over this topic and get to the actual fight.
I didn't even have to "deface" anything since you demonstrated your lack of knowledge about him yourself and more than on one ocasion. You claimed Spider-man koed him with nothing but his own brute strength, you had no idea that Venom doesn't need to breathe and you still claim that he gets BEATEN all the time by less than class 100 punches. Seriously, how was that an act of desperation or an attempt to boost my argument?? I simply stated obvious things.
I just proved up above that Venom can be hurt and fazed by something considerably less than a class 100 punch. And again, I never said anything about Spider-man KO’ing Venom. You‘re putting words in my mouth, Sam.
So Eddy Brock himself doesn’t need to breathe when he’s attached to the symbiote? Sue me. I didn’t know ONE insignificant minute detail about Venom. It doesn’t mean I haven’t read about him; don’t know about him, what he’s capable of, etc. I know plenty about Venom.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Not at all. ❌ You only wanted me to state that.
So… it IS logical for Venom to laugh off Juggernaut’s punches when they have f*cked up Thor… and then say Venom’s durability isn’t as good, or better than Thor’s?
🙄
Originally posted by Sam Z
😆 Niiiice, so now it's Firelord example
Frequency doesn’t have anything to do with logic. Batman takes punches from people who should kill him all the time.
Venom is more durable than Batman, sure, but if you’re going to sit there and tell me that Venom taking shots from class 100+ level guys like NOTHING without even being fazed is logical, then you’re just spewing bullshit. Plain and simple.
Originally posted by Sam Z
So has Venom, twice actually. Also he destroyed an army of SONIC tanks, and it took him one punch for each. Now YOU are comaparing Superman's punches to Clayface's. Cause J'onn could take lots of them. So yeah, bad writing
You think so? Recently J’onn was owned by Black Adam (someone who is relatively equal to Superman in strength) in TWO punches. 🙂
Originally posted by Sam Z
Also, don't fool yourself. It'd take more than just taking away his TP and flight for Clayface to be 1/10 as tough as him. I won't say more, just check the respect thread.
😆
Sam, don’t even TRY to talk to me about J’onn knowledge. I own every single post crisis JLA arc, so I really don’t need a lecture about what he’s capable of.
What I said was, take away his flight, telepathy, invisibility, intangibility, enhanced senses, and Martian Vision, then you’d get Clayface. One of the biggest reasons J’onn is so damn powerful is because of his molecular control over his body.
Originally posted by Sam Z
And you'd be wrong, sorry. Non of his strength feats suggest that he can hurt (let alone ko) Supergirl or J'onn.
You mean besides the fact that he can alter his molecular density to an unknown extent, making him immeasurably strong and durable?
I’d refrain from using absolutes with regards to what Clayface can, and can’t do if I were you. You really don’t seem to know much of anything about Cassius.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Yeah, you just owned me. Except I knew you're gonna say something like that. So what do we see? Being stabbed by Wolverine? Bad speed showing?...
According to your logic, Venom should never be hit by the caliber of people he’s always hit by. However, he’s hit all the time by people much slower than Clayface. Hell, Cassius doesn’t even have to hit Venom in order to do damage. He can separate his body and mentally control what the mini “avatar” (so to speak) can do. He can also make the Clay bind to an object or a person and mentally control it. Or, he could flood the whole area with his living goo and burn anything on contact with his “plasma touch.”
Venom has no way of winning this fight. He has about as much of a chance in this fight as a one-legged midget against Jet Li.
Originally posted by Sam Z
It took HULK to thunderclap him in his FACE TWICE to weaken him a LITTLE. I'd like to see scans of Clayface doing thunderclaps, and even if he could (which I doubt) his thunderclaps >>>>>>>>>>> Hulk's.
ZOMG!!! Hulk had to clap a whole TWO times in order to weaken Venom!
Because we all know that’s something Clayface could never do… claps his hands hard together I mean. 🙄
Originally posted by Sam Z
Actually I don't even remember Clayface episodes in the toon, I think I only saw one episode and LONG time ago. I judge by his comic showings, otherwise I wouldn't know if he's supposed to hurt chars with superman-like durability or not. And it doesn't take a lake, in any forest there's enough sourse of water to get the job done. Seriously, in ANY. It might take Brock some time to find it, but since he could go on without food or sleep for days, he would find it eventually.
Any water that could be conjured up in a forest is insufficient to take out Cassius Payne. It would probably work against any of the other Clayfaces, but Cassius is unique in the fact that he is the offspring of two former Clayfaces. Bats has used both water and liquid nitrogen, and they’ve been completely worthless.
And this is of course based on the assumption Venom will try to find water rather than engaging Payne in a straight up fight.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Yeah, right. Except Clayface can't see Venom, and even if he could see him he wouldn't stand a chance to catch Venom and even if he could catch Venom he wouldn't be able to hurt Venom.
He doesn’t need to see Venom to flood the entire area with plasmatic goo.
Venom literally has NO WAY of winning this. Clayface every single time.
Originally posted by batdude123
You want proof? Here’s your proof:http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01615ld8.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01616lx2.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01617mn6.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01618od4.jpgIf that’s what you’d call being hit by a three year old… I’d like to meet this kid. 😆
I just wanted to point out that I do recall Spidey recieving a one-hit k.o. by Venom after that little skirmish, literally in the panels after that part of the fight.
